Hanyu's skating edges

[Meoima]

I've seee Hanyu live exactly 3 times now and I agree, he is not a noisy skater by any means. However, I don't know if I attribute that to the precision of his blade. I think he's quiet in the same way Medvedva is quiet--by being so physically slim and weightless that they're literally light on the ice.

Patrick is nowhere near being heavyweight despite Patrick himself believes that. Yuzuru is thinner but he is taller than Patrick. Yuzuru also says he has eaten more to gain muscles and improve his stamina. So frankly I think their weights are not too different, maybe the gap is around 5,6 kgs. If I remember correctly Yuzuru is almost 60 kgs now, wayyy heavier than Evegnia, there is no way he is weightless as her.

It is not just the weight that makes the difference in their skating sounds.

The difference comes from their skating styles and habit they were taught when they were young. Some people think the noisier your blade make, the better you are (I read a comment like that at FSuniverse) but some think they prefer less or almost no sound (like the skating style of Yuka Sato).

In this case, Patrick is the best example of "growling" skating and Yuzuru is the example of quiet skating. They're both very good. Different strokes, that's all.

 

[ks777]

"Growling" is a positive description of edges that carve deeply into the ice and make a sound that sounds like a growl.

Scratchy sounds are bad, scrapy or skiddy sounds usually bad.

It's easier to hear these sounds live. On video it may be impossible to hear them at all depending where the microphones are placed and how the sound technicians balance input from different sources, including music and commentary if applicable.

It all depends on what you are doing on the ice. Growling noise only happens when you making sharp turns. Obviously you have to be on deep edge to make those sharp turns. Not when you are doing crossovers nor twizzls though. When I was playing hockey, sometimes we have to share the ice with figure skaters and their blades never makes that loud growling noise compare with hockey players because figure skaters edges are much more controlled plus figure skating doesn't require the same speed. It's true that when you are on deep edge, you skate faster.. doing 3 turns with deep edge, you go faster but.. your 3 or a circle gets so small..I don't think you want that as a figure skater. You want to draw a big circle or 3 with your blade instead of a small fast circle. That's why you never see skaters doing spirals on deep edge. You won't make it from one side of the rink to the other side if you are on deep edge.

 

[ks777]

Patrick is nowhere near being heavyweight despite Patrick himself believes that. Yuzuru is thinner but he is taller than Patrick. Yuzuru also says he has eaten more to gain muscles and improve his stamina. So frankly I think their weights are not too different, maybe the gap is around 5,6 kgs. If I remember correctly Yuzuru is almost 60 kgs now, wayyy heavier than Evegnia, there is no way he is weightless as her.

It is not just the weight that makes the difference in their skating sounds.

The difference comes from their skating styles and habit they were taught when they were young. Some people think the noisier your blade make, the better you are (I read a comment like that at FSuniverse) but some think they prefer less or almost no sound (like the skating style of Yuka Sato).

In this case, Patrick is the best example of "growling" skating and Yuzuru is the example of quiet skating. They're both very good. Different strokes, that's all.

I'd prefer less noise, personally.

 

[Meoima]

I'd prefer less noise, personally.

Yeah I think it depends. The main coach at my ice rink has quite noisy sound. The younger coach has less sound and he was an ice dancer.
I have never seen Yuka Sato live in person, but people at FSuniverse says her skating almost has no sound.

 

[Globetrotter]

Yeah I think it depends. The main coach at my ice rink has quite noisy sound. The younger coach has less sound and he was an ice dancer.
I have never seen Yuka Sato live in person, but people at FSuniverse says her skating almost has no sound.

I only saw Sato once after she turned pro. At the speed she is going and how her turns Rare so smooth and the curves so tight and effortless, her blades are deathly quiet. Her edges are huge. In that sense, I see her as superior to PChan who is already the gold SS standard. I think Sato is a unique case that can't be replicated. Chan got his basics through his earlier years foundation and hard work. I won't say Hanyu is stronger or weaker but he uses his SS differently- more soft knees and ankles while PChan is more edge and bite on ice.

 

[qwertyskates]

My 2 cents:

Patrick at his best ETCHES, not scratches, the ice. At certain moments, as he turns, bits of ice fly due to the pressure he brings to bear with his deep edges. Of course it depends on the ice surface, if it's very hard the etching isn't as obvious. However, there's no question that he's in full control of the ice as he moves, the patterns he draws on the ice are huge, precise curves. When his blades turn, they turn at an exact angle so he is propelled in exactly the right direction as per his choreography. The "growling" sounds are the ice giving way to the force of his blades. Sometimes it's more like a "whoooosh". Again, it's when he's going at full speed, it's not noisy throughout, only at moments of his programs. His body is in perfect balance and control, you can tell where he is applying his weight, his ankles, knees, legs and hips moving in sync, unison and rhythm, first one, then the other, rising and falling like a graceful but powerful ice hockey player or downhill skier. They too make the same "growling" sounds. He can go forwards, backwards, he changes direction, he stops and starts, sometimes softer, sometimes fiercer and harder, changes speed with ease, turns and rocks according to his fluid choreography. His skating ebbs and flows and he exhibits a whole repertoire of movements.

