How Important is the Spiral Sequence? | Page 2 | Golden Skate

How Important is the Spiral Sequence?

gkelly said:
The most recent rules you'll find in ISU communication no. 1445, which you can download here:
http://www.isu.org/vsite/vnavsite/page/directory/0,10853,4844-130127-131435-nav-list,00.html

This includes the current list of features to achieve levels 2-4, some further descriptions/definitions pertaining to spiral sequences, and a list of GOE reductions for certain kinds of errors or lacks in various elements, similar to the list of short program deductions in the old system.

What you won't find there is the description of how to judge the GOE in the first place before those specific reductions.

You can find a GOE chart from 2004 in communication no. 1284 here:

http://www.isu.org/vsite/vnavsite/page/directory/0,10853,4844-168506-185724-nav-list,00.html

That would be more useful for the positive than the negative GOEs.
Click to expand...
Interesting in the first link it says Spiral positions on a straight line are ignored and not counted in the number of positions.

Would that mean if a skater flaunts a spiral on a straight line in front of the judges that the spiral would be ignored?

Also the link says only the first three spirals are considered for Level scoring, so why do I have to sit through 5 of them?

I presume the spiral used as a transition into a camel spin or jump is not scored but the spin or jump are. Correct?

Joe
 
Joesitz said:
Interesting in the first link it says Spiral positions on a straight line are ignored and not counted in the number of positions.

Would that mean if a skater flaunts a spiral on a straight line in front of the judges that the spiral would be ignored?
Click to expand...

It would count as a transition.

Also the link says only the first three spirals are considered for Level scoring, so why do I have to sit through 5 of them?
Click to expand...

You won't this season, from skaters who have kept up with this year's rule changes.

I presume the spiral used as a transition into a camel spin or jump is not scored but the spin or jump are. Correct?
Click to expand...

Right.
 
gkelly said:
The most recent rules you'll find in ISU communication no. 1445, which you can download here:
http://www.isu.org/vsite/vnavsite/page/directory/0,10853,4844-130127-131435-nav-list,00.html

This includes the current list of features to achieve levels 2-4, some further descriptions/definitions pertaining to spiral sequences, and a list of GOE reductions for certain kinds of errors or lacks in various elements, similar to the list of short program deductions in the old system.

What you won't find there is the description of how to judge the GOE in the first place before those specific reductions.

You can find a GOE chart from 2004 in communication no. 1284 here:

http://www.isu.org/vsite/vnavsite/page/directory/0,10853,4844-168506-185724-nav-list,00.html

That would be more useful for the positive than the negative GOEs.
Click to expand...

:thumbsup:Thank you
 
The rule about a straight line not counting is very unfortunate. I guess the Charlotte Spiral won't be coming back after all.
 
I just hope that this year I don't have to see the exact same spiral sequence in every program done by every women!!
 
But, you have to take into account that it is much easier to get a level 3 or 4 in a spiral sequence than in a footwork sequence. So, even if there was the option of doing footwork instead, most would opt to do the spirals anyway because they get more points. Unless judges started actually giving out level 4s for footwork, OR writing clear rules on how to get levels that were not subject to opinion (one judge's "full" body movement is another judge's "modest"), OR properly using negative GOE for bad spirals, then... I don't see it happening.
 
persimmon said:
But, you have to take into account that it is much easier to get a level 3 or 4 in a spiral sequence than in a footwork sequence.
Click to expand...

For ladies, you mean? But anyway, they should just make level 3-4 spirals harder to achieve!
 
still giving the option of having the second step sequence a footwork or spiral sequence means that at lest some women will opt for the second step sequence, so at least there will be some variety
 
Mafke said:
Shame on you for not mentioning her pioneering medical research!
Click to expand...

Maybe one day, why not? Her dad went to Harvard, her sister's at MIT grad school (computer science, IIRC), she's got the smarts.

At this rate, she could get her OGM by 16, retire like Sarah & Tara, then go on to have a normal college life. :clap::clap::clap:
 
Joesitz said:
At one point in the Ladies' programmes, they will execute a series of varied spirals. To me, it disrupts the program. I would prefer to see these spirals, if they contribute anything at all to the technical part of the program to be spread out as moves in the field.

Other than giving another example of 'basics' do you see the Spiral Sequence as important as jumps and spins?

Joe
Click to expand...

Hey Joe:

I agree with you totally here. It seems to have become "now this is where I do my spiral sequence." Which usually consists of a variety of positions - usually very brief - not very well executed by said skater. I almost find it jarring at times and wish the skater would do only one or two spirals at the most. To me "less is more" when it comes to this kind of field move.

Karen Magnussen used to execute an awesome spiral that could encompass the whole turn of the rink should she choose to do so. However, she also used to use a spiral to add something interesting on at the end or use it to embelish another move - like her famous Ina Bauer move which she sometimes did before executing a jump.

I really hate the way these ladies now just move mechanically from one position to the next and barely even hit a true spiral position. It also gets really boring seeing one after the other doing the same thing.

Great Topic!
 
I'm not sure what exactly a step sequence. Is is it:

a) a sweeping Rocker down the center of the ice with full body leans? (which usually gives prelude to a jump,)

b) a combination of rockers, counters; three and bracket turns and maybe mohawk and choctaw turns thrown in?

c) or what Kurt Browning has been doing for years both competitively and in exhibitions where all the above are constantly being used during his programs; plus a few single forbidden jumps, like half axels, inside axels, mazurkas, etc.

If the answer is c) I would suggest that the Ladies stick to the spiral sequence. Much easier than competing with Kurt. ;)
 
I think in theory it's supposed to be C (his Casablanca program as well as a few others are used to train the officials to notice what good moves in teh field/steps are)
 
Joesitz said:
I'm not sure what exactly a step sequence. Is is it:

a) a sweeping Rocker down the center of the ice with full body leans? (which usually gives prelude to a jump,)

b) a combination of rockers, counters; three and bracket turns and maybe mohawk and choctaw turns thrown in?

c) or what Kurt Browning has been doing for years both competitively and in exhibitions where all the above are constantly being used during his programs; plus a few single forbidden jumps, like half axels, inside axels, mazurkas, etc.

If the answer is c) I would suggest that the Ladies stick to the spiral sequence. Much easier than competing with Kurt. ;)
Click to expand...

I agree with C - unless you are Shae-Lynn Bourne - I would not even attempt to compete with Kurt when it comes to foot work.
 
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