IOC issues recommendations on RUS/BLR athletes

[Anna K.]

This is the second recommendation, right? Long story short, I think we need to wait for the third or they could even issue a statement then.

IOC issued the first one a few months ago which had a rather vague message, like, "we should kind of let them participate". Then they watched reactions, evaluated what was protested against the most. Now, we are having the result. Like, did you say you don't want supporters of Putin's criminal regime march the streets of Paris? (And now, this is officially a criminal regime because there is a court order.) All right, Putin's supporters won't be allowed. Did you say, ROC was a mere disguise for team Russia? All right, there will be no team participation at all. Everything is still vague and nobody knows how to make it work so I'm guessing that IOC will watch and evaluate reactions for a few months, again. And then they might come up with some shape of what will or will not happen in the Olympic games.

By the way, did ISU react anyhow to the previous IOC recommendation? I might be missing something but I have a feeling that they didn't.

 

[Zora]

No flag, anthem, colours or any other identifications whatsoever of these countries displayed at any sports event or meeting, including the entire venue.

I wonder how this would work, because the audience can bring as many flags as they want to and how would the Ukrainian skaters feel about that.

 

[IceDancingQueen]

I seriously don’t understand the point of the ban in the first place then. So the IOC was fine to recommmend to other sports associations a ban on Russians when there were no Olympics on the horizon, but now that 2024 and 2026 are coming up, they want to allow them in again? Way to stand up against the war IOC when it didn’t affect you. If Russian athletes were banned because of the war, and said war is not over, then they should remain banned. I know it’s terrible for the athletes, I have lots of Russian skaters I adore, but if the IOC is reneging now, then they should not have instigated the ban in the first place. Either take a stand or don’t.

 

[Amei]

I seriously don’t understand the point of the ban in the first place then. So the IOC was fine to recommmend to other sports associations a ban on Russians when there were no Olympics on the horizon, but now that 2024 and 2026 are coming up, they want to allow them in again? Way to stand up against the war IOC when it didn’t affect you. If Russian athletes were banned because of the war, and said war is not over, then they should remain banned. I know it’s terrible for the athletes, I have lots of Russian skaters I adore, but if the IOC is reneging now, then they should not have instigated the ban in the first place. Either take a stand or don’t.

They shouldn't have. And financially they might not be able to continue it - there was an article last year that the ISU specifically had to put money away to offset the loss of the Russians just for last season (I want to say it was a couple million but I don't remember the figures exactly).

 

[beachmouse]

I wonder how this would work, because the audience can bring as many flags as they want to and how would the Ukrainian skaters feel about that.

The IOC has long reserved the right to ban displays they see as overly political or not complying with the Olympic ideals. A message that flags from specific countries would not be allowed within ticketed venues or official ‘fan zones’ seems consistent with other policies they’ve had. (The race walking course remains a free speech free for all since it’s not a ticketed venue)

 

[4everchan]

Why would Russia send athletes under these conditions?
"athletes who have not supported the war etc" Makes no sense for Russia to send athletes who do not "support their government's action"
So of course, it's unacceptable.

 

[Amei]

Why would Russia send athletes under these conditions?
"athletes who have not supported the war etc" Makes no sense for Russia to send athletes who do not "support their government's action"
So of course, it's unacceptable.

Because they have a lot of very talented, hard-working athletes who might decide to go represent <insert new country name> because they work their tails off and sacrifice for shots at those historically important titles. And if the Russian fed/ government becomes the blocker for an athlete having a shot at those competitions then they may see a mass exodus of talent from their ranks. While yes for the most part figure skating domestically is quite deep, I don't think they want to see their big stars representing other countries.

 

[4everchan]

Because they have a lot of very talented, hard-working athletes who might decide to go represent <insert new country name> because they work their tails off and sacrifice for shots at those historically important titles. And if the Russian fed/ government becomes the blocker for an athlete having a shot at those competitions then they may see a mass exodus of talent from their ranks. While yes for the most part figure skating domestically is quite deep, I don't think they want to see their big stars representing other countries.

and that is a sufficient reason for you to allow Russia back into the Olympics? Not for me. Sorry. Also, realistically, as we are talking about 2024 games, if you don't have a citizenship right now, there is no way in. Those talented athletes who may flock wouldn't get what they need to compete for new country in the qualifying events leading to the games and the games themselves.

