Is it worth getting skates heat molded after a year if they're already broken in?

[robot]

If I've already had my skates for a year will heat molding make the fit better, or have my skates already most likely naturally molded themselves at this point. Currently I only have the option of heat molding the skates, not punching them out available to me, so the big question is whether or not heat molding could widen the toe box enough to justify the whole endeavor. Or whether heat molding could help reshape the skates to be slightly more supportive in the sense that they'd fit more snuggly to counteract the breakdown of the padding which thankfully helped widen the skate.

Additionally, if I do decide to get them heat molded should I wear my bunga pads and lace bite gel pad that goes ontop of my socked foot under the tongue before lacing up, or ditch them for a more snug fit? Or is there anything i can add padding wise while getting it heat molded for extra heel lock?

Lastly, this might just be a coincidence and a stroke of bad luck, but does heat molding cause the skates to break down faster?

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

If I've already had my skates for a year will heat molding make the fit better, or have my skates already most likely naturally molded themselves at this point. Currently I only have the option of heat molding the skates, not punching them out available to me, so the big question is whether or not heat molding could widen the toe box enough to justify the whole endeavor. Or whether heat molding could help reshape the skates to be slightly more supportive in the sense that they'd fit more snuggly to counteract the breakdown of the padding which thankfully helped widen the skate.

Additionally, if I do decide to get them heat molded should I wear my bunga pads and lace bite gel pad that goes ontop of my socked foot under the tongue before lacing up, or ditch them for a more snug fit? Or is there anything i can add padding wise while getting it heat molded for extra heel lock?

Lastly, this might just be a coincidence and a stroke of bad luck, but does heat molding cause the skates to break down faster?

If you have had your skates for a year, and you are having issues with the fit not being secure enough you already have broken down skates and they will need to be replaced.

 

[Query]

I can't speak to whether your boots are starting to break down. But if not, I do find it puzzling that the paddling has broken down - that would certainly suggest it is breaking down, if you mean it is not as stiff as it used to be. Quite possibly, the poor fit contributed to that break down. A good snug fit everywhere is one of the best ways to extend boot lifetime.

Heat molding causes some break down. But in many cases it is worth it. If I had heat moldable boots, I would probably do it if they weren't on the verge of breaking down, because it helps with fit so much. - but if yours are already breaking down, that might not be a great idea.

Punching is something you can do yourself - with a ball and ring pliers. But it usually works a lot better if you apply heat - e.g., with a hair drier.

If the heel lock you are looking for is at the bottom of your feet, neither punching nor heat molding can help with that. If it is higher up, it might help. However, there are simple things you can do with tape. E.g., if you put a good quality tape (e.g., a good cloth athletic tape, or a good foam tape, like good quality moleskin) on the bottom of the insole under the heel, and extend it a bit past the edge of the insole, so it comes up around the sides of the heel, that could help. Or if it is loose right at the back, you can stick the tape past the back of the insole. You can also stick moleskin to the part of the boot where it is loose.

And you can stick moleskin wherever it does not feel snug, and that will make it snug.

None of the things I suggested will fix break down - you would still feel a lack of support. AFAICT, break down occurs mostly because the stiffening elements that are between the layers of leather are breaking apart. But if your boots are just one layer of leather (or other material), the leather itself breaks down too - and single layer figure skating skate boots mostly do not last long in any event. All the better quality figure skating boots, AFAICT, have two layers of leather (or synthetic) surrounding stiffening layer(s).

Unfortunately, most of us lack the skill and tools to rip open the seams on those two layers, and replace the stiffening elements. People, and some companies do occasionally do that on very expensive boots.

There is a nearly universal recommendation in forums like Goldenskate, that makes sense, that you should find a really good skate fitter, and get new boots that fit right and are appropriate to your level to begin with (or after a heat mold). It is possible that you also need more expensive boots, that will break down more slowly, but we don't really have enough data in this case to be certain. But do I gather from your inability to get them punched, that you don't know of a really good nearby fitter?

 

[tstop4me]

... so the big question is whether or not heat molding could widen the toe box enough to justify the whole endeavor.

Are you still referring to your Jackson Elles? If so, the answer is no. As I responded in your previous thread:

* The toe box can be further rounded via punching and spot heating (done in multiple stages if needed). I've had this done to my boots, and was able to avoid the need for a Rapid Custom (see below). You need an experienced tech, and you need to leave the boots. This is a longer-lasting and more extensive procedure than quickie spot punching done cold.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

If you are in Elles which weren't stiff enough for you in the first place, then they are more than dead and you need new Jackson boots that actually work for someone at your height weight and skill level. You need a separate boot and blade.