This is in contrast to any skater (I don't mean Yuzu) who isn't mastering the ice in the same way but struggling a bit. That's where the ice may be scratched, it comes across as "friction", though of course scientifically the blades are in perpetual friction with the ice but it's a scratchy, screechy sound that's a bit hard on the ears....you get the picture. The ankles, knees and hips are not moving together, the legs are not in sync. The movements are less fluid, more erratic, the bigger curves give way to irregular squiggles, the rhythm is awry, there is a sense of a slight struggle. The edges become shallower.

That's why I really think he is the best out there in terms of SS.

If I'm wrong or missing in my observations do enlighten me.

 

[gkelly]

Scratching usually means the toepicks are digging into the ice, usually while going backward, exiting forward turns onto a backward edge. That shouldn't be happening -- it means the skater's weight is too far forward on the blade while traveling backward.

It is supposed to happen in scratch spins -- hence the name.

 

[narcissa]

Hanyu has no versatility, Hanyu has no edges... Please keep on informing me what else Yuzuru doesn't have!

a girlfriend :luv17:

 

[YuzusHydroblade]

a girlfriend :luv17:

Why bother, he has Pooh and his headphones

 

[FlattFan]

Uno's "deep exit edges"... happen when he is not fully in control of his rotation on exit (which happens often), forcing him into a sharp 180-degree turn. Yes, his edge is deep on those occasions, but it's half-way to a "turn out" on the jump - not something to admire, and not what I'd call "good flow" out of the jump.

Yup. Someone with truly deep exit edges is Nobunari Oda. His edge must be on a 30 degree from the ice surface. Absolutely no wobble. Look at this triple axel exit edge.

https://youtu.be/BxquOYmGwN8?t=55

 

[FlattFan]

When it comes to jumps, though, the beanpoles can leap higher and spin faster.

The most explosive jumpers are usually the ones with low center of gravity, not beanpoles.

 

[qwertyskates]

Yup. Someone with truly deep exit edges is Nobunari Oda. His edge must be on a 30 degree from the ice surface. Absolutely no wobble. Look at this triple axel exit edge.

https://youtu.be/BxquOYmGwN8?t=55

My favourite Japanese male skater (if retired skaters are included) for DEEP DEEP edges is Kozuka.

The most explosive jumpers are usually the ones with low center of gravity, not beanpoles.

For me personally, I don't only consider the explosive jumps or even very big jumps as "good jumps", my criteria are closer to fluidity with the program, ease and effortlessness - good take-offs, good position in the air, complete rotations, flow out in the landing so that the jumps are seamlessly integrated into the program. So easy that there's no telegraphing and beautiful transitions leading into and out of them. If there's a climax in the music, then yes, a bigger jump might deliver extra impact. Yuzu has the most amazing jumps in total, he just flies into the air like a bird, as if gravity is meaningless. The best 4lz though, belongs to Jin rather than Nathan. I wish there's a thread on jump techniques too.

 

[narcissa]

he didn't appear that tired as we have seen in the past where he was struggling to finish a performance and completely letting his core go.

you mean before the '14 season? or any particular performances you're thinking of?

 

[daphenaxa]

you mean before the '14 season? or any particular performances you're thinking of?

yeah I mean before 2015.

 

[Kittysk8s]

Gkelly has answered the thread question in a thoughtful and clear way.
Thank you!
My conclusion: In the last third of his FP at NHK, he lost a bit of steam and his edges got shallower, however, if you watch the first 2/3s of his FP you can see he has great flow and speed across the ice, seamless transitions into his jumps, and continued speed while doing fast turns and steps. Therefore, on the whole his edge work was good. -Still room for improvement for the slowing down at the end ( as most skaters do at the end of their programs).

Agree with you and Gkelly. I would also add that Yuzuru is focused on getting that 4Lo consistent this year on top of the rest of his other worldly tech content. When Tracy Wilson was on TSL she made the comment that they build in his "line" as the season progresses due to the high tech content. So if in fact any of his edges were shallower @ NHK, this could be the reason. I watched but didn't think he was slow or edges shallow; only that it isn't perfect yet which can be said of most programs early season.