- Joined
- Dec 9, 2017
You forgot the eyebrows.
Petition for Med to train for this next season: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5aDCrYUKIMo
Evgenia Medvedeva to train under Brian Orser
- Thread starter Midnightcass
- Start date
- Status
You forgot the eyebrows.
Petition for Med to train for this next season: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5aDCrYUKIMo
- Joined
- May 4, 2018
OMG! That's so scary I couldn't go through the entire video :scard7:
And yes, the eyebrows, how could I forgot the eyebrows
I don’t think it matters how many skaters Flutz or not - it’s being done incorrectly and therefore should be penalized. Why correctly do a lutz at all if this is how we’re going to look at the problem? Why do any of the jumps correctly? This is a sport. It’s unfair to skaters who have worked hard to correctly perform a lutz, that skaters like Evgenia and others can get away with flutzing, not jumping off the toe pick etc. . If Orser is worth his salt he will work on fixing it.
- Joined
- Nov 16, 2005
Ah, I see. Not knowing the connotation in Russian, it just didn't seem that it was something that would make people think she was leaving Russia behind when I read it. I didn't mean any offense, sorry.
Well, you see, in this case, it was not rusfed that contacted Orser, was it?
NHL is heavily funded by american government? Or it is a commercial organization? Japanese shows are paid with government money?
You see, Russia is not a rich country, and for me, spending money on something an elite athlete *wants* just because its an elite athlete, while the same can be done inside Russia, is kinda... I mean, my grandma, who worked for 45 effin years, receives a US242 pension. I don't want government to spend money on coaching for athletes, they can pay for the stuff like everybody else does.
You see, one thing is to genuinely root for Zhenya.
Other thing are the users who considered Zhenya one of the overscored teenage jumping beans with muscled jumps and no artistry, and now they are suddenly rooting for Zhenya? I understand you are new and all, but by checking old threads you can actually see that many people that post here supporting Zhenya's move are the very same people who bashed her on every competition. Those people are my personal peeve, no clue whats wrong with them.
Was it just some irrational Eteri hate (like yours, for example, Eteri's methods are pretty standard, not only in FS, but also in other areas, for example rythmic gymnastics), or whatever, no clue?
As for TAT, my dear... Oh dear... I mean, do you speak russian? Do you actually listen to TAT's commentary? She is indeed knowledgeable, but massively biased - for example, there are recorded cases where she would bash a competitor just because it beat one of her favorites, and then, on the next competition, would praise the same skater for the very same things she bashed them previously, simply because on this other comp they are not threatening her favorites.
I think it's safe to assume she was in a considerable amount of pain during the Oly's given she said herself she had trouble even walking after it
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2010
Here's a thought, whenever anyone has any negative about Russia skaters/program/choreographer/coaches it does not mean they deserve to be labelled a hater. Just like there are those who have recognise flaws in any US/Canada/Japan/XYZ fed/skaters are not actually anti anything either.
That ....it is perfectly possible to recognise talent but still recognise when they have been wildly over marked/under marked, despite poor/good choreography, or do not have the level of artistry deserving of these marks etc.. . Everyone should able to be encouraged watch, learn and think for themselves, share their thoughts, even disagree at times, otherwise why bother watching, why participating in a discussion board, you might as well just blindly trust the federation judges, and read the protocols only.
Knowing what we know about human nature, psychology, politics, culture, and the social aspect of incentivised federation judging, the flaws of the system is easily vulnerable for manipulation, which goes against the principle of COP that is suppose to quantifying everything with accuracy, but is rarely challenged except by those who care and knows enough to share.
Frankly, this sport has more than 50 shades of grey, hues and all shades of rainbows. So stop putting people in a box to serve your very narrow black and white mindset, which was probably what went wrong in the first place.
Hmmm, at this point, I wonder if you ever read my post (or you read it and recognized... someone).
People are entitled to have their own opinions. They are free to like Zhenya or dislike Zhenya.
On the other hand, people who hated Zhenya before and suddenly love her now totally deserve to be labeled, and such people exist.