 

[robot]

If you have had your skates for a year, and you are having issues with the fit not being secure enough you already have broken down skates and they will need to be replaced.

It's mainly

I can't speak to whether your boots are starting to break down. But if not, I do find it puzzling that the paddling has broken down - that would certainly suggest it is breaking down, if you mean it is not as stiff as it used to be. Quite possibly, the poor fit contributed to that break down. A good snug fit everywhere is one of the best ways to extend boot lifetime.

Heat molding causes some break down. But in many cases it is worth it. If I had heat moldable boots, I would probably do it if they weren't on the verge of breaking down, because it helps with fit so much. - but if yours are already breaking down, that might not be a great idea.

Punching is something you can do yourself - with a ball and ring pliers. But it usually works a lot better if you apply heat - e.g., with a hair drier.

If the heel lock you are looking for is at the bottom of your feet, neither punching nor heat molding can help with that. If it is higher up, it might help. However, there are simple things you can do with tape. E.g., if you put a good quality tape (e.g., a good cloth athletic tape, or a good foam tape, like good quality moleskin) on the bottom of the insole under the heel, and extend it a bit past the edge of the insole, so it comes up around the sides of the heel, that could help. Or if it is loose right at the back, you can stick the tape past the back of the insole. You can also stick moleskin to the part of the boot where it is loose.

And you can stick moleskin wherever it does not feel snug, and that will make it snug.

None of the things I suggested will fix break down - you would still feel a lack of support. AFAICT, break down occurs mostly because the stiffening elements that are between the layers of leather are breaking apart. But if your boots are just one layer of leather (or other material), the leather itself breaks down too - and single layer figure skating skate boots mostly do not last long in any event. All the better quality figure skating boots, AFAICT, have two layers of leather (or synthetic) surrounding stiffening layer(s).

Unfortunately, most of us lack the skill and tools to rip open the seams on those two layers, and replace the stiffening elements. People, and some companies do occasionally do that on very expensive boots.

There is a nearly universal recommendation in forums like Goldenskate, that makes sense, that you should find a really good skate fitter, and get new boots that fit right and are appropriate to your level to begin with (or after a heat mold). It is possible that you also need more expensive boots, that will break down more slowly, but we don't really have enough data in this case to be certain. But do I gather from your inability to get them punched, that you don't know of a really good nearby fitter?

I can't speak to whether your boots are starting to break down. But if not, I do find it puzzling that the paddling has broken down - that would certainly suggest it is breaking down, if you mean it is not as stiff as it used to be. Quite possibly, the poor fit contributed to that break down. A good snug fit everywhere is one of the best ways to extend boot lifetime.

Heat molding causes some break down. But in many cases it is worth it. If I had heat moldable boots, I would probably do it if they weren't on the verge of breaking down, because it helps with fit so much. - but if yours are already breaking down, that might not be a great idea.

Punching is something you can do yourself - with a ball and ring pliers. But it usually works a lot better if you apply heat - e.g., with a hair drier.

If the heel lock you are looking for is at the bottom of your feet, neither punching nor heat molding can help with that. If it is higher up, it might help. However, there are simple things you can do with tape. E.g., if you put a good quality tape (e.g., a good cloth athletic tape, or a good foam tape, like good quality moleskin) on the bottom of the insole under the heel, and extend it a bit past the edge of the insole, so it comes up around the sides of the heel, that could help. Or if it is loose right at the back, you can stick the tape past the back of the insole. You can also stick moleskin to the part of the boot where it is loose.

And you can stick moleskin wherever it does not feel snug, and that will make it snug.

None of the things I suggested will fix break down - you would still feel a lack of support. AFAICT, break down occurs mostly because the stiffening elements that are between the layers of leather are breaking apart. But if your boots are just one layer of leather (or other material), the leather itself breaks down too - and single layer figure skating skate boots mostly do not last long in any event. All the better quality figure skating boots, AFAICT, have two layers of leather (or synthetic) surrounding stiffening layer(s).

Unfortunately, most of us lack the skill and tools to rip open the seams on those two layers, and replace the stiffening elements. People, and some companies do occasionally do that on very expensive boots.

