I have a question for Asians

[Grgranny]

I hope no one takes this the wrong way. In the 60's we visited my brother's family in Santa Barbara, CA and I said something about Oriental's and he said not to call them that, they are Asians. I am sure he meant calling them Orientals was a put down, but I had never heard of that. Is that the way you feel?

 

[Longhornliz]

I'm not asian... but I think that oriental is what you call objects like rugs and lamps... people are not called oriental they are asian.

 

[Grgranny]

When I was young, they were called Orientals. Anyway, they were where I was raised.

 

[Mathman]

GrGranny, I think on this issue we have to give way to changing times. The 10th edition of Webster's Dictionary says:

Oriental: "A member of one of the indigenous peoples of the Orient."

When they came out with the 11th edition they changed it to:

Oriental (sometimes offensive): "Asian; esp: one who is a native of east Asia or is of east Asian descent."

No word is good or bad except in the intention of the speaker. I guess over the years some people started saying "oriental" in a mean-spirited way, so eventually the word itself became tainted.

"The Orient" just means "the East," from the Latin word for sunrise. "To orient yourself" literally means to figure out which direction is East (so you can face the right way for your morning prayer, if you are Muslim.)

MM

 

[nthuz]

I believe it is disrespectful to call a group of people by a name not created by them, but for them.

http://www.valt.helsinki.fi/agathon/2791_4.htm
"In Orientalism the basic distinction between the East and the West is accepted and the Orient is seen as an object instead of being the subject. Said finds Orientalism "more as a sign of European Atlantic power over the Orient than it is as a veridict discourse about the Orient"(Said 1978, p. 6). Orientalism promotes the difference between the familiar and the strange."

"In Orientalism the Orient became the negative imprint of the Occident. The Orient was seen as stagnant, irrational and despotic as a contrast case to explain the Occident, which was dynamic, rational and democratic by its
nature."



http://www.english.emory.edu/Bahri/Orientalism.html
"The Orient signifies a system of representations framed by political forces that brought the Orient into Western learning, Western consciousness, and Western empire. The Orient exists for the West, and is constructed by and in relation to the West. It is a mirror image of what is inferior and alien ("Other") to the West. "

Another interesting site:

http://www.wmich.edu/dialogues/texts/orientalism.htm

 

[Antilles]

I have Cambodian friends who refer to themselves and others as Oriental, but I know some people don't like the term. Unforunately, it's really an individual choice, and it can be difficult to avoid offending everyone. I know some people who prefer the term Latino to Hispanic, and some who prefer African American to black. However, some people find the "African" part offensive, saying they are not from Africa. I would hope that most people realize these terms are really not meant to be offensive.

 

[tharrtell]

GrGranny, my understanding is that the terminology changed in the 60's from Oriental to Asian. Ethinicity is further defined by country of origin such as Japanese-American or Chinese American, but the more general term Asian-American is used to bring different ethnicities together and provide power in numbers. Definitions of ethnicity are influenced by politics, economics, and social norms and are constantly changing.

 

[Ladskater]

I'm not asian... but I think that oriental is what you call objects like rugs and lamps... people are not called oriental they are asian.

Oriental - simply means "from the far east." Oriental did not denote an object, but people who came from the East - China for example. It's an old expression and certainly is not demeaning. It's no worse than calling us - caucasians (white people) - occidentals.

oc·ci·den·tal or Oc·ci·den·tal ( P ) Pronunciation Key (ks-dntl)
adj.
Of or relating to the countries of the Occident or their peoples or cultures; western.

n.
A native or inhabitant of an Occidental country; a westerner.

However, it has become "politically correct" to use the term Asian in place of Oriental. Here is a good explanation from the dictionary:

o·ri·en·tal ( P ) Pronunciation Key (ôr-ntl, r-)
adj.
often Oriental Of or relating to the countries of the Orient or their peoples or cultures; eastern.
Oriental Of or designating the biogeographic region that includes Asia south of the Himalaya Mountains and the islands of the Malay Archipelago.
Lustrous and valuable: oriental pearls.

