High fashion awards: Preparation and prediscussion | Page 2 | Golden Skate

High fashion awards: Preparation and prediscussion

icewhite

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 7, 2022
I've been a fashion designer, tailor and costumier for a long time. A loooooooonnnnnggg time. And yes, these days I mostly do figure skating costumes, which is enormous fun, especially when I get a skater who is willing to think "outside the box" and be a bit brave.

I think asking for nominations and people to vote is an invitation to all out fan wars. Which could be entertaining but is more likely to be, frankly, tedious and unpleasant for those not invested in defending their favourite skater at all costs.

I tend to award a Golden Cabbage award each season to the skater with the costume I consider the least attractive/most ghastly. Occasionally I award two Golden Cabbages, as I find disagreeing with myself to also be tedious and conducive to indigestion.

I also have a "Who Knew Knickers Were Optional?!" award, which usually goes to the same skater every season.

I'm not up for being on a panel, though, despite being perfectly qualified, as I don't like confrontation and war.

If anyone wants me, I'll be in my studio under a ton of Spandex and crystals... :cool:

I wonder why insist on doing it while so many people think it will go wild and end up as a successful invitation to another fan war?
Maybe we could just have a celebration of what we think best costumes the way we had celebrated best spins, best step sequences, best choreo etc. without any rankings and votes which seems so much safer way to do that? And by safer I also mean more fun and less meanness for everyone. Just because they added such a feature as voting does not mean you necessarily need to make use of it.
Myself I don't even see what such a vote would represent in the end of the day as we all know perfectly well that this forum is not representative of any wider population, by no means for figure skating fans or anything like that. So what's the use?

Okay. I don't really understand because I thought it would just be fun, but I really don't have to do this.

So I'm burying the project.
 

4everchan

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 7, 2015
Country
Martinique
Okay. I don't really understand because I thought it would just be fun, but I really don't have to do this.

So I'm burying the project.
or you could really just get a panel made and get rid of fan vote :) i like the idea of rewarding beautiful costumes. I understand your reaction though : you are offering something really nice but then, forum users are just simply cautioning you that it may not quite work out the way you'd like it to work out. It does suck... I sympathize with you but it's not too surprising. The reality is that this sport brings very different fans in : some are fans of the sport in general. They like many skaters for many different reasons related, usually, to skating ;) Some other fans get invested into the people first and the skaters second. Then you have the odd ones like me :) I'd say that I am a fan of the sport first and foremost : I love good skating and it doesn't matter who does it.... but I do have a few odd favourites I like because 1) national connection so being able to follow them since they were super young 2) emotional connection - oh look... a handsome guy!!!! or a genuinely nice guy or both (like my son Conrad) and I hate to admit it but there are few skaters I just do not like base on various reasons that are not limited to skating... (for instance skaters making political statements). In a fashion contest, I think I'd be very objective : I wouldn't pretend that Patrick Chan and Nathan Chen had the most stylish costumes though I admired their outfits, very much my style, just because I like them as skaters ;) but I can only speak for myself and having been on this forum for a long time, I have seen a lot of fans blinded with love. Nothing wrong with that, unless you ask these fans to vote on an award ;)
 

TallyT

Record Breaker
Joined
Apr 23, 2018
Country
Australia
Maybe just have a vote for the year just past, and simply have people pick 3 of their favourite alltime costumes to post and celebrate without the competition there?
 

icewhite

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 7, 2022
or you could really just get a panel made and get rid of fan vote :) i like the idea of rewarding beautiful costumes. I understand your reaction though : you are offering something really nice but then, forum users are just simply cautioning you that it may not quite work out the way you'd like it to work out. It does suck... I sympathize with you but it's not too surprising. The reality is that this sport brings very different fans in : some are fans of the sport in general. They like many skaters for many different reasons related, usually, to skating ;) Some other fans get invested into the people first and the skaters second. Then you have the odd ones like me :) I'd say that I am a fan of the sport first and foremost : I love good skating and it doesn't matter who does it.... but I do have a few odd favourites I like because 1) national connection so being able to follow them since they were super young 2) emotional connection - oh look... a handsome guy!!!! or a genuinely nice guy or both (like my son Conrad) and I hate to admit it but there are few skaters I just do not like base on various reasons that are not limited to skating... (for instance skaters making political statements). In a fashion contest, I think I'd be very objective : I wouldn't pretend that Patrick Chan and Nathan Chen had the most stylish costumes though I admired their outfits, very much my style, just because I like them as skaters ;) but I can only speak for myself and having been on this forum for a long time, I have seen a lot of fans blinded with love. Nothing wrong with that, unless you ask these fans to vote on an award ;)

it's alright, I really don't need to push through with this
I thought it was a harmless thing; if people think it's not, I'll just leave it be
I should work more anyway :wink:
 

icewhite

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 7, 2022
Maybe just have a vote for the year just past, and simply have people pick 3 of their favourite alltime costumes to post and celebrate without the competition there?