There is a nearly universal recommendation in forums like Goldenskate, that makes sense, that you should find a really good skate fitter, and get new boots that fit right and are appropriate to your level to begin with (or after a heat mold). It is possible that you also need more expensive boots, that will break down more slowly, but we don't really have enough data in this case to be certain. But do I gather from your inability to get them punched, that you don't know of a really good nearby fitter?

I almost feel like it's one of those 'the grass is always greener' things in regards to getting the best fit that comes with being a perfectionist than anything else. Like FOMO when it comes to slightly better boot fit. Especially since adding bunga pads to protect myself from annoying rubbing and wrinkling and holes in the heel boot liner, and adding a gel pad over my foot under the tongue to protect from lace bite helped so much which makes me wonder what effect heat molding would have......

Especially since my boots widened up a bit on their own and stopped causing my foot to go numb a few months ago which has been heavenly ...... it definitely makes me wonder if heat molding would do the same thing but on steroids in terms of fit


As for whether or not the boots are broken in or broken down..... well.... that's up for debate. There's no creasing at all by the flex notch, and since it's just the lining of the heel that has started to get holes and wrinkle I don't see the point of getting new skates. It helps that I don't jump which makes it less of an issue.

 

[Query]

Just curious: What brand and model of boot? What are your most advanced skating moves?

What part of the lining is getting holes and wrinkling? I.E., how far from the bottom of the boot?

Regardless, if the lining of the heel is getting holes and wrinkling, that suggests to me that it is too loose. Why not just add a little moleskin there. If you don't like it, it can be removed fairly easily. Does it make a difference? At the least, you may develop callouses on your heel, which may or may not bother you. If the looseness goes far enough, it may eventually create sores and abrasions, and maybe make you bleed there. But to a significant extent, the heel also helps control the movement of the skate. So, if you are looking to improve fine motor control, it is possible it would help if you got the heel more snug. But you need a better skater than me to give you a better description of why and whether this might matter - and that person might need to know what skating moves you are doing.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

Just curious: What brand and model of boot? What are your most advanced skating moves?

What part of the lining is getting holes and wrinkling? I.E., how far from the bottom of the boot?

Regardless, if the lining of the heel is getting holes and wrinkling, that suggests to me that it is too loose. Why not just add a little moleskin there. If you don't like it, it can be removed fairly easily. Does it make a difference? At the least, you may develop callouses on your heel, which may or may not bother you. If the looseness goes far enough, it may eventually create sores and abrasions, and maybe make you bleed there. But to a significant extent, the heel also helps control the movement of the skate. So, if you are looking to improve fine motor control, it is possible it would help if you got the heel more snug. But you need a better skater than me to give you a better description of why and whether this might matter - and that person might need to know what skating moves you are doing.

A year old Jackson Elle. It's not stiff enough for their needs.

 

[robot]

Are you still referring to your Jackson Elles? If so, the answer is no. As I responded in your previous thread:

Just curious: What brand and model of boot? What are your most advanced skating moves?

What part of the lining is getting holes and wrinkling? I.E., how far from the bottom of the boot?

Regardless, if the lining of the heel is getting holes and wrinkling, that suggests to me that it is too loose. Why not just add a little moleskin there. If you don't like it, it can be removed fairly easily. Does it make a difference? At the least, you may develop callouses on your heel, which may or may not bother you. If the looseness goes far enough, it may eventually create sores and abrasions, and maybe make you bleed there. But to a significant extent, the heel also helps control the movement of the skate. So, if you are looking to improve fine motor control, it is possible it would help if you got the heel more snug. But you need a better skater than me to give you a better description of why and whether this might matter - and that person might need to know what skating moves you are doing.

They're Jackson Elle's.

I'm an ambidextrous spinner so I currently haves my front scratch, corkscrew, layback, sit, and backspin in both directions and am consistently hitting 8-12 revs on all of them which probably helps with boot longevity since I train them equally. For forward spins I'm regularly getting 8-12 revs easy, and Turn wise I can do 3 turns, brackets, and twizzles, and pivots. I also have spiral sequences.

 

[Query]

Jackson Elles, with fancy spins and turns... And to do all that, I bet you put in a lot of practice time. The Elles have given you remarkably long use for what you do with them, and deserve an honorable retirement.

So it might not be worth snugging up your boot, unless you can't afford new ones, or new ones take a long time arrive. Though it only takes a few minutes to snug the heel with moleskin.