Of or relating to a genuine or superior gem: an oriental ruby.
Relating to or designating corundum that resembles another stone in color.

n.
often Oriental Often Offensive. An Asian.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ori·ental·ly adv.
Usage Note: Asian is now strongly preferred in place of Oriental for persons native to Asia or descended from an Asian people. The usual objection to Orientalmeaning “eastern”is that it identifies Asian countries and peoples in terms of their location relative to Europe. However, this objection is not generally made of other Eurocentric terms such as Near and Middle Eastern. The real problem with Oriental is more likely its connotations stemming from an earlier era when Europeans viewed the regions east of the Mediterranean as exotic lands full of romance and intrigue, the home of despotic empires and inscrutable customs. At the least these associations can give Oriental a dated feel, and as a noun in contemporary contexts (as in the first Oriental to be elected from the district) it is now widely taken to be offensive. However, Oriental should not be thought of as an ethnic slur to be avoided in all situations. As with Asiatic, its use other than as an ethnonym, in phrases such as Oriental cuisine or Oriental medicine, is not usually considered objectionable.

 

[Kuchana]

When I was young, they were called Orientals. Anyway, they were where I was raised.

Where I was raised, they used the term Oriental as well. When I was a kid (and I'm Asian) people called me Oriental. I even called myself Oriental (I didn't know any better) but yet when I was older, I didn't like the word and instead used Asian. I think it also became more politically correct to do so. Thinking about the term, it does give a negative connotation in my opinon. Even now, there are a few that still use the term and call me Oriental. I get offended by that.

 

[Grgranny]

Glad to hear from all of you.

One thing I notice is that whatever anyone is calling someone, they decide (probably for good reasons) that it is negative and want to be called something else. Remember when negro changed to black and then African Americans. Now they're wanting Indians to be called Native Americans. I'm part Indian and it would not bother me to be called Indian. Of course, it would depend on how they did it. So, no matter what they want to be called, someone will use the term negatively. Of course, if they use the term White Trash, that is just negative all the way.

 

[Tonichelle]

I guess Alaska's again behind the times because that's how I hear a lot of people refer to Asians. So if I have typed it here and you've been offended, I'm sorry, it's how I was raised and I don't live in a typically politically correct family (I personally know too many people are so overly freaked out about being PC that they clam up, I don't ever want to be so worried about speaking that I don't). We're not out to offend, just don't try to keep up with some of the terms just because they change too fast... once most people around me start saying it all the time I catch on(and then they go and change the rules again).

I guess I'm just saying that I get offended that people just assume I am trying to offend when I'm not saying the right word. Don't scream discrimination and then discriminate (this is not directed to anyone or group in particular, just got told I was scum for not being more intune to the PC terms in History class tonight so I'm a bit on edge). Just know that different parts of the country have different ways of saying things

 

[dmr65]

Oh, I like this discussion and that we are being understanding.. I don't mean to get of topic, but I have somethings I wanted to share on the subject of... What do we call each other, or why do we.. Or just a little food for thought...

As a person who has some African, Indian= Natives originally from the land we call America, Irish and other additional wonderful lines of hurman's God created in me... What am I called? I love to include them all in me..

I do recall negro, colored, black and African American now... Indian's in America, are either called Native Americans, Natives.. I could be mistaken, but I once thought Lakota was mentioned... That could be a region of people.. So, what are people of African and Indian decent called in other countries, such as Canada?

When I looked at it as a whole, it's so sad.. We catagorize people and music. We have black gospel and gospel.. When did that change? A long time ago when I use to go to the music store frequenly, I would just see just gospel... Now it's cataorized by the race of people, just because another race of people enjoy it to, and put their twist on it... Now that we had, Vanilla Ice and now M&M and other white rappers, should they re-catagorize rap was black rap and white rap? hwell:


I think wanting the know the differences is fine and wonderful if you do it to educate oneself, because you find it wonderful, as a friend of mine does... One could be offended by her enjoyment, unless they understood she researches this information, because she finds what God has created so facinating.. She enjoys knowing why certain groups of people may have certain types of features and why others don't. Such as why one group of Natives in Africa may have soft cotton type hair, and antoher group may have silky. And I'm not meaning Oromo, Ethiopian or Somalians.


Ok, again.. sorry to get a bit off topic and my comments are not to offend, just wanted to share what I thought was interesting as well...




Denise..

 

[Grgranny]

dmr, I find your post very interesting and am glad you posted it.

I reread my post and find I left out the word not. It sure made a difference in how it was posted. I am NOT bothered by being called Indian.

 

[Longhornliz]

In my special ed classes we learned about a movement called "people first language." When trying to attach a label to everyone according to their disability (the context in which we used it) or race, you remove the emphasis from the most important aspect which is their humanity.

