Free Dance

[all that]

I'm totally confused.

Yeah, V and M will probably will becuase they have better techniques and hence do their elements better, and D and S will never win a world medal because they're not as good in their techniques. Yeah, that's a bit sad isn't it?

What is sad about a team that has worse technique losing to a team that has better technique?

I don't like how you make it seem like youngsters are held back when they deserve to be on top. If anything, I feel like it's the reverse case here. D and S this year has a more complex program, whereas as many have observed on the forum, V and M's dance doesn't really tell a story but instead is a fluid series of one element after another.

The problem D/S have had, at least in the past 2 seasons, is that they have complex programs that they are not able to execute. What's the point of having a complex program if you can't do the elements properly?? That's like telling someone to buy a car that can't run, just because it has lots of fancy gadgets.

I don't know, I'm just a bit tired of the youngsters doing better elements because they're better accostomed to the judging system but people still saying the veterans are favored. I don't think that's the case any longer, so I just hope people don't forget what ice skating was really about several years ago before the new system came about.

This is life. Things change, and if you want to keep playing, you have to adjust. DelShoes either have to learn the new required elements, or retire with dignity. Right now, I see no reason why they aren't able to consistently execute the elements -- yet for some reason they don't. They need to examine this problem for themselves. But I'm certainly not going to penalize a younger team for doing a better job than the DelSchoes, just because the DelSchoes are an older team. This is sport, not a family gathering.

The old system is gone, and if you feel sad, then you need to get on youtube and watch old videos. Believe me, that's what I do for pairs, because I can't stand what the new system has done to that particular discipline. But I wouldn't be saying that a team that was great under the old system (and DelSchoes weren't exactly stars under the old system, anyway) should be rewarded if they can't keep up in the new system.

The ultimate point is that I believe that DelSchoes can do a good job under the new system. They just have to do it. If they don't, then they shouldn't be surprised if other teams pass them. This isn't a "young" vs. "old" issue. If you're in, then you should be in it to win it. If you aren't, young or old, you need to get out of the game.

 

[cassieandcheetah]

I'm totally confused.



What is sad about a team that has worse technique losing to a team that has better technique?



The problem D/S have had, at least in the past 2 seasons, is that they have complex programs that they are not able to execute. What's the point of having a complex program if you can't do the elements properly?? That's like telling someone to buy a car that can't run, just because it has lots of fancy gadgets.



This is life. Things change, and if you want to keep playing, you have to adjust. DelShoes either have to learn the new required elements, or retire with dignity. Right now, I see no reason why they aren't able to consistently execute the elements -- yet for some reason they don't. They need to examine this problem for themselves. But I'm certainly not going to penalize a younger team for doing a better job than the DelSchoes, just because the DelSchoes are an older team. This is sport, not a family gathering.

The old system is gone, and if you feel sad, then you need to get on youtube and watch old videos. Believe me, that's what I do for pairs, because I can't stand what the new system has done to that particular discipline. But I wouldn't be saying that a team that was great under the old system (and DelSchoes weren't exactly stars under the old system, anyway) should be rewarded if they can't keep up in the new system.

The ultimate point is that I believe that DelSchoes can do a good job under the new system. They just have to do it. If they don't, then they shouldn't be surprised if other teams pass them. This isn't a "young" vs. "old" issue. If you're in, then you should be in it to win it. If you aren't, young or old, you need to get out of the game.

I think we both feel like the new judging system has done great damage to figure skating, but perhaps you just feel a bit less so about ice dancing than you do about pairs for instance. I didn't mean it's injustice that Tessa and Scott should win. No I didn't mean that. I guess what I meant is that it has probably been hard for the older skaters to adjust to the new system whereas the young ones pretty much grew up with it, so it's probably no wonder that Oli and Isabelle aren't as consistent as teams such as V/M. And I'm also a bit tired of people touting youngsters and saying they're being judged unjustly. Thanks to the new system, it's fair game for anybody, so I was just a bit miffed when someone suggested that with a different compulsory or with it gone altogheter it would set things right or something. I'm sure Oli and Isabelle want to deliver perfect programs, and I was pleasntly suprised to discover that his favorite element actually are the twizzles! so we'll see. Hopefully they'll deliver soon, in ways that all of us want to see them do.

