Evgenia Medvedeva to train under Brian Orser

[schizoanalyst]

Miscellaneous thoughts

Russian coaches and FS insiders have been trashing Duhamel/Radford for years and I didn’t see endless handwringing around here. And anyway, the level of trash talk in skating is laughably tame compared to other sports. Also, in a subjective sport, what we value and desire is constantly in flux and up for debate - we need robust debate by stakeholders, coaches, and competitors and sometimes that will necessitate criticizing others. We can always argue for more civility, but trying to institute a no-critique norm is very misguided imo.

I'm uninterested in whether Eteri is evil or mean or whatever, I don't know her so I couldn't possibly know. But she made a fool of herself and acted extremely unprofessionally. She should be embarrassed. Hopefully she’ll learn and gain some maturity.

I’m somewhat surprised Orser took on Medvedeva. I think this will be primarily an artistic pivot more than a technical pivot. I don't expect huge changes in her technique or for her to gain a 4S. Her technique could be better, and she certainly needs to adapt to her height as both her jump quality and skating skills have declined since last season (and not just from the injury, though that obviously didn’t help) - but I doubt we’ll see significant changes beyond adjustments to accommodate her growth. But I’m pleased to hear she has apparently lots of ideas about what artistic direction she wants to take her skating and hopefully with more freedom with Orser she can pursue them. There were moments in Anna Karenina where she did interesting things and I think she has decent impulses musically - but she hasn't grown substantially since her 2016 worlds skate. Those intuitions and impulses generally have to be nurtured and it’s been obvious that Eteri has little interest in nurturing that side of a skater (that is not to say no Eteri skater is artistic - it’s just she clearly isn’t all that concerned with it).

 

[chopinskate]

I'm uninterested in whether Eteri is evil or mean or whatever, I don't know her so I couldn't possibly know. But she made a fool of herself and acted extremely unprofessionally. She should be embarrassed. Hopefully she’ll learn and gain some maturity.

Lipnitskaya. Pitkeev. Medvedeva.

I'm super sorry.

 

[Tinza]

Oh please . You can stop with the "poor Russians getting bullied on" sentiment. Averbukh's programs for Med are crap, and people have been calling him out on it for the past three seasons. Orser didn't even mention his choreography, and Averbukh went and made a mountain out of nothing.

It makes me angry reading all the time Averbuhk's programs are crap, as if it's a fact. I mostly really like this programs, I still love to see Xenia Makarovas program and a lot of Evgenias programs. It's my taste and to dislike it is your taste, that's it.

 

[icetug]

Btw, do you think Borser's reaction to Kim dropping him was any better than Eteri's?

I wouldn't even compare them if it was to defend Eteri

There is one lesson Eteri could learn from Brian: how to deal with one of my students' disappointment while they lost to my another student. The more: what to do to prevent such disappointment, especially before Olympics.

 

[chopinskate]

It makes me angry reading all the time Averbuhk's programs are crap, as if it's a fact. I mostly really like this programs, I still love to see Xenia Makarovas program and a lot of Evgenias programs. It's my taste and to dislike it is your taste, that's it.

As I am one of the people who have criticized it on this thread, let me explain: He pays little attention to the music (and the choice of music isn't good in the first place, or at least not something that often suits his skaters), doesn't bring out the best qualities out of the skater, and doesn't choreograph meaningful -- or any -- choreographic passages. It's choreography for the sake of choreography, and I'd say that's very bad. You are free to like how the skater performed it, however.

 

[Mussique]

I mostly find difficult to wrap my head around that a program using "clinical death" as its theme or that has 9/11 voice recordings on it can be tasteful.
It's not even a matter of liking the choreography anymore or "your taste is different than mine". It's just disrespectful. And yes, for me, frankly unlikeable.

 

[schizoanalyst]

I mostly find difficult to wrap my head around that a program using "clinical death" as its theme or that has 9/11 voice recordings on it can be tasteful.
It's not even a matter of liking the choreography anymore or "your taste is different than mine". It's just disrespectful. And yes, for me, frankly unlikeable.

I think it's generically problematic to take any collective tragedy and try to use it for personal gain in a competitive (rather than artistic) setting. It's too close to appropriating their suffering for yourself.

I don't want to say anything is entirely off limits though but realistically some themes are impossible to confront within the confides of skating in a serious way. How could you possibly choreograph a step sequence to the audio of 9/11 first responders? If you are really going to hit the required turns for a level 4 step - it's simply not possible to assemble something that could portray that level of panic and confusion. It will necessarily appear too refined and too deliberate. It then appears kitschy - like you are using the sentimental of the moment without doing justice to it, exploiting the memory without respecting it.

 

[chopinskate]

It's also plainly weak choreography. That step sequence can be made to fit any music whatsoever. So in a way, Averbukh took the theme of 9/11, and gave so little thought to the choreography, that he can fit the footwork to any piece of music he wants. That's disrespectful AND unlikable.

If you are really going to hit the required turns for a level 4 step - it's simply not possible to assemble something that could portray that level of panic and confusion. It will necessarily appear too refined and too deliberate.

Very good take.

