Is GOAT a meaningful concept?

[4everchan]

Respectfully (and again something that has been discussed before), I do not believe that this is an accurate assessment. Yuzuru Hanyu the individual has a huge and enthusiastic fan base that continues to suport him in his post-competitive career. This is not the same as saying that the sport of figure skating has undergone a sea change,

Yes, demographics plays a role and my perspective is what I observe in the United States. Maybe it is different in other countries. But what I see, when I attend local club recitals and exhibitions, are ten little girls taking learn to skate lessons for every one little boy.

have a look at Patinage Québec's entry list for Championnats québécois d'été.

2 Senior men (one from Ontario)
30 Senior women ( a few are out of province as well)
9 Junior men (only 5 from Québec)
34 Junior women
12 novice men (only 3 from Québec)
71, yes divided in 3 groups of 24,23,24 novice women
17 pre-novice men including those out of province
5 groups of roughly 24 skaters for pre-novice women... so over 120 pre-novice women.

Considering Hanyu performed a few times in Montreal (saw him do the first quad loop and his first Seimei) one could imagine he had an impact on inspiring the younger men generation of skaters. It's hard to make a case for that with such numbers. Nothing has changed in Québec's skating culture. However, more men are taking dance and pairs than singles in Québec. I wonder why would that be

ETA. Forgot to drop the entry list link

https://patinage.qc.ca/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/CQE2026-Liste-des-participants-au-6-juillet.pdf

 

[Arigato]

Misogyny is a BS excuse for not being able to make things happen in the real world.

 

[TallyT]

Wow, there is a fair old amount of sour grape wine being chugged here for something that some people - yet again, as I pointed out waaaaaaay back on page 1 - very very loudly insist is meaningless and they don't care about (and I notice that people don't actually don't seem to care - or fuss and fume - when it's say V/M or G/G being called GOATs, Kim or Kwan etc...) I will also point out that it was the "he isn't he isn't he isn't and it doesn't mean a thing and I don't care!!!!!" people who actually brought Yuzuru Hanyu into this thread so don't blame us because it happens so often...

So {deep breath}... warning, rant-reply ahoy, I haven't had my coffee and I am irked.

I think it was the GOAT thread in 2024 where I listed just the highlights in Yuzuru's list accomplishments (he has multiple wiki pages after all) and invited others to list Nathan's, or Patrick's or anyone else's to show they also have their claim to fame. I am not going to do it again as this thread is, according to the title and the OP's first post Not. Supposed. To. Be. About. Who. But. What. It. Means, however I have added to it since then and I can if people want to quibble.

And since said not-us people have dragged him into it, I will also add that every single man in the current top rank (say, the final flights of Olys and Worlds, or the GPF finalists, that do you?) has specifically cited him as their idol or how he has influenced them and how they watch him for inspiration. He has been credited directly with inspiring young Japanese, just one example being where a film director's research a couple of years ago showed the number of boys starting because of him, and maybe Shoma, was approaching equity - just as Yuna, my GOAT in the women, inspired girls in Korea (I'm sorry, @4everchan but jumping up and down because "a Japanese skater is not inspiring Canadian boys" is such a reach - leading with chin again? Wasn't that more Patrick's job if anyone's?). He has also inspired/collaborated with musicians, artists and photographers to create works (and still is). And he was shown to be responsible for so many fans travelling to and investing income at his competitions that not only did some municipal bodies credit him for their areas' bounty but the ISU's accountants actually mentioned him in discussing the drop in income after he retired. One or a few of these and all the stuff on my list does not a Greatest make (so let's not nitpick) but cumulatively? There is a reason ESPN and the AIPS chose him in their own greatest athletes lists, and he is near the top of surveys of Japanese people - all Japanese people - recognised worldwide.

If the term has meaning (and I have spoken about this already, yes it does in general if not for specific folk) then he is definitely one of the ones with the legacy and level of influence to be up there at the top of discussions, and anyone who says otherwise really needs to lay off the those grapes.

Now. {lets breath out}.

Could we get back to What. It. Actually. Means or if carp we must, make another thread and find another great skater to carp about?

 

[Mathman]

For me, I take the bottom-up view of all sports. Sports, at heart, are recreations for children (the exceptions being those with military origin like javelin and archery). The various "golden ages" of figure skating were when frozen ponds dotted the landscape and kids looked forward to being gifted a new pair of ice skates and rushing out onto the nearest frozen surface for fun.

Some children were interested enough and talented enough to extend their childhood into adolescence, and tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny few went on to aim for big bucks as professional entertainers, winning medals and exhibiting their skills before paying audiences.

For some reason -- I don't know why -- this view warms my heart. GOATS less so, but hey, I got no quarrel to pick with anyone -- just my take on the matter.