Please stop putting people in a box to serve your own narrative.
- Joined
- Apr 20, 2018
I am aware that coaches use methods like Eteri. I endured this (MUCH lower level, but I see the signs). I have reasons which you may see as irrational but they aren’t anti-Russian.
As for TAT, I never said she was logical or unbiased. In fact, just the opposite. She also strikes me as a bit “crazy” (aka eccentric) but it’s the endearing kinda crazy. My point is that I can dislike or like Russian skaters, coaches, etc without it having anything to do with them being Russian. And I wish I spoke the language. I’m starting to pick up a few words here and there due to the amount of interviews I’m watching though!
- Joined
- Jan 23, 2017
NHL is a private for-profit entity and each club is individually owned by assorted people or groups and it can range from the Detroit Red Wings ownership being the family of the guy who owned the Little Caesar's pizza restaurant chain to the Ontario Teacher's Pension Plan spending close to 20 years being the majority owners of the Toronto Maple Leafs (this was seen as Not a Good Thing by many Canadian hockey fans because the duty of the pension plan was to maximize profits and the Maple Leafs hockey brand is always going to be strong enough that the pension plan discovered that they could make lots of money without bothering to try to put a competitive team on the ice)
I'm in the camp that likes Med the mime and feel like her programs often do bring something different and interesting to the ice. But I also hate an over reliance of 'dead baby' melodrama in programs, and as someone who spent most of 9/11 in a panic waiting to fortunately get word that a beloved relative was still alive, I think it's kind of a tacky theme unless an athlete has a more direct connection to that day.
- Joined
- Feb 16, 2014
Did you get this upset about I/Z and S/K training in the USA? Evgenia is a far better investment than those turned out to be. If I were Russian, I'd be more annoyed that certain skaters were kept in the team receiving funding even when they were clearly not going to compete all season (and not just for one season...). Or a very mediocre skater like Petrov who has no chance of making a podium at any major competition.
And nobody here knows what the actual agreement is between Orser, Evgenia, and the Russian Fed. Maybe they give her similar funding to what they would any other top Russian skater if she makes up the difference. Don't they get a cut of her endorsements and show earnings already, on top of her winnings? Of course they're not just paying for skaters' every whim without expecting something in return.
How the heck do Javier Raya & Sonia Lafuente manage to train at TCC? Do you think the Spanish fed is rolling in money? Those two are lucky if they even make the minimum to compete at Worlds & Euros.
Russia may not be a rich country, but the #1 reason for that is certainly not money spent on athletics...it's corruption and kleptocracy. At least the sporting tradition gives people something to be proud of and support their athletes. It's part of the culture and I do not see that changing. Nor would I want to, because then only the elite could afford to put their kids in skating and many great talents would never have been discovered. The talent pool would dwindle like it has in the US. By the way, did people call TAT a traitor for living in the US and training foreign skaters? Or all those other Russian coaches who moved abroad? I don't understand why this is such an issue now, except it's the internet era and everyone has to find something to complain about.
- Joined
- Dec 9, 2017
That's certainly one way to put it.
- Joined
- Mar 21, 2018
LOL is GS drama going to outlive the actual Russian drama 
Anyway, re: BOrser's ability to fix technique, the shining example is neither Yuna nor Yuzuru but Javier. Javier may have a lot of innate talent, but before he came to BOrser I remember his skate was almost always a hot mess. And his spins now may not be among the best, but his spins before were simply atrocious (even Javi himseld and the team at TCC had a good laugh about it
). His jumps have gotten a lot more consistent too - I don't know exactly how BOrser and co. did it, but Javi can fix his axis mid-air(!). Like sometimes the take-off was terrible, he would be wildly off-axis for the first couple of revolutions, then bam! axis fixed and jump landed. Also, there's also the TCC Save™ that is just out of this world.
