Evgenia Medvedeva to train under Brian Orser

[Haleth]

Hmmmmm i don't think so. There is not enough credit given to Nanami Abe, seriously. Yuzuru had a flip (!) not a lip, he had already his magnificient 3A and a pretty solid 4T, was landing 4S in practice. Yuzuru still fall a lot with Brian Orser. I don't see what he repaired on Javier's jumps. Talking about Junhwan, his 3A still really bad. Maybe Orser teach him his 4S.
And i was talking about jumps especially.

Actually people give her plenty of credit, as already mentioned above, as well as for knowing when it's the right time for a student to move on because they have taken them as far as they can go. She was a fantastic coach for Yuzuru.

Again, as others have said, Brian and his team stabilized the 4S in competition and that was Yuzuru's stated goal for moving to Brian. He saw what being with Brian had done for Javi's Sal. I hope we can agree that Yuzuru is a smart competitor and can be relied on for assessing a positive change in his rival.

Let's also not forget that Yuzuru learned the 4L and 4Lz under Orser as well and have landed both in competition.

Oh, and the Yuzuru "still fall a lot" claim begs to be explored with data: http://the-real-xmonster.tumblr.com/post/166583644404/in-the-course-of-collecting-data-for-a-bizarre

(Note that the data does not include anything from the 2017-2018 season and that reading the notes below is instructive)

For those who don't want to look at the link, guess which skater has the highest average success rate on landing quads in competition? Yuzuru Hanyu. Who has the best success rate on 4S? Yuzuru and then Javi (for the latter read the accompanying note for context). If you know how difficult quad jumps are, you'll realize that "falling a lot" happens to all of the top men. So I don't think that can be used as evidence that Brian's and Ghislain's skills in the jump department are lacking.

 

[Watch]

Was it just some irrational Eteri hate (like yours, for example, Eteri's methods are pretty standard, not only in FS, but also in other areas, for example rythmic gymnastics), or whatever, no clue?

To be fair, rhythmic gymnastics mights not be the best example, because the amount of straight up abuse that's happening there is seriously appalling... watching the latest documentary about Mammun made me sick. But yeah, generally speaking, Eteri's not exactly exceptional, just the typical "Russian old school". There's a lot to critisize about the boot camp-y old school approach, though... the truly iffy part is the eating habits she pushes for her skaters. Not exceptional either, but potentially very harmful.

 

[withwings]

Moderators really have to close this thread.

 

[icetug]

I understand you are new and all, but by checking old threads you can actually see that many people that post here supporting Zhenya's move are the very same people who bashed her on every competition.

Don't you really see how logical it is? When you don't like a skater performances, you feel that under another coach they can only improve, so you opt for a change.

On the other hand: if you like a skater, you support their decisions. That's also logical. Let's go on. If you don't like a skater and their performances, you don't take the trouble to comment. So the only posters who are opposite Zhenya's decisions are those who don't like Zhenya and like her performances. Power of Saturday morning logic

 

[giulia95]

LOL is GS drama going to outlive the actual Russian drama

Anyway, re: BOrser's ability to fix technique, the shining example is neither Yuna nor Yuzuru but Javier.

Of course, the team at TCC (with the notable jump coach Briand Ghislain) cleaned up Yuzuru's messy flip. I definitely think he had a lip all the way up to 2013 - in some cases it was F(!) but many times it was a honest-to-god lip. Right just before his toe picked, his slight inside edge would change to a rather deep outside edge (rip). Now, he and the TCC team just do something IMO is really clever - Yuzu no longer does his 3F with any preparation, just straight from the choreo to the jump, hence he has no time to change edge involuntarily. Problem solved - while getting higher GOEs too for creative entrance. :biggrin:(eh I have a theory that Yuzu hates the inside edge but that's neither here nor there)
.