Sit spins force the boots to flex a lot. If you point your free toes, that bends them in the opposite direction. Likewise if you try to do deep edges by using a sideways ankle, as I was taught, that bends the boot too, in other ways. So you need boots with more durability (or, like hockey boots, a looser fit - but I think that would make all your fancy spins and twizzles harder to control) - i.e., higher end boots, even if you don't jump. I'm surprised they lasted you a year. I broke down a pair of low end boots - maybe comparable? - mostly doing ice dance in a month or two, a few hours or so a day, even though they initially fit quite well, and I wasn't able to do many of the moves you do.

Boots can be too snug, especially around the toes. I very possibly got my osteoarthritis (in my case metatarsal bone spurs) because my misfit boots were too snug there, causing the toes & metatarsals to rub together, and maybe I have bunions as well (my big and little toes gradually changed angles to point inwards), despite repeated heat molds and punches. I wish I had given up on my old boots a long time ago. I hope you are able and willing to upgrade.

Could someone with appropriate experience suggest what boots the o.p. might switch to, given all the pointing and flexing and bending they are subjected too? (I assume not super-high-level boots designed for triple or quad jumps, because they would be too stiff to allow all that. For that level durability, would good quality leather uppers be better than synthetics? Or do I have that wrong?)

Jackson Elles are nominally heat moldable. But the toebox is the least easy place to widen by heat molding and punching, because you have a complete arch over the foot, and because figure skates have to be relatively stiff there, from a basic structural perspective. I was unable to successfully widen the toebox of my old skates enough for comfort despite repunching (sometimes with heat) every few days. If you don't want osteoarthritis and/or bunions (or other damage, if the boots are too short), I personally think a good fitter is worth it, even if the travel costs are as much as the boots themselves.

 

[Diana Delafield]

They're Jackson Elle's.

I'm an ambidextrous spinner so I currently haves my front scratch, corkscrew, layback, sit, and backspin in both directions and am consistently hitting 8-12 revs on all of them which probably helps with boot longevity since I train them equally. For forward spins I'm regularly getting 8-12 revs easy, and Turn wise I can do 3 turns, brackets, and twizzles, and pivots. I also have spiral sequences.

I'm curious, considering your own description of your technical level, why you still want to use Jackson Elles? The company themselves describe them as being for beginners. Is there something about the Elle boot that you really love so much that you'd rather not graduate to a stronger, more advanced boot? (Either still in the Jackson line, or from a different brand if that's what a professional fitter might recommend.) It's difficult to know what to advise for you without knowing why your heart is set on keeping your old, worn-down boots or replacing them with the same model.

 

[robot]

I'm curious, considering your own description of your technical level, why you still want to use Jackson Elles? The company themselves describe them as being for beginners. Is there something about the Elle boot that you really love so much that you'd rather not graduate to a stronger, more advanced boot? (Either still in the Jackson line, or from a different brand if that's what a professional fitter might recommend.) It's difficult to know what to advise for you without knowing why your heart is set on keeping your old, worn-down boots or replacing them with the same model.

Short answer:
1) a Jackson 5w fits me (more or less) directly out of the box with zero modifications
2) the boots and blades arrive mounted with the blade (more or less) correctly positioned
3) I can buy them online directly through Jackson ready to wear and don't need a fitter



Long answer:
The only fitter in my area everyone goes to and travels to misfitted me and confiscated (ie refunded) my skates after I went back to have them modified only for the modifications to make me feel more unsafe in those skates. As a result, that fitter/skate store will no longer fit me for skates, sell me boots or blades , mount any blades, or punch out boots. They only are willing to heat mold my skates and sharpen my blades, which works out well for both of us since while I don't think either of us wants to work with one another as fitter-skater again, she does a good job at sharpening especially given I let the hollow flatten out by extending the life of a sharpening with a honing stone.

And the thing is, Ive been in Jackson Elle's for 3 yrs and am on my 3rd set at the moment. I have loved these skates. I have hated these skates. I have been sent to the hospital by these skates. I have learned everything I know on these skates. I also rarely fall in these skates. Maybe since I don't try and work on basics so much that I was able to go from 2 foot spins to what I have now in 3-4 month after realizing that it's not my skates holding me back from these spins, it's me. Adding bunga pads to my ankles and cut up bunga gels to the top of my foot activated the spinning ability of the boots, and I guess I'm hanging on to this set since they've been really good to me. Each time I have a lackluster skate and say I want to retire them, I just skate in a way that makes me so happy the next day that it's like they're magically stiff again. Maybe I'm just getting stronger.........

But even though I've had really bad times on these skates, the good times outweigh the bad days by such a large amount that I can't hold it against them. They have given me so much- strength, conditioning , and the ability to endure the unendurable day after day after day without faltering. I've also started to just really trust and feel in sync with them over this last year. Especially since I can feel the entire blade with my foot and just have this sense of where the foot and blade are in space to the extent that I feel so stable and safe on that blade most of the time.

It's also hard to get rid of a skate that has really always come back from the dead to give me one more, and another and another and so on..... push. And im just so grateful to these skates. I love these skates and my body. Not once have they failed me as long as my mind has held solid. Even when I've injured myself on them- I know my mistake and have long since fixed it- and even then they've made me so insanely strong that I've been able to feel immense gratitude towards my boots by giving me this incredible gift of what I feel like are unstoppable spins . I may wait years to be brave enough to try a new skill and work on things I can fall on, but once I start attempting stuff I stay upright and make progress while still being actively offended at the ice when I fall since it's so rare.

After sticking with the Elle's for so long and getting close to year 4 and ossibly another pair of Elle's or freestyles and no coach since I feel like it's a waste of money given my current equipment, I've just resigned myself and given up all hope that equipment wise things will get better. I wish I was brave enough to use social media to share my skills in an effort to get a skate company or shop to gift me skates and help, but I'm not. One day I will be a force of nature to recon with but for now I'll endure and change the only thing I can- my attitude.

 

[Diana Delafield]

Short answer:
1) a Jackson 5w fits me (more or less) directly out of the box with zero modifications
2) the boots and blades arrive mounted with the blade (more or less) correctly positioned
3) I can buy them online directly through Jackson ready to wear and don't need a fitter



Long answer:
The only fitter in my area everyone goes to and travels to misfitted me and confiscated (ie refunded) my skates after I went back to have them modified only for the modifications to make me feel more unsafe in those skates. As a result, that fitter/skate store will no longer fit me for skates, sell me boots or blades , mount any blades, or punch out boots. They only are willing to heat mold my skates and sharpen my blades, which works out well for both of us since while I don't think either of us wants to work with one another as fitter-skater again, she does a good job at sharpening especially given I let the hollow flatten out by extending the life of a sharpening with a honing stone.

And the thing is, Ive been in Jackson Elle's for 3 yrs and am on my 3rd set at the moment. I have loved these skates. I have hated these skates. I have been sent to the hospital by these skates. I have learned everything I know on these skates. I also rarely fall in these skates. Maybe since I don't try and work on basics so much that I was able to go from 2 foot spins to what I have now in 3-4 month after realizing that it's not my skates holding me back from these spins, it's me. Adding bunga pads to my ankles and cut up bunga gels to the top of my foot activated the spinning ability of the boots, and I guess I'm hanging on to this set since they've been really good to me. Each time I have a lackluster skate and say I want to retire them, I just skate in a way that makes me so happy the next day that it's like they're magically stiff again. Maybe I'm just getting stronger.........

Can't argue with that degree of attachment, I guess .

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

Short answer:
1) a Jackson 5w fits me (more or less) directly out of the box with zero modifications
2) the boots and blades arrive mounted with the blade (more or less) correctly positioned
3) I can buy them online directly through Jackson ready to wear and don't need a fitter



Long answer:
The only fitter in my area everyone goes to and travels to misfitted me and confiscated (ie refunded) my skates after I went back to have them modified only for the modifications to make me feel more unsafe in those skates. As a result, that fitter/skate store will no longer fit me for skates, sell me boots or blades , mount any blades, or punch out boots. They only are willing to heat mold my skates and sharpen my blades, which works out well for both of us since while I don't think either of us wants to work with one another as fitter-skater again, she does a good job at sharpening especially given I let the hollow flatten out by extending the life of a sharpening with a honing stone.

And the thing is, Ive been in Jackson Elle's for 3 yrs and am on my 3rd set at the moment. I have loved these skates. I have hated these skates. I have been sent to the hospital by these skates. I have learned everything I know on these skates. I also rarely fall in these skates. Maybe since I don't try and work on basics so much that I was able to go from 2 foot spins to what I have now in 3-4 month after realizing that it's not my skates holding me back from these spins, it's me. Adding bunga pads to my ankles and cut up bunga gels to the top of my foot activated the spinning ability of the boots, and I guess I'm hanging on to this set since they've been really good to me. Each time I have a lackluster skate and say I want to retire them, I just skate in a way that makes me so happy the next day that it's like they're magically stiff again. Maybe I'm just getting stronger.........

