Jason Brown is not great re: takeoffs (flutz instead of lutz) but he has a nice running edge on the landing and of course great extension.Just a fan knowing nothing about technique.......Does Jason Brown have proper technique?
What about Hamilton, Boitano, Browning and Stojko? Thanks!
Hey thanks for this! Could you do one more? Orser?Jason Brown is not great re: takeoffs (flutz instead of lutz) but he has a nice running edge on the landing and of course great extension.
Hamilton rotated fast, and had a nice, classic lutz takeoff. Lots of pop. Back in those days the emphasis was height first, rotation later. So you tended to get higher jumps (a little more frenetic and less consistent perhaps).
Boitano had a great lutz, and as a power-based skater, he wasn't pre-rotating much.
Browning was an edge jumper although he had a great toe loop. His lutz was pretty much non-existent except one season (1992 I think?) He did a 'flip' which was probably the worst and clearest 'lip' (outside edge) I've ever seen. Plus his technique was absolutely horrific, on his 'flip'. But his edge jumps went straight up and rotated after. His toeloop had a very open hip on the takeoff and always looked a little pre-rotated, but I think it was just that he flew into it and it was all part of the speed and natural attack. Hard to explain. But his axel was absolutely enormous.
Stojko. Meh. Correct technique on all jumps, though his landings were universally poor in terms of posture. Axel technique was great, lutz was true (very telegraphed), flip was good, edge jumps hit and miss but true.
You opened a can of wormsNow I want to know about Plushy, though I hope I don't regret asking
Okay, I'll be honest, I didn't really like aspects of Orser's skating, but the man had springs. His split jumps, flying spins, delayed axels, etc - huge! All jumps no question on rotation. His axel had some of the best leg-thrust/attack ever, maybe a bit more skid than some...? Finished the rotation way before landing. I just personally always hated his entry and his hands parallel to the ice bent at the wrist. Sorry Just hated that. He kind of stalked the entry...(?)Hey thanks for this! Could you do one more? Orser?
Yes and no. Do all skaters pre-rotate? I would say that, yes, by virtue of science and motion it is inevitable that a skater will rotate AS they are leaving the ice. They HAVE to, because a jump is not purely a vertical motion; there is rotation involved, and a jump occurs as a skater is moving forward at a high velocity.My biggest takeaways so far from this thread are that all my faves pre-rotate, everyone is out for Eteri, and since everyone pre-rotates then no one needs to fix the problem.
If judges were strict with prerotation the American GOAT Michelle Kwan wouldn't have win anything. Wrong edge, full blade assist, pre-rotation over 180.
I'd say Jason has pretty strong technique generally with the exception of Lutz. His 3F is one of the nicest I've seen, but he has edge issues on lutz. His axel isn't very efficient necessarily, but it's not bad mechanics.Just a fan knowing nothing about technique.......Does Jason Brown have proper technique?
What about Hamilton, Boitano, Browning and Stojko? Thanks!
If judges were strict with prerotation the American GOAT Michelle Kwan wouldn't have win anything.
Michelle Kwan's Lutz, 2002.
Wrong edge, full blade assist, pre-rotation over 180.
(Anna Shcherbakova hadn't been born yet.)
Nobody cared, as long as she is not a Russian.
Yuzu, Boyang and Nathan' 4lz take-offs are just mwaah. Yuzu doesn't even pre-rotate. Boyang does it barely, not even full 90 degrees.
But that Nathan Lutz take off in the video is not the same as Yuzu and Boyang. It's good, but if you want to trace the origins of prerotation it would be Yuzu/Boyang Lutz number 1 perfect and then number 2 Nathan's as the absolute start of prerotation....the line ending in Valieva. His picking in is sideways and he's already starting to turn his body a lot before leaving the ice. I'm not 100% confident it's before 90 degrees, it's more like 100.Exactly. I was thinking of Y, B, N take-offs as lutz take-off. Couldn't imagine how you pre-rotate it. J and S are not lutz to my eyes with regard to edges, and P, while a correct edge, uses a full-blade take-off, thus not a lutz.
P, while a correct edge, uses a full-blade take-off, thus not a lutz.
I don't if it's possible, but to answer the question in the title:
- There would be only 4 skaters with ratified 4lz in this world.
- There would be just a few women with actual triples.
Invented I don't know.So why do they ("people", not judges) are looking at it now? Always screaming about "Tutberidze girls" as if its Tutberidze who is invented and exclusively uses it.
There will always be some pre-rotation. Excessive pre-rotation--for example, more than a half turn--is what needs to be looked at.How feasible would it be for skaters to change their take-off technique (especially skaters that prerotate a lot), is it possible?
As per ISU rules, ½ turn prerotation is a downgrade, excessive prerotation but less than ½ turn is a call in GOEs.There will always be some pre-rotation. Excessive pre-rotation--for example, more than a half turn--is what needs to be looked at.