 

[oleada]

V&M definitely do not have better technique than D&S. You can critisize Delobel and Schoenfelder on a number of things, but their amazing skating technique is not one of them.

 

[shine]

I think V/M are brilliant dancers stuck with two unbelievably dull programs (I still don't get UoC, and Valso Triste was sooo much better) this year. I don't get how a team as talented as V/M could be given programs that are just so below their level. I think I read somewhere that V/M are skating to "V/M on ice" rather than to the music, and I totally agree with that. Their music does feel like background music, as if I were watching a beautifully made montage... Thank god they have that rare kind of charm to still draw people in as much as they do. I've seen them do better and I know they CAN from their past performances. IMO they could do just about any type of OD rhythm and theme (kind of reminds me of K/O), but this year's was so not folk at all. They have so much musicality and nuances to details and these two programs just totally do not let them stand out. I hope they seriously consider a coaching change or at least get a new choreoraphy, ASAP!

 

[1795]

You can bash V&M all you want, it won"t make D& S better skaters

not directed to you bellafurr, but

you can make V/M sound as good as you can, it won't better

 

[1795]

i'm loving the intense arguments

i love how certain teams are just like trends...that's right trends...a hype

 

[1795]

I think, that now its different time in ID - even you didnt skate so long (like Del/Shol) you can have medals at competitions. Del/Shol is team of old-time period - today we have some really strong yonger teams, which show much better elements and steps. The dances need changes and Dom/Shab, V/M, Kh/N,B/A show modern dance, which was made on modern rules Isa and Oly show for us dances from last era

i dont see a big difference in modernity, i think V/M are a bit too dance-y like in their footwork...but i guess people are lovin their acting ang their lifts...that "root of true ice dancing" theory...

but honestly i dont see Del/Scho having an old era thing....

 

[1795]

V&M definitely do not have better technique than D&S. You can critisize Delobel and Schoenfelder on a number of things, but their amazing skating technique is not one of them.

 

[all that]

i'm loving the intense arguments

i love how certain teams are just like trends...that's right trends...a hype

ITA. DelSchoes are like a bad trend that just won't go away. For a team that almost never manages to win anything, the hype they are getting this year is ridiculous.

And no -- I didn't misread your post. I knew what you meant.

 

[1795]

ITA. DelSchoes are like a bad trend that just won't go away. For a team that almost never manages to win anything, the hype they are getting this year is ridiculous.

And no -- I didn't misread your post. I knew what you meant.

 

[cassieandcheetah]

ITA. DelSchoes are like a bad trend that just won't go away. For a team that almost never manages to win anything, the hype they are getting this year is ridiculous.

And no -- I didn't misread your post. I knew what you meant.

Talk about hype. V and M are the ones are getting all the hype. All that, you are being quite terrible here and I refuse to respect you any for your flippant, insolent comments. "For a team that never manages to win anything?" It's a long climb getting there to the top. I'm not blaming it on bad luck either, but don't you try and dismiss them for it. And if you were curious, they won the Europeans last year.

 

[bellafurr]

I"v Never said thet were that good

 

[sk8tngcanuck]

i dont see a big difference in modernity, i think V/M are a bit too dance-y like in their footwork...but i guess people are lovin their acting ang their lifts...that "root of true ice dancing" theory...

but honestly i dont see Del/Scho having an old era thing....

Ummmm - too danc-y like in their footwork????? Last time I checked this was Ice DANCE we were watching, therefore, it is not a bad thing to be dancy!

It is the thing about V/M that I like the most - they bring DANCE to ice dance instead of just tricks and weird complicated movements that rack up points in CoP.

Canuck

 

[1795]

Ummmm - too danc-y like in their footwork????? Last time I checked this was Ice DANCE we were watching, therefore, it is not a bad thing to be dancy!

It is the thing about V/M that I like the most - they bring DANCE to ice dance instead of just tricks and weird complicated movements that rack up points in CoP.

Canuck

"too dance-y" is a bad phrase for this...but you know what i mean...not "too" but i'd say a dose of something besides dance...to add to the dance....if im making sense...

but i guess people want it...

