Has CoP Destroyed Asada?

[Blades of Passion]

Interesting logic. It seems to me that you are making futile attempts to maintain your hypothetical theory that Yu-Na should not do edge jumps better than Mao because she is not much talented in edge jumps.

If you want to argue that Yu-Na's salchow is not good because she messed it up twice, apply the same statistics to Mao's salchow and also to Yu-Na's other jumps such as Lutz which she failed quite a few times. The very statistics you mentioned proves that your hypothetical theory is wrong.

It would be helpful if you (and others) did not put words in my mouth.

I never said Yu-Na's 3Sal wasn't good. I said it wasn't as strong as her toepick jumps and that Mao has performed the 3Sal just as well as Yu-Na in competition and that Mao would consistently perform it if there was incentive to do so.

 

[steyn]

^
As far as I remember the only evidence you have provided so far to support your claim that "Yu-Na's 3S is not as strong as her toepick jumps" is the statistics that she failed two times in the competition. So naturally I ask you to apply the same standard and see what happens for Mao's 3S or Yu-Na's other jumps such as Lutz. If you don't have any other argument, your claim is groundless.

 

[Kwanford Wife]

Then again Destroyed is a too strong a word to use, it is not as if she quit skating because of bad form. What next if she performs 2 clean programs will we call her Mao, The Phoenix Bird.

True dat..

Lets review all the bad choices Tarasova and Mao has made:

1.) 3 3Axel - okay who's brilliant idea is this? If Mao messes up 1 of the Axel she might as well say goodbye to an Olympic medal. Look at her short if she either pops her Axel, falls, or underrotates gets a big chunk of her score, she also won't get marks for a 2axel because she can only do 1. And since she doesn't do a 3/3 anymore the 3Axel is her only way to get her a huge score.

2.) Musical Choices - okay Masquerade wasn't really met with great enthusiasm as her long program last year... so they made it to her short this year? What is the logic in that? Plus in Olympic year they picked Bells of Moscow to perform to? What the heck! I can't imagine anybody performing to that music in an Olympic year except if they are super duper fans of twilight and they want Dracula's theme song to skate to. Not to mention the program has little content other than the big tricks and the straight line footwork. and it doesn't suit Mao... and did I mention I hate the program?

3.) Costume - Okay Mao your dresses the seasons has been lovely where did you get your LP dress this year?

I've been trying to get Fashion added as a PCS element for years now... one day...one day...

I came to the realization this weekend that although the Japanese ladies' team is one of the deepest in the world today, they're not as solid as they first appear. Mao is having problems. Nakano has gotten thus far and no further. Ando alternately shines and droops--nerves, possibly, and who could blame her. Suzuki is a delight but new and not yet proven. Suguri is good but not a top contender except in very rare circumstances.

So this year, the only truly formidable national team is...the Korean team.

I agree with all of Olympia's post... its like Michael Jackson's music or better yet - Toby Keith, just because its popular, doesn't make it good. Japan has a deep bench, but none are unbeatable. I'm not even sure if Korea is unbeatable... but it might prove to be if no one else steps up their game.

 

[bekalc]

[
So this year, the only truly formidable national team is...the Korean team.

Na. I have a hard time thinking that amongst Mao, Miki, Suzuki that at least one of those girls won't medal at the Olympics. Unless Kostner, Joannie, Yu-na all skate really well, and Mao skates very poorly I see one of those three on the podium. Japan also has a shot at a men's medal.

 

[Blades of Passion]

As far as I remember the only evidence you have provided so far to support your claim that "Yu-Na's 3S is not as strong as her toepick jumps" is the statistics that she failed two times in the competition.

Look at the GOE's.

Yu-Na gets superior height and distance on her toepick jumps.

It's not a bad jump for her at all, but it's definitely not her strongest. Mao has performed the jump just as well.

Ando and Rochette have the best Triple Salchow.

 

[Kwanford Wife]

Look at the GOE's.

Yu-Na gets superior height and distance on her toepick jumps.

It's not a bad jump for her at all, but it's definitely not her strongest. Mao has performed the jump just as well.

Ando and Rochette have the best Triple Salchow.