thanks for the suggestion
but I think with the reactions I'll better not touch this anymore
 

labgoat

Working on Costumes contest & REWATCHES
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 3, 2007
Country
United-States
I wonder why insist on doing it while so many people think it will go wild and end up as a successful invitation to another fan war?
Maybe we could just have a celebration of what we think best costumes the way we had celebrated best spins, best step sequences, best choreo etc. without any rankings and votes which seems so much safer way to do that? And by safer I also mean more fun and less meanness for everyone. Just because they added such a feature as voting does not mean you necessarily need to make use of it.
Myself I don't even see what such a vote would represent in the end of the day as we all know perfectly well that this forum is not representative of any wider population, by no means for figure skating fans or anything like that. So what's the use?
This is what I think will ultimately keep the peace. Nominations could be accepted by @icewhite and team. Just getting accepted as a nominee will be an honor and reward without invoking a fan war over who wazrobbed.

I will add for WTFabric we had to get permission to have a vote and it must be set-up by GS staff.
 

labgoat

Working on Costumes contest & REWATCHES
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 3, 2007
Country
United-States
Okay. I don't really understand because I thought it would just be fun, but I really don't have to do this.

So I'm burying the project.
Please don't be discouraged. Set up private chat and invite your team and discuss all this in the background. I think you can make it work if you can deal with how to deal with the fan wars. I for one look forward to nominating some very nice costumes for the historical events.

We talked for awhile before going ahead with our contest and how to make it work for us, for fans and how to keep it fun and meaningful. Please feel free to privately talk with me and others to clarify your goals so you can have your dream project. I have no agenda just ears and some ideas on how you might achieve your goals.
 
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labgoat

Working on Costumes contest & REWATCHES
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 3, 2007
Country
United-States
Ideas for awards: You and your team decide, only juried vote by you and your team.
  • Best overall - no voting, jury selected from nominees, as many accepted to list as you decide fit YOUR criteria, which you list prior to nominations
  • Best overall costumes by Olympic cycle (1988,1992,1994, 1998, 2002, 2006, 2010, 2014, 2018, 2022) - let fans nominate and chose however many best you like (say top 5-10 in whatever categories). There is not as much available prior to 1988 so those could be a Hall of Fame special award for folks like Peggy Fleming, John Curry, Toller Cranston and Sonja Henie, Jackson Haines)
  • Best in whatever categories you want to have - don't let contest get too big that it becomes a burden. It needs to be fun for you as well. maybe change up special category each year - best bling, best accessory...
  • Figure out ahead of time how to answer your worst wuzrobbed critic.
 
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Arigato

Medalist
Joined
Nov 13, 2021
Country
United-States
I like much of this, but can we have just one show and one gala, separate from the rest, as the most beautiful - and character pitch-perfect - costume of all time never saw competitive ice?
View attachment 7987

I'm telling you this as a Yuzu supporter - this is about costumes. Period. Not who is wearing them. I could take what Yuzu is wearing in that photo and put it on Nathan, Yuma, or Adam. It would look absurd. To be frank, I'd put my hands over my face. But it works for Yuzu! And if the only person who could make it look great is Yuzu, guess what, the costume isn't that great. It just means it's something Yuzu looks great in. That's a huge difference. Design houses around the world would have to file bankruptcy if the clothing they designed couldn't look great on more than one human being.
 

saine

Medalist
Joined
Jun 11, 2023
Country
Canada
I'm telling you this as a Yuzu supporter - this is about costumes. Period. Not who is wearing them. I could take what Yuzu is wearing in that photo and put it on Nathan, Yuma, or Adam. It would look absurd. To be frank, I'd put my hands over my face. But it works for Yuzu! And if the only person who could make it look great is Yuzu, guess what, the costume isn't that great. It just means it's something Yuzu looks great in. That's a huge difference. Design houses around the world would have to file bankruptcy if the clothing they designed couldn't look great on more than one human being.
For a custom costume, I would expect that it would be made to look good on the specific skater. It also has to work with their program too. If it doesn't look good on Nathan Chen, then it's because it wasn't made for him or his program style.