Yes!!! A very smart Nanami Abe 's creation in 2011, 8 years ago

https://youtu.be/lIMzM9gjDmY?t=80

https://youtu.be/hH0hMu8p6YI?t=92

This is Yuzu’s flip score data during the 2011-2012 season, the last season he trained under Nanami.
The flip entrance hasn’t changed since then .

Flip GOE

2011 Nebelhorn Trophy +1,10
2011 COC + 1
2011 COR +0.80
2011 GPF +1
2012 World +1,20



4S

Under Borser Yuzu had two years of falls and heavy struggles. He finally fixed his 4S technique after 2014 COC horrible accident , during one of the toughest moment of his careere. He was badly injured and he was training in Japan, Yuzu came back directly from hell to win Barcelona GPF showing a top notch 4S.


2012 SA 4S Fall
2012 NHK 4S -1,71
2012 GPF 4S doubled

2013 4CC 4S doubled
2013 Worlds 4S < -1,86
*****************************
2013 SC 4S Fall
2013 TEB 4S popped
2013 GPF 4S Fall
2014 Olys 4S Fall
2014 Worlds 4S 0
*************************
2014 COC 4S Fall
2014 NHK 4S doubled
2014 GPF 4S + 2,43
2015 Worlds 4S doubled
2015 WTT 4S + 2,57
***********************
2015 SC 4S +1,71
2015 NHK 4S +2.86
2015 GPF 4S + 3.00

 

[yume]

You see, one thing is to genuinely root for Zhenya.
Other thing are the users who considered Zhenya one of the overscored teenage jumping beans with muscled jumps and no artistry, and now they are suddenly rooting for Zhenya? I understand you are new and all, but by checking old threads you can actually see that many people that post here supporting Zhenya's move are the very same people who bashed her on every competition. Those people are my personal peeve, no clue whats wrong with them.

.

Seems to me that most of these people root for her decision and not for her. That's different IMO. You can dislike the skating of a skater and think that she's overscored but support her decision to change her coach, since it can make her improve. It's different of suddendly think that she's one of the best artistic skaters and totally deserve the marks that she got.

 

[plushyfan]

How is that "in confidence"? Eteri's methods are public knowledge, are documented, and have been spoken about by her other pupils. Revealing something in confidence is using someone's most emotional comments against them maliciously in the court of public opinion.

You're willfully trying to compare apples to oranges.

No. I don't care about how many likes you received for this post. In his interview Orser told what he was talking with Zhenya. It's so ridiculous how you all ignore the facts. Read carefully what Orser says in the interview. You will see he didn't say what we all know about Eteri's method,he mentioned what Zhenya told him in that concrete talk about their works in the team .
And then Averbukh reacted to it what is so outrageus and ridiculous for you again. I'm sure zhenya is not happy with it, because not only Eteri but Averbukh was also offended. And probably she didn't want it.

Revealing something in confidence is using someone's most emotional comments against them maliciously in the court of public opinion. You're willfully trying to compare apples to oranges.

This is a good try to explain Brian's fault.

Everything is relative there is no absolute truth.

 

[1critic]

Well if mods ever decide to close here, I can make a discord to continue the discussion. I’ve had a lot of fun reading the debates back and forth.

 

[chopinskate]

A closed space full of this? You're brave. Or love popcorn, infinitely.

 

[1critic]

A closed space full of this? You're brave. Or love popcorn, infinitely.

Both, actually.

I’m new to FS and learning about the sport through opinions is better for me than reading through the ISU handbooks, which are boring AF.

 

[uhh]

Both, actually.

I’m new to FS and learning about the sport through opinions is better for me than reading through the ISU handbooks, which are boring AF.

If you actually want to learn, you are far better off reading the ISU documents rather than listening to rants from biased fans.

 

[chopinskate]

Both, actually.

I’m new to FS and learning about the sport through opinions is better for me than reading through the ISU handbooks, which are boring AF.

You'll have enough discussions about FS over the season, and, trust me, the popcorn is far more buttery.

If you actually want to learn, you are far better off reading the ISU documents rather than listening to rants from biased fans.