Blades - why do you even bother?? You've made a very valid point and have engaged in a very valiant battle to get your point across... Actually, I'v found your reasoning sound but its not clouded with bot-logic and therefore...

 

[Blades of Passion]

I'm a bot bounty-hunter.

Enacted by your love to search and destroy all (non-Kwan) extremist fans!

 

[Kwanford Wife]

I'm a bot bounty-hunter.

Enacted by your love to search and destroy all (non-Kwan) extremist fans!

True dat... it is the best spectator sport... never mind. carry on...you're doing a great job!!!

 

[ayayukiituka]

I read through all posts.
What i think is she'll perfectly come back if she has a great talent...like Miki and Lu.
I hope,of course,she could do her best performance at Olimpic games though.

By the way what she should first is to know her charm point and to correct her jumps.i'd love to see her jumps look light again

 

[Kwanford Wife]

I read through all posts.
What i think is she'll perfectly come back if she has a great talent...like Miki and Lu.
I hope,of course,she could do her best performance at Olimpic games though.

By the way what she should first is to know her charm point and to correct her jumps.i'd love to see her jumps look light again

What a sweet post!! Please explain the "Charm Point" further. I'd like to understand what this is...thank you.

 

[ayayukiituka]

Well that means strong point. floating skating and beauty-this is hers.

Maybe she thinks it's 3A,so trys that three times a one competetion.
But you know fans love her whole performance not only that high-risk jumps!!
So i think she should know that.

 

[Olympia]

Ayayukiituka, I agree with you exactly! Her "charm point" is indeed her "floating skating." That's one of the best descriptions of what I love about her. Even YuNa (whom I also love and admire) doesn't have the particular lightness of movement that Mao has. Because of that, I hope that she excels at the Olympics, and even more, that she stays in and improves until she's unbeatable in 2014.

There are skaters who stay on my "favorite list" forever, and they're generally the ones who have that kind of smoothness and--well, floating skating. Some of them are ballet types, and others are more of the jumper type, but all of them seem to skate from somewhere within the music. Gordeyeva, even as a singles skater, has that, as well as Yuka Sato, and of course Michelle Kwan and Janet Lynn. Alissa Czisny has it by the bucketful (if only she'd jump consistently!). I see it in Sasha as well. Mao is definitely in their company. That's not something you lose if you've got it to begin with.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Mao is a beautiful skater using the wrong kind of music. She is not a dramatic actress but a joyful one. The C#Concerto is a downer. Reminds me of John Dunne's poetry: For Whom the Bells Tolls; They Toll for Thee! Scary.

Too late to change, but next year something upbeat, and we will have her back again.

 

[janetfan]

Mao is a beautiful skater using the wrong kind of music. She is not a dramatic actress but a joyful one. The C#Concerto is a downer. Reminds me of John Dunne's poetry: For Whom the Bells Tolls; They Toll for Thee! Scary.

Too late to change, but next year something upbeat, and we will have her back again.

How upbeat do you think Mao can be with such tight UR and edge calls?
She may continue to struggle for a year or two until she can fix some technical problems.

We may not like Mao's music but it is her scores that are killing her going back to Worlds. She is not a very good CoP skater right now.
She is OK, but seems to have fallen into the middle of the pack.

It's not the dress, and it's not the music, it's not the choreo, it's only one thing that is hurting Mao.

It is the reason she is doing three 3A's. She can't do an acceptable lutz and all of her 3x3's are getting downgraded. Even a few of her double jumps have gotten dinged.

 

[antmanb]

Blades - why do you even bother?? You've made a very valid point and have engaged in a very valiant battle to get your point across... Actually, I'v found your reasoning sound but its not clouded with bot-logic and therefore...

Oh come on KW, you know i love you but arguing that Mao's triple salchow is aboutt eh same or equal as Yuna's triple salchow is a little bit like arguing that Kwan's 3S/3Lp combination is about the same or equal as Irina's.

I'm certainly not a Yuna-bot (I like both Mao and Yuna but neither can even begin to stir anything like the emotion in me that either Michelle or Irina did) and my watching of the ladies has gone back to "if i can be bothered to watch it" like in the pre-Kwan days.

