Evgenia Medvedeva
- Thread starter Totentanz
- Start date
- Joined
- Sep 23, 2017
Since your calculations usually turn out to be pretty accurate, I‘m a bit more positive now.
Btw, does anyone know which TCC skater this was? I want to see Zhenya‘s biellmann!
It was Joseph Phan, you can see Zhenya in the background doing a layback (no biellman, no foot catch) - the music in the background was her FS music, so potentially we may see it in there.
ETA: luanddu just posted it above here!
- Joined
- Jul 3, 2018
Zhenya now has really good chances for the GPF. At Skate Canada she also said that she needs to win at IdF. So her team probably knows what they will have to change to make that happen. 213 is not an impossible score for her to get if she skates clean and leaves out the second Lutz in the FS and fixes her spins. Fingers crossed.
- Joined
- Apr 26, 2018
Thank you! Well, that‘s a really, really tiny snippet of Zhenya but it‘s some content and I‘m happy for every bit. It looks like she‘s doing a layback here but no idea whether she‘s even putting in the biellmann or not as we can’t see more than a few seconds. We‘ll find out in France, I guess.
- Joined
- Sep 21, 2018
I agree that if she skates clean, she will win. Her PCS should go up w a truly clean slate - which I think is her advantage over her closest competitor. We have seen her in practice - actually all she has to do is perform as she does in practice, with better spins (which I see they are addressing now).
Her new team is delivering on their promise to build on her programs as the season progresses. To me ACI and SC were miles apart. Without that costly mistake on the SP, she would have easily won SC. There will surely be upgrades in IdF - particularly because her team knows she needs the win.
The trajectory is upward. Her team knows she needs to peak at the right time.
- Joined
- Sep 21, 2018
I also intend to send something to Evgenia - I had brought with me YOI toys but wasn’t able to throw any of them after her performances. I would LOVE to go see her in Vancouver (yes, I am claiming that on her behalf), but I could not find any tickets! So I’m thinking of sending them to TCC, maybe also with a Starbucks gift card, so combined with all the Starbucks gift cards that you guys will give, she will have a year’s supply of coffee 
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- Joined
- Aug 23, 2018
I saw some on stub hub and there were some for sale on golden skate.
- Joined
- Oct 20, 2017
I wonder if we send the gift cards to the TCC club, maybe attention Brian Orser? I checked and a US card will work in Canada
- Joined
- Aug 23, 2018
But do you think they will open it? I could just imagine them being weary of packages from unknown people. But I live in the States and that is the though process here.
- Joined
- Oct 20, 2017
I thought that too. I'm going to call the club this week and see if their helpdesk can give any suggestions.
- Joined
- Sep 21, 2018
OMG thanks for letting me know, I will check them out. Last time I looked was Sunday on my flight back from Montreal.
- Joined
- Aug 23, 2018
I think closer to the date you will see more too.
- Joined
- Apr 26, 2018
I‘m from Austria which is basically at the other side of the world if you want to send a parcel so I‘m actually not that hopeful that it would actually get delivered. I hope you‘ll find out, though!
Maybe if you send her something something make an extra note and tell her that all her fans from goldenskate support her. I would be thankful for that and she should know that we‘re all sending her good vibes and good luck!!
- Joined
- May 7, 2017
Hi, @Metis. We are only playing with the layout, looking for the favorable cases or the worst ones. We agree that given the current conditions it is risky. I don't say that it is necessary to move her current 3-2-2, I just say that according to the probabilities, if she cultivate a good rate of success in that new combo, she could gain many more points by moving it, and consequently have many more possibilities to add new combos (2A-3Lo, 3s-3lo), which require some mobility in the other elements.We are not talking about the next competition, but about a future and its alternatives.
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Orser put a combo 3lz and a solo 3lz in the FS (BV = 63.85), much was said about this in the forum, some disapproved, but after this there is a very logical experimentation valid for all new combos ; they need to know:
1-Sucess rate of the new element
2-The reaction of the judges to the new element ( calls "e" or ! , ur , GOE , final points ,etc)
The current layout was equivalent to a risk, but at least they already have solid data to build strategies ( 3lz (!)combo got extra points 0.67 , 9.17 in total), they didn't have data on the success rate of a 3lz combo because this is the first time that she has one in her layout, they need to collect that information, and so far (in two competitions) this element has worked. Second 3lz proved not to be a success and most likely they change it for a 3F (BV = 63.25, she lose 0.60 points).