 

[yume]

Averbuck surely thought that he did a great job when he saw that his 9/11 program got 78 PCS.

 

[Tolstoj]

Oh please . You can stop with the "poor Russians getting bullied on" sentiment. Averbukh's programs for Med are crap, and people have been calling him out on it for the past three seasons. Orser didn't even mention his choreography, and Averbukh went and made a mountain out of nothing.

I also don't know what Orser, who has coached 2 GOATs and has a young prodigy who can also whip out quads, would have to envy about Eteri.

If anything, Eteri and Averbukh have come off this mess looking remarkably thin-skinned.

It's not a coincidence that these comments from certain coaches and choreographers intensified during the last olympic cycle when for 3-4 years Russian skaters dominated ladies figure skating. Now i'm sure someone will tell me that it is not new, the classic old bash against the champion, but they were doing that even before. i mentioned a quote from Frank Carroll from 2011.

I don't like this "it's okay to hate because we think their work is crap" either. There are a lot of people behind these skaters, behind the programs... While i do agree with you that some his programs looked forced, if you look at the athlete both Medvedeva and Lipnitskaia improved their aristry, the skating skills quite a lot working with him, so it's not all trash.

In general i think if you are directly involved with this sports and these athletes, you should watch and improve what you have instead of wasting time criticizing someone else work.

We can go on with the bash fest against Eteri, but i've never heard her attacking american / canadian skaters, and if you read my previous posts you should know i'm with Medvedeva in this case and i've nothing against Brian Orser.

I mean, maybe this has some truth. But frankly, I don't think Eteri and Averbukh getting offended has anything to do with what you're describing.

Averbukh is mad because of Brian's comments on programs. Except Brian didn't say that this is what it is for all Russians, he only repeated what Evgenia told him about how it worked with Eteri. That's not a NA criticizing Russians. Eteri is mad about Brian's comments on Trusova's quads - well like you said, he already clarified that, plus what he originally said seemed in character for me based on how he's talked about others, like Stephen, in the past. Again, not a NA criticizing Russians.

What Averbukh said is basically what Brian, or Tracy and other coaches and choreographers keep saying for a while like "Russians don't have emotions, while canadians are so free" it's totally that.

You can go on TSL and find dozens of these statements, even from recent interviews.

Thank you for such a great sensible post. Especially the last paragraph.

Should i be sensibile to the person who attacks these skaters, i don't understand your logic.

I do believe all these mean comments are just that and politicking.

 

[Shayuki]

I mostly find difficult to wrap my head around that a program using "clinical death" as its theme or that has 9/11 voice recordings on it can be tasteful.
It's not even a matter of liking the choreography anymore or "your taste is different than mine". It's just disrespectful. And yes, for me, frankly unlikeable.

That's... well, my issue with Averbukh. It seems like he feels the need to be really REALLY in your face with the themes. It's like that's the only way he could bring it across. He always need something completely obvious so that everyone will surely know what it's about - be it the voice overs, heartbeats, whatever. There's not a hint of delicacy or anything abstract or up to the imagination of the viewer. Due to this, his choreo tends to be very uninspired and "solved" the first time you watch it. There's never going to be one of those "Aah, now I understand what that is all about" moments because everything is displayed as it is and there are no additional layers of depth to it.

The most exciting part about this move is that Medvedeva might be able to really show her performing capabilities on a whole another level. The dreadful thing about it is that Averbukh might start haunting some other talented lady with his choreography.

 

[russianfan]

The dreadful thing about it is that Averbukh might start haunting some other talented lady with his choreography.

hands off Alina!

 

[yoloaxel]

hands off Alina!

I think Alina is safe with Daniil, who I think is actually pretty good! The Black Swan program was really nice

 

[jenm]

Whoaaa. I'm excited for this development in Zhenya's career. More than moving to BOrser, I'm more excited about the possibility of Zhenya collaborating with a new choreographer. Hello, new programs!!! And I mean "NEW" because she has been skating to the same choreo, just different music.

 

[OS]

It makes me angry reading all the time Averbuhk's programs are crap, as if it's a fact. I mostly really like this programs, I still love to see Xenia Makarovas program and a lot of Evgenias programs. It's my taste and to dislike it is your taste, that's it.

No need to be angry. I have a thing for Teletubbies... nobody get me either!

 

[kevinVchicago]

Averbukh's programs for Med are crap

I think you must have misspelled "amazing" [emoji3]

 

[OS]

I think you must have misspelled "amazing" [emoji3]

amazing crap works. there's crap, and there's amazing crap, it is like crap with +3 GOEs

 

[curious]

Averbuck surely thought that he did a great job when he saw that his 9/11 program got 78 PCS.

He had a great skater in med.

 

[FreyaZz]

Frankly I dislike the choreo, too. He just keeps repeating the same thing over and over again. There's no real improvement. Everything is stagnant. The saddest thing in choreo is when your choreo practically fit in all music. It explains that the choreo is generic and has no character. Of course for the people who like it, there's no problem too. Taste differs or whatever.

 

[LucyH]

I am looking forward to what her and David and Brian come up with. I loved David's EX for her for Javi's show. I am not a fan of Averbukh's stuff...