But statements from a poster that Mao's salchow is equal to Yuna's, while praising Mao's loop to the rafters compare to Yuna's is firstly just wrong, and secondly more "bot" like in favour of Mao.

And i can say that extremely objectively since neither are Kwan!

Ant

 

[steyn]

Look at the GOE's.

Yu-Na gets superior height and distance on her toepick jumps.

It's not a bad jump for her at all, but it's definitely not her strongest.

Great!
If you had said this way from the beginning, I would have had no reason to object your opinion. As I already wrote, I think your opinion is OK as long as your argument has a valid point. Your GOE argument is much more sensible and merits a further discussion. However I repeat again that you never use the statistics in arguing Yu-Na's 3S is not great especially when comparing with Mao's 3S, because the logic is wrong.

Mao has performed the jump just as well.

Now we can discuss this in a more constructive way. You said that Mao did not do 3S because 2A with GOE+1 is as good as 3S and so she did not need it in most cases. But I would say it is not quite right. Pointwise, your argument would make sense only if Mao does not get any positive GOE with her salchow. But then it means her 3S is worse than, say, Yu-Na's because her 3S usually gets positive GOE. This is contradictory to your claim that Mao's 3S is as good as Yu-Na's.

So either give up (i) your claim that Mao does not do 3S because she does not need it OR (ii) Mao's 3S is as good as Yu-Na's, because (i) is not consistent with (ii).

Also there is another point to consider. Mao is doing 3T this season but why not 3S which has higher base point? According to your theory, she is an edge jumper and would consider 3S easier than 3T. In other words, she has enough motivation to do 3S this season. So why not getting higher point with easier element? Can you explain this "with your theory"?

I repeat that I do not object your opinion itself (everyone is entitled to have his/her own opinion) but your way of reasoning.

 

[figurefan11]

Yu-Na better than Mao in jump?? Never true.

First, Mao has great triple flip and combination while Yu-Na does cheating jump on flip, you can know this because she gets wrong edges and ! marks for years. Mao is not doing triple flip combination this season because she can do more superior 3A even in short and two of them in long. The reason that she isn't doing 3F combination this season is because simply she don't needs to, but she can do them perfect anytime she wants if she wants to. So 3F Mao better. (Mao 1:0 Yuna)

Second, Triple Axel. Mao is the only lady who can do the 3A in the whole world while Yu-Na can't even try it. 3A is the most superior jump of all in ladies. Her 3A is even better than some men. I think everyone know that Mao has best axel in the world. So 3A vs 2A Mao definitely win. (Mao 2:0 Yuna)

Third, Triple Lutz. Mao is not doing 3Lz because she is getting unfair(in my view) judging in CoP. Some say she is flutzing but she is not. It may look like that way because she use mohawk turn when taking off and is so fast and the camera angles can do the trick, but she definitely use outside edge just before take-off same as Yuna and little deeper than Joannie if you look closer. But they suspiciously started to give Mao '!' and even 'e' from some point, when Yuna came to senior level. I'm not suggesting anything but isn't the timing *too* perfect? Anyway Yuna has been doing 3Lz in competition(a little overscored GEO and looks little bit UR for me IMHO) and Mao hasn't been doing it, so it's impossible to compare or say Yuna's 3Lz is better than Mao now, until she does it again. So I think tie would be fair. (Mao 3:1 Yuna)

Fourth, Triple Loop. Do I have to even bother explaining this? Mao's triple loop is one of the best no doubt. Yuna can't even do it. She crashed it everytime she tried. Not much of an argument in 3Lo. No doubt Mao better. (Mao 4:1 Yuna)

Fifth, Triple Toe. I think it would be fair to give a tie. I prefer Mao's toe jumps better but they're both doing it well, so draw. (Mao 5:2 Yuna)

Sixth, Triple Salchow. I remeber Mao landing beautiful 3 Salchows in competitions while Yuna fails a lot of her 3S just like at 09 worlds. I heard somewhere that she tends to fail a lot of her 3S in practice too. So I would say Mao better in salchow overall but I'll just give it a tie.(Because I don't wanna get stomped by those crazy Korean fans ) ( Mao 6:3 Yuna )


There is no way that Yuna is better than Mao in jump.
And JOANNIE better than Mao?? OH PLEASE.. that is just ridiculous.
The problem Mao started to struggle is because under this crappy COP, corrupted judges are clearly favoring *certain* players.(I'm not gonna say who )

Oh by the way, I'm not a crazy Mao fan, I like yuna and Joannie too, just my honest opinion about comparison.