*About what you say: The reason why there was never a 3lzcombo or a 3lz in the second half for Zhenya, was because her coaches thought her PCS advantage would always compensate for their lack of BV, they trusted in this and that's why they didn't change the design in 3 years. It seems exaggerated to blame "their extremely flawed toe jumps", which in theory are not: it's true that they are smaller than her edge jumps, but they have always fulfilled, they have a more stable landing than the majority, good position in the air and in the case of her Flip, excellent inside edge.
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for the SP it may be safer to change the 3lz (5.90) for a 3loop (4.90) only in this next competition, but put it back in the next one (she loses a whole point in her BV with this). If her 3Loop get +5 (+2.45) by most of the judges in a VERY exaggeratedly optimistic case, the final result for the jump will be: 7.35,. If she get +3 (+1.47), that can be quite probable = 6.37. Or +4 (1.96) = 6.86
3lz! ---> 5.90 +1 (0.25) = 6.15 , in her last competition.
For the case to be favorable she must mark at least +3 in GOE , otherwise it would be more advantageous to keep the 3lz (!).
The Canada Post rotating strikes affect all postal delivery - - - doesn't matter from where.
UPS is my favourite among the well known couriers from the US to Canada. I choose it if I can. They have great service here.
Don't use FedEx. If she's not home, they won't leave it and the pickup location may be on the other side of Toronto. I avoid them.
Purolator is usually the best courier for home delivery in Canada as you can pick your package up at the local postal kiosk if a signature is required and they miss you at home. They are owned by Canada Post but aren't affected by the strike.
However Purolator International is less for the home market than for businesses that trade between Canada and the US.
https://www.purolator.com/en/resour...nformation/about-purolator-international.page
- Joined
- Feb 14, 2018
Beyond IdF and Russian nationals, we have no idea what her competitive outings will be so far. I’m not saying her layout won’t change, just that looking at how to make a layout solely by the numbers (that is, without taking into account how well a skater can perform it or likelihood of success) is pointless. If you enjoy theorycrafting, go nuts, but at least acknowledge your suggestions aren’t taking into account anything but the numbers, as the only reason I said anything was seeing responses suggesting Orser is foolish for not following your calculations.
It’s because the 3Lz is a terrible jump for Med and causes her to noticeably tense up, and along with the 2A, it was . If she could perform two 3Lzes, she would have at the Olympics, as it would have narrowed the BV advantage Zagitova had, especially after seeing Zagitova’s PCS at Nationals, Euros, GP, etc. http://skatedb.net/modules/skateDB/index.php?page=player&playerid=1246]Look at the raw numbers.[/URL] By skateDB’s count, she has a 60% success rate on the Lutz, and it hasn’t been in the backhalf of a programme since she was a junior. That’s not because of PCS, but actual performance.
1. If she didn’t have at least a flat edge on her flip, it would be a lip, which would be a Lutz, and she has a flutz, which is a flip, and not a Lutz... we’ve come full circle!
2. Her landings are typically solid: good extension, decent speed. They’re probably the best element of her jumps. But she is not a natural toe jumper, and while she’s shown some improvement in basic technique, she still has issues: from a mule kick to a habit of leaving her foot on the ice after picking to excessive pre-rotation that comes close to 180 degrees. Screencaps are of her first 3Lz attempt at Skate America. A judge would be justified in lowering her GOE for poor take off due to both the height of her leg before she slams it down to pick for the jump and the use of the blade instead of just the toe pick. She is also jumping with her arms (initiating rotation with them), which is a concern, as that may have worked a few years ago but it doesn’t now.
Her flip has improved, and the lack of arm variation and her greater comfort with the jump may be why she gets noticeably more height on her better flips. However, the mule kick remains (her foot is at the level of her hip). She has the same problem on the 3T. (Screencaps from her 3F-3T combo at Skate America.) (She has a great running edge coming out of the flip.)
There are things I like about Medvedeva, but her toe jumps are not one of them. She is not the only skater who has these exact same issues, but they are very visible in her case, and her lack of height and distance on the flip and Lutz make those issues more pronounced when I watch her. If you want to discuss this further, we can, but I don’t want to harsh the vibe in her FF. I am, however, trying to make it clear why what works in theory may be impossible in practice — Medvedeva is clearly an edge jumper, and her toe jumps, at least right now, have technical issues that detract from my ability to appreciate her programmes. They’re definitely improving, but I don’t think the flip is ever going to be her highest-scoring jump; as of right now, I think her 2A is better than her 3Lze, 3F, and 3T.