Instead of saying
A handicaped/disabled person

Say
A person who has a disability.

It could work for ethnicity and race like this
Instead of saying
An Asian person

Say
A person of Asian hertitage

that way even if you dont know the proper PC label, at least you are coming off as sensitive.

here is a link to the people first website that talks about its usage in more detail.
http://www.kidstogether.org/pep-1st.htm

 

[Doggygirl]

I wonder how long it will take...

...before Americans are just Americans. I'm not suggesting that we shouldn't all be proud of whatever heritage (or combos) we hail from. One of the more interesting things I learned about my husband when we were first dating is that he had done one of the most complete geneologies on his family I have ever seen. Quite an interesting historical perspective on family.

This is a very interesting thread, and here's a question that came to my mind.

If literally every American stopped self identifying as part of a particular group, and stopped identifying others as part of a particular group, discrimination would become much more difficult to do, wouldn't it??????

Hmmmm.....maybe we CAN change the world!

DG

 

[Tonichelle]

DG, exactly.

But then you have certain groups (I guess radical groups) that refuse to just be called Americans. I think because they feel they are allowed special treatment because of the horrible way we big bad white people treated them once upon a time. Honestly I don't agree that I should have to aplogise for the sins of people that aren't even part of my family history. My family didn't hit America until sometime in the 1900s and neither side was big on the Whites vs everyone else. But I am immediately lumped into that group because of my color. Not all people do this, I'm just talking about those groups that like to shout discrimination. If you're in the US you can discriminate against people only if they're white. You never see that in the news.

I guess I just get tired of it being Black/Asian/Native American/everyone vs Whites... because "we're" just as diverse and not all of us are part of the KKK. I've gotten this A LOT in college this year. You wouldn't believe how many people think it's awful that I don't think there should be definate lines. Because if they don't make lines we're going to discriminate more. Riiiiiiighhhhtttt that's my whole plan is to discriminate. My very good friend who is Black gets letters from a Pro-Black anti-White group not because she subscribes (she thinks it's just as stupid as I do LOL) but because she has a white employer (she is my Pastor's secretary). It has a run down of what he can and can't say and get away with and if he does anything that she should call and sue and all this type of crap. While I agree there is a line, you don't see this much when the situation is reversed, because I think it would be harder to prove because of the way this country sees things right now. These people would probably freak if they saw what those two do in the office... They're both from "the South" so she is always playing the poor abused black slave callin' him "Massa" at times just to tick him off.. it's hillarious. I wish we could all get along like that and not have to worry some lawyer/politician/ is going to make a big deal of it.

and now that I've ranted and sounded like a lunatic I will shut up

 

[PrincessLeppard]

1. What Liz said. Identify the person first, any other characteristics second.

2. I think we should just all be PEOPLE, not Americans, Germans, etc, but that's not going to happen. When I lived in Germany and had a German boyfriend, to his friends, I was always "the American Nick is dating," and he was 'that German guy Laura dates" to my friends. I tried, after that, to not identify people by ANY kind of label. It didn't work. I worked for an international company, and when I would say, "Can you take this to Gene's secretary, Lisa?" people would say, "Oh, the Croatian girl." Urg. So...

3. We are going to label people. We should just accept that. The terms do not change as frequently as some people in this thread imply, and it shouldn't be that big of a deal to know the most PC term. (when did PC become a bad thing???) If you aren't sure what a person would like to be called....ask. Grgranny doesn't mind Indian. Some Native Americans (I actually like the Canadian term "First Nation") prefer to be identified by their tribe.

4. Unless you are a minority (and I am not), you have no idea what it's like to be discriminated against. So if people seem a bit touchy that you used the wrong term accidently, please understand that many people have probably used that term *deliberately* to be insulting. A little understanding on ALL sides would go a long way to ending this divide.

Thanks for listening.

Laura

 

[Grgranny]

Of course, we never knew ourselves we were part Indian. I'm only about 1/16th and none of us look like it. So, I never really had that kind of discrimination. However, we were discriminated against because we were from the country. I had one girl ask me why kids from the country wore funny clothes. We were treated like hicks.

 

[IDLERACER]

A human is Greek, but an urn is Greecian. The same rule generally applies to people of the far east. A human is Asian, but a rug is oriental. ​

 

[Linny]

Imagine

Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace...

You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will be as one

John Lennon wrote that (case you didn't recognize it)....

Linny