 

[janetfan]

Yu-Na better than Mao in jump?? Never true.

First, Mao has great triple flip and combination while Yu-Na does cheating jump on flip, you can know this because she gets wrong edges and ! marks for years. Mao is not doing triple flip combination this season because she can do more superior 3A even in short and two of them in long. The reason that she isn't doing 3F combination this season is because simply she don't needs to, but she can do them perfect anytime she wants if she wants to. So 3F Mao better. (Mao 1:0 Yuna)

Second, Triple Axel. Mao is the only lady who can do the 3A in the whole world while Yu-Na can't even try it. 3A is the most superior jump of all in ladies. Her 3A is even better than some men. I think everyone know that Mao has best axel in the world. So 3A vs 2A Mao definitely win. (Mao 2:0 Yuna)

Third, Triple Lutz. Mao is not doing 3Lz because she is getting unfair(in my view) judging in CoP. Some say she is flutzing but she is not. It may look like that way because she use mohawk turn when taking off and is so fast and the camera angles can do the trick, but she definitely use outside edge just before take-off same as Yuna and little deeper than Joannie if you look closer. But they suspiciously started to give Mao '!' and even 'e' from some point, when Yuna came to senior level. I'm not suggesting anything but isn't the timing *too* perfect? Anyway Yuna has been doing 3Lz in competition(a little overscored GEO and looks little bit UR for me IMHO) and Mao hasn't been doing it, so it's impossible to compare or say Yuna's 3Lz is better than Mao now, until she does it again. So I think tie would be fair. (Mao 3:1 Yuna)

Fourth, Triple Loop. Do I have to even bother explaining this? Mao's triple loop is one of the best no doubt. Yuna can't even do it. She crashed it everytime she tried. Not much of an argument in 3Lo. No doubt Mao better. (Mao 4:1 Yuna)

Fifth, Triple Toe. I think it would be fair to give a tie. I prefer Mao's toe jumps better but they're both doing it well, so draw. (Mao 5:2 Yuna)

Sixth, Triple Salchow. I remeber Mao landing beautiful 3 Salchows in competitions while Yuna fails a lot of her 3S just like at 09 worlds. I heard somewhere that she tends to fail a lot of her 3S in practice too. So I would say Mao better in salchow overall but I'll just give it a tie.(Because I don't wanna get stomped by those crazy Korean fans ) ( Mao 6:3 Yuna )


There is no way that Yuna is better than Mao in jump.
And JOANNIE better than Mao?? OH PLEASE.. that is just ridiculous.
The problem Mao started to struggle is because under this crappy COP, corrupted judges are clearly favoring *certain* players.(I'm not gonna say who )

Oh by the way, I'm not a crazy Mao fan, I like yuna and Joannie too, just my honest opinion about comparison.

After reading your post I believe you need an eye checkup :yes:

 

[figurefan11]

I think you need a better pair of glasses

Why? Is Yuna-glass you're wearing is better?
No thanks

I made logical comparison based on my opinion and somehow you're saying it's wrong with one line without any valid point(which is called crap you know). Maybe Yuna's not a better jumper must've ticked you off? huh?

 

[janetfan]

Why? Is Yuna-glass you're wearing is better?
No thanks

Fair enough, and glad you knew I was kidding.
I think seeing Mao this season speaks for itself. Her jumps have become a major problem. I would be surprised to see her win a medal in Vancouver and certainly don't see her coming close to Yuna's scores anytime soon.

Your comments about the difficult 3A's reminds me of the Pairs competition from SLC.
A program is only more difficult - if it is executed cleanly. Making mistakes doesn't prove a program or jump is harder - it only proves the skater can't execute the them properly under pressure. :yes: