I have a question for Asians

[Ptichka]

Labels are so subjective! In Russian, for example, it's perfectly OK to refer to a person as a Negro, but offensive to call him/ her Black. The former is considered just a statement of fact (that a person is of Negroid race), while the latter is rather subjective; the term is often used as derogatory when referring to people from the Caucasian states. For many immigrants to the US, the very first rule we were informed of is not to use the term "Negro".

As to labels... Sometimes they are indeed necessary. Take medicine for example. There are certain diseases that specific ethnic groups are more succeptible to. For instance, if an Ashkenazi Jewish woman is pregnant from another Ashkenazi Jew, she is advised to get some blood tests that other pregnant women just don't need. This is not racism, this is practical. In fact, political correctness is hurting much medical research; my friend works of a company that deals with medical statistics, and each year she finds it increasingly difficult to collect racial data.

Finally, as to minorities and "touchiness". I am Jewish, and while I haven't encountered open anti-semitism since I've left Russia, I often hear people make ignorant remarks that I find offensive (ex: "Why are all Jews rich?", "American Jews just care about Israel, not US", etc.). When that happens, I slowly count to ten, and then try to calmly explain where the person's logic has gone wrong. I find it's amazing how people often just don't know the facts!

 

[lovespirals]

DG, exactly.

But then you have certain groups (I guess radical groups) that refuse to just be called Americans. I think because they feel they are allowed special treatment because of the horrible way we big bad white people treated them once upon a time.

I can't argue with your perspective becuase I didn't come from where you have, but where I grew up people wrote letters to the editor of newspaper spewing the most senseless crap, but the "crap" that came out most often was how we as blacks aren't even Americans and other such rubbish. America is comprised of many pockets of thinking I've come to realize and many of them overlap I think. You'd probably amaze with the number of people who actually believe stuff like that. I was...

*Sidestory* I remember being with my next door neighbors one time and I cut myself so I was bleeding. They were shocked to see I had red blood! They talked about it off and on even days after. Unbelievable! :sheesh:

 

[PrincessLeppard]

Spirals, reading your post made me remember a cab ride I took in New Orleans in the late 80s. The cab driver was upset about an African-American woman being named Miss America, because she was "you know, not a real American." I didn't tip him, but much to my chagrin now, I didn't correct him, either. I'll say I was young (19) and naive, but that shouldn't have been an excuse.

to Linny for posting the lyrics to Imagine. I wish people would pay more attention to them.

 

[heyang]

Ugh - messed up and lost my original response. Here goes again...

Here's my perspective as the child of immigrants. I am American of Chinese heritage. It's the culture I grew up and live in.

I am discriminated against by some Chinese people because I don't speak Chinese and my favorite foods aren't Chinese. I've made more effort to learn about my cultural heritage - mostly interested in the accomplishments and traditions/superstitions.

I am discriminated against by non-Chinese people who assume that I must know how to speak Chinese, know how to cook Chinese food and that I must know Karate/Kung Fu/Tai Chi. Business people assume I will speak with a Chinese accent because of my last name. (I had a head hunter compliment me on the phone about how well I speak English. I told him that I would hope so since I was born in the US - hope he was embarassed and learned not to assume). Companies assume that I will need a Chinese-speaking salesperson to sell me an international calling plan because of my last name. I don't know how many times AT&T has had someone who ONLY speaks Chinese call me. Usually the person only speaks Mandarin, which is not the predominant Chinse dialect in the US (yet) and the person cannot speak English.

I hate stereotypes like Long Duck Dong from Sixteen Candles. It's an 'Uncle Tom' character and does not represent the diversity of Chinese immigrants now. Many Chinese people currently emigrate from Hong Kong and were educated in a British style school system.

I think all immigrant populations have been mocked by their predecessors. Irish micks. Italian WOP's. Stupid Pollack jokes.

People speak of shutting the 'doors', but this country was built on the hard work of immigre's seeking better and willing to do menial work to help their children gain opporunity. The Chinese railroad workers/laundry people/restauranteurs raised children who became engineers and computer scientists. The current influx of Indian people working at the 24 hour gas stations are doing jobs that non-immigrants are unwilling to do - but they are reaching to give their children the opportunity to do better. My grandmother's younger brother was a doctor in China - he came here to work in a restaurant kitchen to allow his 2 children to obtain college educations and opportunities that were not available in southern China 20 years ago. Mexican migrant workers are willing to do menial labor that non-immigrants look down on, but which is vital to the economy of the region.

As for oriental vs Asian....I'm offended by neither, but prefer Asian.

 

[Ptichka]

Heyang, I recently had a conversation with a woman at work. I mentioned to her how people assumed I loved vodka just because I was from Russia. She countered by saying she faced even more stereotypes by being from Texas -- people all asked her about her gun and stuff. All I am saying is that everyone is stereotyped in one way or another.

 

[heyang]

Ptichka, you just reminde me of something my mother did. I was dating someone whose grandparents were from Germany. My mother asked him if he liked potatoes since most German people like potatoes. He thought it was funny, but it drove me insane. Then again, my mother is from a different generation and is shocked by reports on pedophiles.

 

[StillBlueLake]

DG, exactly.

But then you have certain groups (I guess radical groups) that refuse to just be called Americans. I think because they feel they are allowed special treatment because of the horrible way we big bad white people treated them once upon a time.

Is it really that hard to listen to the perspective of others who didn't grow up the same way you did? How does listening to their experiences mean that they want to be "victims"?

PS: There are plenty of white people who call themselves Irish American, or Italian American etc etc etc.

 

[shanilia]

if literally every American stopped self identifying as part of a particular group, and stopped identifying others as part of a particular group, discrimination would become much more difficult to do, wouldn't it??????

As long as people look different, we will never see ourselves as just Americans. If everyone were of one ethnicity and therefore had the same skin color and same facial features, then this ideal would be true.

 

[shanilia]

I am discriminated against by some Chinese people because I don't speak Chinese and my favorite foods aren't Chinese. I've made more effort to learn about my cultural heritage - mostly interested in the accomplishments and traditions/superstitions.

I imagine this to happen in Chinatowns, usually.

I am discriminated against by non-Chinese people who assume that I must know how to speak Chinese, know how to cook Chinese food and that I must know Karate/Kung Fu/Tai Chi. Business people assume I will speak with a Chinese accent because of my last name. (I had a head hunter compliment me on the phone about how well I speak English. I told him that I would hope so since I was born in the US - hope he was embarassed and learned not to assume). Companies assume that I will need a Chinese-speaking salesperson to sell me an international calling plan because of my last name. I don't know how many times AT&T has had someone who ONLY speaks Chinese call me. Usually the person only speaks Mandarin, which is not the predominant Chinse dialect in the US (yet) and the person cannot speak English.

I don't know if where you live has many Chinese people, but I imagine this to happen more often when you live in a place without many Chinese people, therefore, non-Chinese people only know stereotypes of you. It's normal behavior in people who don't have much contact with another ethicity and therefore don't know much about that ethnicity. For example, if I went to Idaho, I'm sure people wil ask me the same questions and make the same assumptions as you experienced once they see that I'm Asian.

 

[heyang]

I live in New Jersey which had a large Chinese population explosion in the 80's. Currently, many people from India are moving into central NJ.

When I was growing up (in Peekskill, NY which is only an hour from NYC's Chinatown), there weren't many Asians, but there was very little teasing from my classmates. I only recall less than a handful of experiences and most were innocent enough questions.

The issues I have are with corporate America and professionals.

AT&T is a Worldwide corporation. Also, as a former customer, they should realize that I've never called Asia. As I mentioned, I would not be offended if the telemarketer could do the spiel in Chinese (any dialect) AND English. Also, they shouldn't have assumed that my Chinese last name was an indication of my ethnicity - it could have been an ex-husband's last name.

As for the headhunter who is based in New York City, he assumed that I was born in China. Why would anyone assume that - especially since I do speak English well? If I had an distinguishable accent, I could understand his assuming that I did not grow up in the US - but, I don't have an accent (other than the standard regional one).

 

[Kateri]

4. Unless you are a minority (and I am not), you have no idea what it's like to be discriminated against. So if people seem a bit touchy that you used the wrong term accidently, please understand that many people have probably used that term *deliberately* to be insulting. A little understanding on ALL sides would go a long way to ending this divide.

Absolutely. It often seems trivial to people who haven't had to deal with it personally, but it really does matter. If you have grown up being insulted with a certain word, then every time you hear that word, you remember all the pain. I read a quote (I forget where) by one guy who, although he was black, said that when other black people used the n-word ("reclaiming" it) he still felt like he was being stabbed in the chest every time, just due to the amount of pain it contained for him.

It's hard to keep up with the current definitions of what is acceptable, sure, but it really does matter what you say. I'd never want to hurt someone like that, even (especially?) unintentionally. I can think of insults levelled against me as a kid that, if I hear them, still make me feel......I dunno.......sick inside, because just for a second, I'm that kid again, and it's horrible.

kateri.

 

[gracefulswan]

heck, never even thought of it and i'm half oriental..err 'asian' to those who want politically correct verbage.

seriously though, what's the biggie? i didn't even realize the being called 'oriental' is something that's merely used to denote objects rather than people (as some assert)...and had not known that. seems logical to use that for humans too. but asians fine with me as well. asian is more popular now i guess... maybe that's why people prefer it more so these days. but 'asian' to be exact... can refer to people from india, pakistan, bangladesh, sri lanka, etc...so... it's not so specific?

 

[shanilia]

As for the headhunter who is based in New York City, he assumed that I was born in China. Why would anyone assume that - especially since I do speak English well? If I had an distinguishable accent, I could understand his assuming that I did not grow up in the US - but, I don't have an accent (other than the standard regional one).

Yeah, that *is* really weird, especially since he lives in New York and should know better! Maybe he's harboring some inward prejudice and it's being exposed.

 

[heyang]

Just wanted to add that the incidents I've described probably represent less than 5% of my life experiences, but they are an important part of my identity. I don't mind questions - just don't care for the assumptions and stereotypes.

Characters like Long Duck Dong from Sixteen Candles and celebrities that play up the stereotypes (i.e Martin Yan) bug me a lot. Also, William Hung is probably the worst thing that could have happened to Chinese males.

 

[Kuchana]

Also, William Hung is probably the worst thing that could have happened to Chinese males.

I agree but some Asians that I've talked to seem to think otherwise. :sheesh: If there's anything I can't stand it's outright mockery and Hung is a perfect example of that along with the inherent racism that stems from that.