 

[Amei]

and that is a sufficient reason for you to allow Russia back into the Olympics? Not for me. Sorry. Also, realistically, as we are talking about 2024 games, if you don't have a citizenship right now, there is no way in. Those talented athletes who may flock wouldn't get what they need to compete for new country in the qualifying events leading to the games and the games themselves.

Well I've been pretty clear since the ban was initiated that I was against it and my position has not changed - so yes I feel Russian and Belarusian athletes should be allowed to compete.

 

[4everchan]

Well I've been pretty clear since the ban was initiated that I was against it and my position has not changed - so yes I feel Russian and Belarusian athletes should be allowed to compete.

This thread is about the IOC's recommendations.. which Russia is opposed to. My original post in this thread is the simple fact that I understand why Russia doesn't accept these recommendations because it requires that their athletes are against their government. Athletes who would be allowed in the games would be those who haven't supported their government... I am only talking about this point in particular... it makes absolutely no sense from the IOC to put the athletes in this very delicate situation, and it makes no sense for Russia to accept this. If you want to talk about discrimination, against a passport, now it is discriminating in another way... still is discrimination. As @Anna K. said, let's wait for the next recommendations as this one will not fly.

 

[beachmouse]

This thread is about the IOC's recommendations.. which Russia is opposed to. My original post in this thread is the simple fact that I understand why Russia doesn't accept these recommendations because it requires that their athletes are against their government. Athletes who would be allowed in the games would be those who haven't supported their government... I am only talking about this point in particular... it makes absolutely no sense from the IOC to put the athletes in this very delicate situation, and it makes no sense for Russia to accept this.

The more I think about it, the more I suspect that their ‘great deal of discussion’ really is essentiallu a copy and paste of the Yugoslavia 1992 neutral athlete rules, which don’t account for the much cozier athlete-government-military relationship in Russia today than there seemed to be in Serbia & Montenegro in the 1990s.

Second thought- it would be somewhat satisfying to see Aliaksandra Herasimenia, currently in exile because she faces a 12 year jail term for standing up to the government if she returns to Belarus, show up in Paris as an authorized neutral athlete. Sprint swimming is a lot about muscle memory- see Anthony Ervin’s surprise gold medal in 2016- and she’s got the back talent to make at least an Olympic semifinal with a solid training block behind her.

 

[icewhite]

The more I think about it, the more I suspect that their ‘great deal of discussion’ really is essentiallu a copy and paste of the Yugoslavia 1992 neutral athlete rules, which don’t account for the much cozier athlete-government-military relationship in Russia today than there seemed to be in Serbia & Montenegro in the 1990s.

Second thought- it would be somewhat satisfying to see Aliaksandra Herasimenia, currently in exile because she faces a 12 year jail term for standing up to the government if she returns to Belarus, show up in Paris as an authorized neutral athlete. Sprint swimming is a lot about muscle memory- see Anthony Ervin’s surprise gold medal in 2016- and she’s got the back talent to make at least an Olympic semifinal with a solid training block behind her.

I think the recommendations of the IOC were not made with figure skating in mind. They don't fit this sport very well. However it is just recommendations. The ISU could make from it what it wants.

 

[yesterday]

I'm just glad that since this was issued, so many feds and athletes, countries and committies dismissed that "proposal". Just because there's some single sports that can't or won't follow the general line, doesn't mean those show "best practice".

 

[icewhite]

This thread is about the IOC's recommendations.. which Russia is opposed to. My original post in this thread is the simple fact that I understand why Russia doesn't accept these recommendations because it requires that their athletes are against their government. Athletes who would be allowed in the games would be those who haven't supported their government... I am only talking about this point in particular... it makes absolutely no sense from the IOC to put the athletes in this very delicate situation, and it makes no sense for Russia to accept this. If you want to talk about discrimination, against a passport, now it is discriminating in another way... still is discrimination. As @Anna K. said, let's wait for the next recommendations as this one will not fly.

If this is not accepted I don't see any other solution but an outright ban to stay in place.
God, I can't believe I am defending the IOC. I hate that corrupt organization. But here I think they already gave out the best solution, they really tried to separate the athletes as much from the government as possible. Looks like nobody else likes it, though.

 

[4everchan]

If this is not accepted I don't see any other solution but an outright ban to stay in place.
God, I can't believe I am defending the IOC. I hate that corrupt organization. But here I think they already gave out the best solution, they really tried to separate the athletes as much from the government as possible. Looks like nobody else likes it, though.

It is impossible to divide sports and politics. Especially, considering that the ban first started with the paralympics and was put forward by the IOC itself... though they pretend that they are apolitical

It just makes absolutely no sense for the IOC to sometimes make bold political moves, and other times say they cannot do this because of their chart.... (no discrimination on passport)... Yet, in their chart, there is the Olympic truce... which is .... super political

At some point, the IOC will need to look at the very fence they are sitting on, and get clearer with who they are, what they do, and what responsibilities they want to hold. At this point, they look like they are trying to save all their relationships with all their sponsors

 

[4everchan]

Bach is not happy with "the West"

https://www.cbc.ca/sports/olympics/ioc-bach-government-criticism-deplorable-1.6795928

He also insists that sports and politics shouldn't coincide...However, there are many examples where the IOC has made political statements, including the exclusion of South Africa during the Apartheid years.

Finally, Bach is not saying it all... he should also acknowledge that Russia isn't happy either with the IOC's guidelines... it's not just "the West" being mad... it's everyone.

 

[skatedreamer]

Bach is not happy with "the West"

https://www.cbc.ca/sports/olympics/ioc-bach-government-criticism-deplorable-1.6795928

He also insists that sports and politics shouldn't coincide...However, there are many examples where the IOC has made political statements, including the exclusion of South Africa during the Apartheid years.

Finally, Bach is not saying it all... he should also acknowledge that Russia isn't happy either with the IOC's guidelines... it's not just "the West" being mad... it's everyone.

Bach's statement seems disingenuous at best. Whether he admits it or not, sports & politics have been intertwined almost as long as the Olympics have existed. It's unfortunate but IMO, it's pretty much inevitable when athletes compete under a national flag.

 

[Amei]

Bach is not happy with "the West"

https://www.cbc.ca/sports/olympics/ioc-bach-government-criticism-deplorable-1.6795928

He also insists that sports and politics shouldn't coincide...However, there are many examples where the IOC has made political statements, including the exclusion of South Africa during the Apartheid years.

Finally, Bach is not saying it all... he should also acknowledge that Russia isn't happy either with the IOC's guidelines... it's not just "the West" being mad... it's everyone.

Well if sports wasn't political the IOC should have done these recommendations last year or said 'this ban is temporary until we can figure out a proper solution". I can get frustration from Russians at being banned a year+ but then he comes out with his statements and this flagless/neutral status... like people were saying to do that last year. The ISU could have implemented this last year.

I also get that some of the complaints from both sides is PR grandstanding. At the end of the day Russian athletes want to compete internationally and there least are enough that don't actually mind the neutral/stateless status and internationally some of these organizations are financially hurting without the Russians (ISU being 1 of them).

 

[4everchan]

Well if sports wasn't political the IOC should have done these recommendations last year or said 'this ban is temporary until we can figure out a proper solution". I can get frustration from Russians at being banned a year+ but then he comes out with his statements and this flagless/neutral status... like people were saying to do that last year. The ISU could have implemented this last year.

I also get that some of the complaints from both sides is PR grandstanding. At the end of the day Russian athletes want to compete internationally and there least are enough that don't actually mind the neutral/stateless status and internationally some of these organizations are financially hurting without the Russians (ISU being 1 of them).

Competing without a flag is fine for tennis players... They compete for themselves, week in week out. Competing at the Olympics is different. It's always been about the greatest pride of representing your own people and country, once or twice in a lifetime for most. The climax is standing on the podium with your national anthem played. I am not so sure Russian athletes are that thrilled with the IOC's proposal here. Actually, quite the opposite... but I am not a Russian athlete so I won't make any assumptions on how they feel.

Also, let's not forget that ROC was already competing as neutrals before the ban... so returning there, as the situation is very different, seems ludicrous.

 

[Tavi...]

I love his what about-ism, citing the 70 other unnamed ongoing “armed conflicts” that apparently no one is complaining about as evidence that the bad “west” is discriminating against the poor, poor Russians. As obsessed as he seems to be about this, he has apparently overlooked the fact that allowing athletes from the unnamed aggressor countries in other armed conflicts to compete hasn’t brought world peace there - any more than allowing Russian athletes to compete without a flag has solved the doping problem.