If you could change one rule in any discipline

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Basically, I'm just stirring up because I get annoyed when people minimize the importance of proper edges on takeoff and landing, all the while sniveling that so-and-so was robbed by at least a point in PCS.

In my heart, I consider a flutz to be a failed element, and therefore unworthy of any points. But I'm realistic enough to know I won't win that battle.

For the record, I'm a fan of artistic skating. I just want it done to technical mastery of the elements. If skaters feel they must present a flawed element, I really wish they wouldn't.

That’s pretty harsh to say a flutz isn’t worthy of any points. While the take off edge is flawed and GOE should be less, the jump itself generally has the mechanics of a lutz entry. And to be like a triple jump should be worth less than a waltz jump because it has a wrong edge I mean, that’s kind of like saying that camel spin was at 80 degrees instead of a 90 degrees leg so the entire spin should be invalidated. I mean in pairs they don’t even care if it’s a throw 3F or throw 3Z on the entry, when some entries are very clearly a sketchy entry edge.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Quads get too many points. I would devalue them a LOT. Hard to do, but now it's pretty much all people do.

Go watch 80s programs and you don’t have to worry about seeing any quads then. Because if you’re advocating for devaluing quads then skaters won’t wanna attempt them unless they are absolutely sure they can land them cleanly.

What would you suggest a quad BVs be revised to?

Already the quad axel is undervalued, as is the quad lutz in my opinion (or quad loop if you’re a fan of specific skaters who can’t reliably do a quad lutz/flip/axel.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Basically, I'm just stirring up because I get annoyed when people minimize the importance of proper edges on takeoff and landing, all the while sniveling that so-and-so was robbed by at least a point in PCS.

In my heart, I consider a flutz to be a failed element, and therefore unworthy of any points. But I'm realistic enough to know I won't win that battle.

For the record, I'm a fan of artistic skating. I just want it done to technical mastery of the elements. If skaters feel they must present a flawed element, I really wish they wouldn't.

Skaters also aren’t trying to deliberately present a flawed flutz. Just like a skater who falls on a jump isn’t intending on falling when they put that jump in their program.

Elite skaters present flawed elements all the time - otherwise you would get everyone doing safe double jumps. Watch an exhibition if it irks you to see competitive athletes who don’t pump out clean programs with pristine elements day in day out.

I mean, I really wish divers wouldn’t attempt dives that bring up a lot of splash. I really wish gymnasts wouldn’t do elements that they don’t absolutely stick. I really wish all the risk and difficulty was removed from sport less I see an element executed sub par (especially a flutz of all things which is like so minor an error in the grand scheme of skating performances… I had to laugh at people who say a flutz ruins a performance or their impression of a skater… these people probably can’t even hold an outside edge on a single lutz, or detect a severe flutz in real time without a replay.

 

[DizzyFrenchie]

Skaters also aren’t trying to deliberately present a flawed flutz. Just like a skater who falls on a jump isn’t intending on falling when they put that jump in their program.

Elite skaters present flawed elements all the time - otherwise you would get everyone doing safe double jumps. Watch an exhibition if it irks you to see competitive athletes who don’t pump out clean programs with pristine elements day in day out.

I mean, I really wish divers wouldn’t attempt dives that bring up a lot of splash. I really wish gymnasts wouldn’t do elements that they don’t absolutely stick. I really wish all the risk and difficulty was removed from sport less I see an element executed sub par (especially a flutz of all things which is like so minor an error in the grand scheme of skating performances… I had to laugh at people who say a flutz ruins a performance or their impression of a skater… these people probably can’t even hold an outside edge on a single lutz, or detect a severe flutz in real time without a replay.

Of course we know that Skaters "aren’t trying to deliberately present a flawed flutz", at most they may choose to focus more elsewhere. They have learnt a faulty technique (or, for one Skater in particular, their motility/control may have problems), and it may not be possible to fix it. But that's one more reason to sanction faulty technique, because should Federations know that flawed technique may result in lost medals, they would more likely check that correct technique is taught even to younger children.

 

[TontoK]

Hey, if you're willing to suspend your disbelief and accept that a jump is fine when it clearly is not, then that's OK by me.

Fans have different perspectives. I've written about this before. As I've become a decades-long fan, I've become far less tolerant of these sorts of things. I've seen the true greats do these moves correctly, so there's no use trying to sell me on the notion that this is all just fine, or excusable, or acceptable. And I still believe that if the penalties were harsh enough, the skaters would clean these up or replace the flawed content with elements they can achieve honestly. Right now, it's "I'm going to get an edge call on that, but in the big scheme of things point-wise, it's still the best decision."

And NO, to answer a comment from another contributor. I cannot do these moves. But I am not appearing in major international competitions pretending that I can, either.

 

[FSFan1999]

that’s kind of like saying that camel spin was at 80 degrees instead of a 90 degrees leg so the entire spin should be invalidated.

I don't disagree with the main point, but camel spins can be invalidated if only 80 degrees in many circumstances.