But even though I've had really bad times on these skates, the good times outweigh the bad days by such a large amount that I can't hold it against them. They have given me so much- strength, conditioning , and the ability to endure the unendurable day after day after day without faltering. I've also started to just really trust and feel in sync with them over this last year. Especially since I can feel the entire blade with my foot and just have this sense of where the foot and blade are in space to the extent that I feel so stable and safe on that blade most of the time.

It's also hard to get rid of a skate that has really always come back from the dead to give me one more, and another and another and so on..... push. And im just so grateful to these skates. I love these skates and my body. Not once have they failed me as long as my mind has held solid. Even when I've injured myself on them- I know my mistake and have long since fixed it- and even then they've made me so insanely strong that I've been able to feel immense gratitude towards my boots by giving me this incredible gift of what I feel like are unstoppable spins . I may wait years to be brave enough to try a new skill and work on things I can fall on, but once I start attempting stuff I stay upright and make progress while still being actively offended at the ice when I fall since it's so rare.

After sticking with the Elle's for so long and getting close to year 4 and ossibly another pair of Elle's or freestyles and no coach since I feel like it's a waste of money given my current equipment, I've just resigned myself and given up all hope that equipment wise things will get better. I wish I was brave enough to use social media to share my skills in an effort to get a skate company or shop to gift me skates and help, but I'm not. One day I will be a force of nature to recon with but for now I'll endure and change the only thing I can- my attitude.

Except top skate companies only gift skates to Elite figure skaters. Find another fitter that will do the job right in your area or nearby or ask us, many of us know some across the globe and we are willing to help you. You also definitely need a coach.
But honestly OTOH, if it is not a doable thing to buy boots that you require at your level and height/weight due to monetary issues, then this sport which is extremely expensive is probably not a good idea, I hate to say this. I love for all to be able to participate safely in the sport, and you cannot go much further in an elle rec skate set up. You just cannot safely do so. I wish you all the best.

 

[robot]

Except top skate companies only gift skates to Elite figure skaters. Find another fitter that will do the job right in your area or nearby or ask us, many of us know some across the globe and we are willing to help you. You also definitely need a coach.
But honestly OTOH, if it is not a doable thing to buy boots that you require at your level and height/weight due to monetary issues, then this sport which is extremely expensive is probably not a good idea, I hate to say this. I love for all to be able to participate safely in the sport, and you cannot go much further in an elle rec skate set up. You just cannot safely do so. I wish you all the best.

The real issue isn't the cost of the boots themselves, but the cost of airfare and a hotel stay to go get them. I really just need to find someone I can trust to mount a blade in exactly the same position as the Elle and then ship it to me. That way I can get it modified if I ever vacation near a good fitter, and am essentially getting the same fit that I would by buying another Elle anyway- just stiffer.

Especially since I already know that a Jackson women's 5w fits well enough that it doesn't need to be modified at all, so as long as the boots are straight from the factory and have never been worn even if just briefly to try it on, i would feel comfortable getting blades fully mounted without ever actually trying on the skates first. I really am just that confident on Jackson sizing assuming it's the same as the Elle's.

My main concern with buying and having them mounted online is getting sold skates that someone may have tried them on thus ruining the direct from factory unmodified fit I'm counting on, or the blades not being centered exactly the same on both boots in the same position they are on the Elle's. Both of which have actually happened to me online and in person before.

Boot wise I'm confident that I'm going to go with the debut low rise boot since I'm enjoying the extra range of motion in my left Elle boot from the back starting to tear down the back, but blade wise is where I could really use advice. Whats the flattest 8 ft main rocker with smaller toe pick with a decent spin rocker I could get away with? If I can spin on mirage, then I can afford sacrificing easier spins for extra stability in any blade.

 

[robot]

That's the one thing i forgot to mention about why I love the Elle's- I am able to get it fresh from the factory unmodified with the blades in exactly the same position each time. It's guaranteed that the blade is exactly where I want it and I'll be the first and only person to wear the boot .