 

[1795]

Talk about hype. V and M are the ones are getting all the hype. All that, you are being quite terrible here and I refuse to respect you any for your flippant, insolent comments. "For a team that never manages to win anything?" It's a long climb getting there to the top. I'm not blaming it on bad luck either, but don't you try and dismiss them for it. And if you were curious, they won the Europeans last year.

amen

 

[1795]

i don't see a big difference between "valse Triste" and "JE T'AAAAAIME umbrellas"...

 

[Ptichka]

While I am personally not a fan of Del. & Sch., I think they have rightly earned their place among the ice dance elite through years of quality and innovative performances (again, whether or not you like it). Virtue & Moire have a lot of charm and loads of potential. However, even had they won NHK, they still would not have taked Del. & Sch.'s place in the elite.

 

[dancemaster]

I think, that now its different time in ID - even you didnt skate so long (like Del/Shol) you can have medals at competitions. Del/Shol is team of old-time period - today we have some really strong yonger teams, which show much better elements and steps. The dances need changes and Dom/Shab, V/M, Kh/N,B/A show modern dance, which was made on modern rules Isa and Oly show for us dances from last era

this must be a joke ......................................the dance that Del/Shol doing at present is what ISU really wants face to face dancing interpreting a piece of music..not running around from element to element..and regarding twizzels i would like to see the younger ones trying it in the same position Del/Shol do it ..also the young teams need to pick up speed( seven crossovers) going into the circular stq only to finish it with out any speed ..it you look Del/Shol go into it without taking seven cross over and yet they came out with more speed then they went in that tells me great tecknique

 

[rain]

I'm not sure why so many posts on this forum have devolved into rather nasty fandom fights this season, but I don't think it makes for good discussion. It's more than fine to like one team more than another, even to feel they are superior skaters, but too often of late I'm reading fans of one particular team or skater totally denigrate competing teams and skaters, claiming they are pretty much the most undeserving, overrated thing to ever hit the ice, as if these things were fact, when the truth of the matter is that every skater has strengths and weaknesses, and they would not be at the elite level if they completely sucked. Why the need to put other skaters down to make your own favourites seem better (in your own mind only, I might add)? Surely a fan of skating can at least acknowledge that other teams deserve to be on the ice too.

Further, blaming skaters for fans being excited about them, or putting down fans of skaters that don't happen to be your personal favourites just drags any attempt at civil discussion out the door and beats it to death in the snow.

I'm finding the Del/Scho vs V/M discussion has descended into uneccessary digs and superlatives. I used to really love this board because it usually didn't come to this, but I'm getting turned off.

 

[cassieandcheetah]

I'm not sure why so many posts on this forum have devolved into rather nasty fandom fights this season, but I don't think it makes for good discussion. It's more than fine to like one team more than another, even to feel they are superior skaters, but too often of late I'm reading fans of one particular team or skater totally denigrate competing teams and skaters, claiming they are pretty much the most undeserving, overrated thing to ever hit the ice, as if these things were fact, when the truth of the matter is that every skater has strengths and weaknesses, and they would not be at the elite level if they completely sucked. Why the need to put other skaters down to make your own favourites seem better (in your own mind only, I might add)? Surely a fan of skating can at least acknowledge that other teams deserve to be on the ice too.

Further, blaming skaters for fans being excited about them, or putting down fans of skaters that don't happen to be your personal favourites just drags any attempt at civil discussion out the door and beats it to death in the snow.

I'm finding the Del/Scho vs V/M discussion has descended into uneccessary digs and superlatives. I used to really love this board because it usually didn't come to this, but I'm getting turned off.

I'm sorry the discussion here got a bit heated. But other than the laughs and the comments made by All That, I don't think any of us let it descend into "a nasty fight" that's less than civil as you describe it. I see that you're a Canadian, so that's perhaps why you're a bit perturbed by the so-called V/M bashing. Far from it. We all know they're excellent and know that they're talented, but I think it was more that some of us chose to be the devil's advocate and defend the merits of the french team, not all of which obviously are shared by V/M because they're much different, because I feel like this year really has belonged to V/M so not a lot of us have had the courage to step up and point out what we felt were their flaws too.