As for changing her SP layout — first of all, changing jumps means changing the skating steps leading into them, altering choreo, etc., so constantly swapping around jumps isn’t good for Medvedeva and will detract from the performance. Moreover, TCC tends to refine programmes over the season — enhancing choreo and transitions, etc. — so constantly swapping around layouts is very much not their thing. (Because, again, what an internet calculator says is the best answer and what actually is the best answer are not the same thing.) The 3Lz is in the short programme so Medvedeva can build up confidence performing it and in doing so bring over her “good habits” from practices. As for the 3Lo itself: it’s been her weakest jump this season, ironically. She fell on the 3Lo at ACI and her 3Lo at Skate America was downgraded (fairly, in my opinion). I’d say the 3S is the jump she has the highest scoring potential on, actually.
My point is: you can obsess over the points and calculate what would be best given X tech call and Y GOE, but at that point, you’re not optimizing a layout so much as trying to force various elements together in some kind of Frankenstein’s monster fashion. I think the second 3Lz in the free skate should be swapped out for a variety of reasons, but I don’t think it’s there because Orser and Medvedeva are expecting to earn high GOE and lots of points off it. If it needs to be cut, I assume it will be, but the first 3Lz in the free skate and one in the SP are there so she can work on transferring improvements onto the ice. It’s going to take time to fix the edge, if it can even be turned into a true outside edge and not just a flat, along with refining her jump technique in general. On the other hand, it’s amazing to see improvements already, across a variety of areas, and with more experience will come greater comfort in trying new methods and not defaulting to old bad habits.
If you keep sacrificing real improvement and long term growth for short term results, you’ll never make actual progress. Let’s say Medvedeva doesn’t make the GPF — but continues her upward trajectory and we keep seeing improvement all throughout the season. Is it worth it if by Worlds her 3F is truly a +4/5 jump? I would say yes, as if she makes that much progress in just one season, I doubt she’ll ever fail to make the GPF again. Sometimes, you really can’t have everything, and I guarantee you that while Orser and Med are willing to make some layout changes for competitive reasons, they are less concerned with every possible permutation of how her elements will score than with how much she’s able to perform the elements to the best of her ability. Which is what I most like about Medvedeva — how much she keeps working to improve herself. And that should be encouraged. We aren’t her coaches, and neither is a calculator app. If she wants to change her layout, I’m sure she will, as she can tell everyone at TCC and they’ll work with her to do so. But in absence of that, I’m going to assume TCC knows better than we do, and it’s not like they haven’t worked on edge issues before — Hanyu had a lip that became an actual flip.
- Joined
- Feb 12, 2015
I always assumed that you could send fan mail to the skating club and they would screen it appropriately. If I recall correctly that’s what they do at Lakewood. But I just read that a Russian fan tried to send something to Evgenia at Sambo 70 last year and it got bounced back so I’m not sure. So maybe clubs have different rules
- Joined
- Oct 20, 2017
Agreed.
Well, it´s not a full blade anymore. Clearly visible on the gifs(I watched it also frame by frame)
(3Lz)
https://media.giphy.com/media/3Mhq6OxpYfxkcEbnpP/giphy.gif and her (3F3T)
https://media.giphy.com/media/fxyU3SUIwuIHuOxD9K/giphy.gif
https://www.imagebanana.com/s/1231/6YWXXUkx.html
your pic
Ofc her toe-pick technique is not perfect but there is an improvement in comparison to last year.
I would say the big majority of the current ladies field has a prerotation close to 180 degree. It´s an issue but as long as the other girls are not been santcioned...
How many girls have the correct toepick technique? There should be a study but I would say at least 70% of the current ladies field use "the full blade technique". I´am for minus GOE if a skater use this technique or even BV deduction but you can see at the moment, ISU judges just ignore (or can not see it in real time) the poor take-off and do not lowering the GOE.
The problem is the judging, you can already recieve 3F +4/5 GOE with full blade takeoff and close to 180 degree prerotation. (see junior grand prix or even this weekend- GP Finland.
[/QUOTE]
And @MedoLove forget the 3Lz2T2T in the bonus zone, it does not make sense at the moment.
- Joined
- Feb 10, 2018
Sambo 70 policy is "we do not get involved into athletes personal matters." Seems harsh, but you have to remember that Sambo 70 is not only skating club, they have about 16,000 athletes.
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