Of course, the team at TCC (with the notable jump coach Briand Ghislain) cleaned up Yuzuru's messy flip. I definitely think he had a lip all the way up to 2013 - in some cases it was F(!) but many times it was a honest-to-god lip. Right just before his toe picked, his slight inside edge would change to a rather deep outside edge (rip). Now, he and the TCC team just do something IMO is really clever - Yuzu no longer does his 3F with any preparation, just straight from the choreo to the jump, hence he has no time to change edge involuntarily. Problem solved - while getting higher GOEs too for creative entrance.
(eh I have a theory that Yuzu hates the inside edge but that's neither here nor there)
OTOH, Gabby still sometimes flutzes (ETA: I remembered incorrectly, the flip is more problematic, thanks @chopinskate) - so TCC is not invincible. Whether Evgenia can improve her technique we'll just have to see - but BOrser and co. do have some ability to fix technique. Heh, I don't agree with his "fantastic jump" comment either; but Orser does PR for his other students too, so it's nothing new. Personally I'm just gonna handwave it away as PR - no way BOrser believes wholeheartedly what he said, and even if he does, Tracy Wilson used to have a lot to say about Evgenia on her commentary, so the team is not blind.
Anyway, re: BOrser's ability to fix technique, the shining example is neither Yuna nor Yuzuru but Javier. Javier may have a lot of innate talent, but before he came to BOrser I remember his skate was almost always a hot mess. And his spins now may not be among the best, but his spins before were simply atrocious (even Javi himseld and the team at TCC had a good laugh about it
). His jumps have gotten a lot more consistent too - I don't know exactly how BOrser and co. did it, but Javi can fix his axis mid-air(!). Like sometimes the take-off was terrible, he would be wildly off-axis for the first couple of revolutions, then bam! axis fixed and jump landed. Also, there's also the TCC Save™ that is just out of this world.Of course, the team at TCC (with the notable jump coach Briand Ghislain) cleaned up Yuzuru's messy flip. I definitely think he had a lip all the way up to 2013 - in some cases it was F(!) but many times it was a honest-to-god lip. Right just before his toe picked, his slight inside edge would change to a rather deep outside edge (rip). Now, he and the TCC team just do something IMO is really clever - Yuzu no longer does his 3F with any preparation, just straight from the choreo to the jump, hence he has no time to change edge involuntarily. Problem solved - while getting higher GOEs too for creative entrance.
(eh I have a theory that Yuzu hates the inside edge but that's neither here nor there)OTOH, Gabby still sometimes flutzes (ETA: I remembered incorrectly, the flip is more problematic, thanks @chopinskate) - so TCC is not invincible. Whether Evgenia can improve her technique we'll just have to see - but BOrser and co. do have some ability to fix technique. Heh, I don't agree with his "fantastic jump" comment either; but Orser does PR for his other students too, so it's nothing new. Personally I'm just gonna handwave it away as PR - no way BOrser believes wholeheartedly what he said, and even if he does, Tracy Wilson used to have a lot to say about Evgenia on her commentary, so the team is not blind.
- Joined
- Dec 9, 2017
Where are we getting that Daleman has a flutz? Sometimes she rolls onto a flat right after she picks in and is entering rotation, but what?
- Joined
- Mar 21, 2018
Is it? Sorry if I remembered wrongly - I never really slowmo her lutz but my impression was that they look weird~
- Joined
- Dec 9, 2017
I think it's her Flip she's trying to correct, isn't it?
- Joined
- Jun 27, 2012
LOL! I remember! Last summer they hated Zhenya in many thread! Her every "weak" side received a thread! She was annoying with her mimic, her music choice was bad, she can skate similar programs only, her jumps are awful, she is not artistry, she is very overcored, etc,etc... And this is so weird for me, too. It seems if they can hate Eteri instead of Zhenya that is great for them.
- Joined
- Mar 21, 2018
Just rewatched her Worlds LP, I stand corrected about the lutz. You're right, it's more of a flat edge. And the flip is more problematic than I had an impression of
Tech panel called both the lutz and flip (!) but I would give the flip an e - she wavered back and forth between the slight inside-flat-slight outside.- Status