The only figure skating designers who have to worry about making costumes that work on more than one skater are ones who are working with synchro teams. Much respect to them for making all the different skaters look good.
 

Arigato

Medalist
Joined
Nov 13, 2021
Country
United-States
For a custom costume, I would expect that it would be made to look good on the specific skater. It also has to work with their program too. If it doesn't look good on Nathan Chen, then it's because it wasn't made for him or his program style.

The only figure skating designers who have to worry about making costumes that work on more than one skater are ones who are working with synchro teams. Much respect to them for making all the different skaters look good.

I could take a Vera Wang design worn by Nathan and put it on Adam SHF. It would look great. I could take a Satomi Ito design worn by Shoma and put it on Shun Sato and it would look great. I could keep going . . .
 

saine

Medalist
Joined
Jun 11, 2023
Country
Canada
I could take a Vera Wang design worn by Nathan and put it on Adam SHF. It would look great. I could take a Satomi Ito design worn by Shoma and put it on Shun Sato and it would look great. I could keep going . . .
But could you take a Mathieu Caron worn by Shoma and make it look good for Adam and his programs? Or Shun look good competing in Nathan's Vera Wang? They have different styles, that's what I want the designers to take into account.

To take it to a previous example, Kaori's costumes were noted for blandness this season. It turns out the same designer for her free costume also did the free costume for Kaiya Ruiter (the one that debuted at Skate Canada International). Neither of them are bad costumes, but they're similar.
 

Arigato

Medalist
Joined
Nov 13, 2021
Country
United-States
But could you take a Mathieu Caron worn by Shoma and make it look good for Adam and his programs? Or Shun look good competing in Nathan's Vera Wang? They have different styles, that's what I want the designers to take into account.

To take it to a previous example, Kaori's costumes were noted for blandness this season. It turns out the same designer for her free costume also did the free costume for Kaiya Ruiter (the one that debuted at Skate Canada International). Neither of them are bad costumes, but they're similar.

Actually, Shun could look good in Vera Wang. But he'd look 'better' in something done by Ito. And, no, Shun is not one of my favorites so if someone thinks I'm saying that because I think he'd look good in anything, they'd be way off the mark. Donovan had a costume in black that Shun Sato could wear and look great. So? What I am reiterating is looking at costumes for their individual merit. Shoma wore an Ito for his 2018 OLYG Team SP. The camera pulled in tight as his head was tilted down and I still recall saying out loud "Holy **** will you look at that work?" I could see every detail at the top of that costume without even seeing Shoma's face. And that's my point. It was all about the costume.
 

Magill

Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 23, 2020
I could take a Vera Wang design worn by Nathan and put it on Adam SHF. It would look great. I could take a Satomi Ito design worn by Shoma and put it on Shun Sato and it would look great. I could keep going . . .
But could you take a Mathieu Caron worn by Shoma and make it look good for Adam and his programs? Or Shun look good competing in Nathan's Vera Wang? They have different styles, that's what I want the designers to take into account.

To take it to a previous example, Kaori's costumes were noted for blandness this season. It turns out the same designer for her free costume also did the free costume for Kaiya Ruiter (the one that debuted at Skate Canada International). Neither of them are bad costumes, but they're similar.
Well, it needs to be remembered these costumes are not casual wear for anyone to look great in but stage outfits created for a specific skater to perform a specific program. It needs to serve well this skater, fit their general style plus the program's requirements, plus this particular piece of music and whatever specific requirements come with it. I believe it is in this context that the costumes should be perceived and evaluated. It does not matter how anyone else would look in these costumes at all, the only thing that matters is how well they suit this particular skater (or skaters, if it is a team) for this particular programme. IMHO, if they suit anyone for any program, they are just a mass product bought at a chain store as opposed to tailor-made high fashion created for this particular client for this particular occasion. Which is what I would actually expect from best costume nominees.
Haku costume here in question was made for Yuzu impersonating Haku, a boy and a dragon in one person, while skating to music from Spirited Away movie, performing a lyrical programme with a substantial amount of beautiful spins and turns and spirals, which this particular costume actually enhanced and made look absolutely amazing. That's why many people believe it a masterpiece, not because it would look great out-of-its-context in an exhibition hall. It was not made for any programme with a lot of jumping. It was not made for Nathan skating to Elton John - it would look completely ridiculous with this music - or whatever else he was skating to, as none of it was anyhow connected to Japan and its anime movies. Moreover, it would not fit Nathan as a person or a skater, I guess he would not even know how to move in it to make it work. And it's alright, it was not meant for him. If their costumes were interchangeable, it would actually mean none of the designers have made their job properly.
 