In other words I love that it's so standardized that it's easy to replace without any hassle and without any heat molding or blade moving needed

 

[tstop4me]

Whats the flattest 8 ft main rocker with smaller toe pick with a decent spin rocker I could get away with? If I can spin on mirage, then I can afford sacrificing easier spins for extra stability in any blade.

* I'm having a difficult time parsing what you wrote. What does "flattest" modify?

* Right now, it reads as if it modifies "8 ft main rocker". That is, you are looking for a blade with the "flattest 8 ft main rocker". In which case, that makes no sense. If we are talking about flatness in the longitudinal direction (toe to heel), then the flatness of the main rocker is determined by its longitudinal radius; in this instance, 8 ft. That is, all blades with an 8 ft main rocker have the same longitudinal flatness of the main rocker. There will be deviations arising from manufacturing inconsistencies, of course.

* Or, are you talking about flatness in the transverse direction (inside edge to outside edge) of the main rocker? In which case, the flatness of the main rocker in the transverse direction is determined by the radius of hollow (ROH). You can specify your target ROH to your sharpener; it's under your control, regardless of the blade you purchase.

* Or, does "flattest" refer to the spin rocker? That is, you want an 8 ft main rocker with the flattest spin rocker that you can still spin decently on? And you're looking for a spin rocker that is flatter than the spin rocker on the Mirage?

 

[Query]

FWIIW, very simple modifications to the insole, that you can do by adding a little tape, or sanding, can have essentially the same effect as moving ("offsetting") the blade sideways a bit. Because all you are mostly doing is changing the weight distribution.

Re-mounting your own blades is a bit of a challenge, though some of us have done it.

I do not know enough about Jackson boots to say whether the fit is similar for other Jackson boot models. And it is true that fit tends to be more critical with stiffer boots, because they can't be modified as much. Nonetheless, minor modifications to the insole, as well as punches you can do yourself with a ball and ring pliers and a hair drier (after letting your pro shop do the heat molding) can usually improve fit - but as I said, the toebox is very hard to change much, especially on higher level boots.

It's a shame you don't have a better relationship with your local skate tech. But it is good that you like the job she does at heat molding and sharpening. If Jackson didn't accept the returned boots, or if she had to pay return shipping, she took a pretty big loss on that. But most pro shops, AFAIK, make most of their money on sharpening. So maybe she will make some of it back over time. And in all fairness, fitting skates exactly right seems to be very difficult, in no small part because boot makers aren't all that consistent in the way they make boots. What was the change she tried to make that she messed up?

Perhaps Jackson Elles fit you right in part because they aren't very high level - they are soft enough to conform more to your feet than high level boots would.

Are you using the hand hone to actually sharpen, or just using it to re-straighten the edges? (Edges tend to get knocked sideways (inwards or outwards, depending...), especially if you don't put on blade guards before stepping off-ice. I think a lot of the time people just need to straighten the edges rather than re-sharpen them.) I.E., what is your honing technique?

If you don't happen to use blade guards that way, it's a good idea, though I suggest you put on one guard, step with it off-ice, then the other, rather than trying to balance on the ice wearing guards on both blades at once, especially if using hard guards.) That way you need fewer sharpenings and honings. And again, I suggest you dry off your blades after you take them off, and don't store them in hard guards between skating sessions, because edges last longer that way too. Even a little moisture, or a little dirt inside the hard guard channels, messes up the edges.

Many skaters who don't have to travel great distances, and pay the costs of doing so, to find a great skate tech, don't appreciate just how hard it is to deal with that. I'm glad that you have found a practical way to do so. I don't know what to say about whether you should try to get them re-heat-molded. There is a risk that that will make them too soft, or widen them too much elsewhere. (AFAICT, heat molding on Jackson Freestyles only widens them - it can't make them thinner.)

Were I you, to make more space for the toes, I would try one of the things I suggested before - remove the insoles, trace them out on something a bit thinner, cut that something to the same outside shape, and use the thinner insoles you create that way in place of the old insoles. That just might make you enough space to help. But keep the old insoles, in case you don't like the results. And I admit it will create a looser fit elsewhere. (I assume you don't feel up to cutting something like a skin-safe closed cell foam in a three dimensional manner, thinning them at the toes, but not so much in the rest of the skate, so they aren't looser fitting there.)

However, that might not be enough. Especially if what is really happening is that the stiffening material inside your toeboxes is breaking down, and is pinching your toes when you put weight on your toepick.