Disagree. The ISU documents do not have nuance about jump technique in the slightest, nor spin technique, nor skating skills, nor musicality, nor choreography. I could go on. Intellectual discourse shouldn't be replaced by a document, written, by the way, through the vote of biased federations.

 

[Midnightcass]

Both, actually.

I’m new to FS and learning about the sport through opinions is better for me than reading through the ISU handbooks, which are boring AF.

As long as you developed your own opinions about the skaters tgen you would be fine. If you form options based on others you would probably come off GS with this opinions such as-

Yuzuru Hanyu is the GOAT, no one can compare! Everyone should just stop skating!
Honestly can appreciate anyone else's skating.

Quad king Nathan Chen! He would have won the Olympics, don't tell me differently Pooh-bot.

Jin Boyang has absolutely no skating skills. He's just a jumper and he is ruining our sport!

Omg Evgenia jumps are muscled, she has no artistry and what's with the constant open mouth expression? Wait she's going to Brian? Oh well....

 

[Midnightcass]

Above post is exaggerated with touches of sarcasm. Don't drag me.

 

[DaNiCG]

Re: about people not liking Med and now rooting for her, I am one of them, but I didnt bash her here or anywhere, just when people talk exactly about that matter with me, and it wasnt bashing her, just talking about her tecnique...and the pantomiming...and the programs

I never like her programs, just AK, and the EX ones, I felt them dull, there wasnt any move that difference that program to others, and the fact that she was/is overscored didnt help (cause she is, ok lets be realistic, I accept when my fave are overscored) but this change...she may change her style a little, this is a new opportunity, I like to support people when they are been harassed for no reason, and given that she was I started defending her (cause even some of her "fans" were calling her fake, but yeah, lets not mention them), now that does not mean Im not going to turn a blind eye this season, that Im going to support her no matter what (mostly the, she did so well!!! no mistakes!!! Im not like that), I want her to do good, but...Im not going to hide the sun with a finger, this change proof that she cares, and that deserve a second change, I mean why going to BOrser to be the same? she could have gone to anyone else and it wouldve been less problematic (unless that stupid rumour about her going just for Yuzuru, which I doubt, she is better than that) I root for this change..and this is a treath about she going to Orser, not just about her.


So your whole actitud of "now they are my personal peeves" makes me almost stop rooting for her, but I remember, those same fans stop me for liking her at the beginning, Im not going to let them win again, I have more experience now (it was that program with Yiruma, I saw it and found it kinda cringy, people attack me because of that, instead of "people have different opinions" it was "you are wrong and do not understand art, so shut up Yuna-Kim-Bot* anti-russian hater...I was new, I didnt know who the hell was Yuna, or that Ev was russian(? ) and I like her as a person, she is cute, I expect her to do good, and I support all skaters in TCC so

as I always say, Lets wait and see





Edit: Change fan for bot, its Yuna Kim bot

 

[yume]

Re: about people not liking Med and now rooting for her, I am one of them, but I didnt bash her here or anywhere, just when people talk exactly about that matter with me, and it wasnt bashing her, just talking about her tecnique...and the pantomiming...and the programs

That's bashing and hate for her uber fans.

Personally, i support her move but i don't root for her. I will wait to see obvious positives changes in her skating (yes skating, because that is what i dislike, not her) and occasionally scores more close to reality (i don't really hope for that). I don't like skaters for who is their coach but for who they are as skaters and their improvements.

 

[Tulipstar]

Evgenia just posted a pic with Averbukh. I think that things are calming down a little.

 

[ancientpeas]

I invite you all to join in my new thread about Evgenia's plans for her new season.

 

[1critic]

I invite you all to join in my new thread about Evgenia's plans for her new season.

link?

 

[ancientpeas]

https://www.goldenskate.com/forum/showthread.php?72923-Evgenia-Medvedeva-s-2018-19-Season

Thanks for the reminder.