el henry

Go have some cake. And come back with jollity.
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 3, 2014
Country
United-States
Donovan's costumes tell a tale, particularly the exhibition costumes. Unless another skater is skating a mariachi or lucha libre program, they would pretty silly in his charro or luchador costumes.

Donovan's bling is perfect for Donovan. I can think of very few others who could carry it off, and why would they? :)
 

Arigato

Medalist
Joined
Nov 13, 2021
Country
United-States
Well, it needs to be remembered these costumes are not casual wear for anyone to look great in but stage outfits created for a specific skater to perform a specific program. It needs to serve well this skater, fit their general style plus the program's requirements, plus this particular piece of music and whatever specific requirements come with it. I believe it is in this context that the costumes should be perceived and evaluated. It does not matter how anyone else would look in these costumes at all, the only thing that matters is how well they suit this particular skater (or skaters, if it is a team) for this particular programme. IMHO, if they suit anyone for any program, they are just a mass product bought at a chain store as opposed to tailor-made high fashion created for this particular client for this particular occasion. Which is what I would actually expect from best costume nominees.
Haku costume here in question was made for Yuzu impersonating Haku, a boy and a dragon in one person, while skating to music from Spirited Away movie, performing a lyrical programme with a substantial amount of beautiful spins and turns and spirals, which this particular costume actually enhanced and made look absolutely amazing. That's why many people believe it a masterpiece, not because it would look great out-of-its-context in an exhibition hall. It was not made for any programme with a lot of jumping. It was not made for Nathan skating to Elton John - it would look completely ridiculous with this music - or whatever else he was skating to, as none of it was anyhow connected to Japan and its anime movies. Moreover, it would not fit Nathan as a person or a skater, I guess he would not even know how to move in it to make it work. And it's alright, it was not meant for him. If their costumes were interchangeable, it would actually mean none of the designers have made their job properly.

If any one person thinks they are judge and jury for what best serves a skater's program, then table the whole project. I would only accept the skater's opinion. Anything less would be self-serving rather that actually serving the skater.
 

el henry

Go have some cake. And come back with jollity.
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 3, 2014
Country
United-States
If any one person thinks they are judge and jury for what best serves a skater's program, then table the whole project. I would only accept the skater's opinion. Anything less would be self-serving rather that actually serving the skater.

This whole exercise is our opinions as fans, not the skaters.

So I am very interested in how fans evaluate the costumes for purposes of a thread.

Saying that such opinions are self serving is also the ultimate in self-serving. :)
 

Arigato

Medalist
Joined
Nov 13, 2021
Country
United-States
This whole exercise is our opinions as fans, not the skaters.

So I am very interested in how fans evaluate the costumes for purposes of a thread.

Saying that such opinions are self serving is also the ultimate in self-serving. :)

Thanks for missing the point.
 

Magill

Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 23, 2020
If any one person thinks they are judge and jury for what best serves a skater's program, then table the whole project. I would only accept the skater's opinion. Anything less would be self-serving rather that actually serving the skater.
I guess if Yuzu did not feel this costume served the program well, he would not have used it for two seasons now. He would have changed it, like he did with some others. As simple as this. So I think we've got his opinion. :)
 

saine

Medalist
Joined
Jun 11, 2023
Country
Canada
If any one person thinks they are judge and jury for what best serves a skater's program, then table the whole project. I would only accept the skater's opinion. Anything less would be self-serving rather that actually serving the skater.
What about the competition judges? They give out costume deductions if they don't think it best serves the skater's program. If the costume doesn't look good on the skater, or they're not comfortable wearing it, it'll affect how the judges perceive them. For the skaters, the opinions of the judges count a lot towards how they choose their costume.
 
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