Out of all of them, only Meissner, Hughes and Czisny have been proven. Meissner seems to be ok...I was a little surprised at her missing jumps at SA but let's see how Nats goes. As for Hughes, she was a solid top 10 favorite at the Torino Olys and Calgary Worlds. She just barely made it in Tokyo, though (understandable given the tougher competition). And we all know about Czisny...don't mean to knock her, but she just won't get it done for us.
Is Kimmie Meissner underrated?
- Thread starter slutskayafan21
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- Feb 7, 2006
Whew! Finally, we are back to Kimmie. This thread for a while there had strayed so far off the original topic, I thought I had been accidentally switched to a different thread altogether.
With all due respect to you folks who seem to want to nit-pick Kimmie to death, you all seem to be ignoring two basic facts:
(1) The new (well, pretty new) judging system has brought forth, whether necessarily or not, a micro-analysis of skating details (jumps, spins, etc.) that attempts to make separation of skaters' quality easy for the judges. I mean, who among us ever heard of "pre-rotation", "underrotation", "cheating", etc., before the new system started? Under today's scoring system, would Kristi have won the '92 Olympics? Oksana in '94? Tara in '98? The judges in those 3 Olympic simply judged the way the sport had been judged for years and years and years. Those judges knew who landed the jumps and who didn't. They knew who made the beautiful and lyrical artistic moves and who didn't. The cream rose to the top, and the skater who put the elements together in combination the best won the event.. Ever since all this hi-tech microscopic analysis with monitors and computer graphics and all the rest began, skating seems to have lost much of its heart and soul, at least competitive skating. Give me back the days of 5.5, 5.6, 5.9, etc, any day.
(2) Only a very small fraction of all the female skaters we have seen over the past 50 years or so meet the standards of charisma, charm, interpreting music, connecting with the audience, et al, that many of you want skaters to meet. You could count them on your 10 fingers. When you realize that, you know that Kimmie doesn't come off badly at all.
With all due respect to you folks who seem to want to nit-pick Kimmie to death, you all seem to be ignoring two basic facts:
(1) The new (well, pretty new) judging system has brought forth, whether necessarily or not, a micro-analysis of skating details (jumps, spins, etc.) that attempts to make separation of skaters' quality easy for the judges. I mean, who among us ever heard of "pre-rotation", "underrotation", "cheating", etc., before the new system started? Under today's scoring system, would Kristi have won the '92 Olympics? Oksana in '94? Tara in '98? The judges in those 3 Olympic simply judged the way the sport had been judged for years and years and years. Those judges knew who landed the jumps and who didn't. They knew who made the beautiful and lyrical artistic moves and who didn't. The cream rose to the top, and the skater who put the elements together in combination the best won the event.. Ever since all this hi-tech microscopic analysis with monitors and computer graphics and all the rest began, skating seems to have lost much of its heart and soul, at least competitive skating. Give me back the days of 5.5, 5.6, 5.9, etc, any day.
(2) Only a very small fraction of all the female skaters we have seen over the past 50 years or so meet the standards of charisma, charm, interpreting music, connecting with the audience, et al, that many of you want skaters to meet. You could count them on your 10 fingers. When you realize that, you know that Kimmie doesn't come off badly at all.
- Joined
- Jul 1, 2007
Everyone that was actually in the skating world?
The new system has made it nearly impossible for the casual fan to understand the marks and thus has a tendency to distance the casual fans who hate numbers and just want to watch, not think.
The only thing that the new system really invented all on its own was the Level 4 Step Sequence. I can't recall any person ever doing a Step Sequence which would qualify as level 4 before CoP existed (and it continues to be an element that is rarer than a clean Quad jump).
I can not agree. There have been, and there continues to be, a large amount of beautiful skaters out there who simply weren't good enough on the tech side.
But even aside from the unknown and lesser-known skaters of the World, I still find Kimmie to be one of the least interesting U.S. female Champions ever.
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- Feb 7, 2006
Everyone that was actually in the skating world?
The new system has made it nearly impossible for the casual fan to understand the marks and thus has a tendency to distance the casual fans who hate numbers and just want to watch, not think.
Well, let's see........... I'm 66 and I have watched every U.S. Nationals, Worlds, and Olympics(skating) since 1965 and have recorded all of those events plus many others, either tape or dvd, since 1983 and I am still recording.
I go back to watch favorite skaters' routines in that vast collection to enjoy the performances, but I don't really freeze-frame on the jumps to see whether it is flutzed or under-rotated or whatever. I listen to the commentary, however, and I do know that before the new system began I never heard a commentator say "That's a flutz" or "that's under-rotated" or similar microscopic observation. Maybe the only reason they didn't was because they figured most of the audience would not be interested.
But my question to you is, if I'm the AVID fan of skating that the above describes, can I STILL be called a CASUAL fan who "doesn't want to think"? I guess maybe if I like to observe the "big picture" for an overall visual impression, you may be right.. But yet I have to admit that I AM watching the jumps more closely nowadays, even though I still can't identify the imperfections very well - must be the old eyesight, eh?
- Joined
- Feb 7, 2006
There have been, and there continues to be, a large amount of beautiful skaters out there who simply weren't good enough on the tech side.
Well, OK, what is "beautiful"? We all have different opinions of the same skater. IMO, there is NO female skater at the present time who scores high in ALL of the "ingredients" I mentioned above. Kimmie couldn't have gotten the wild standing ovation at 2006 Worlds if she hadn't "connected with the audience". On the other hand, Mao Asada is pretty to watch, but doesn't IMO "connect with the audience" so well. Even Yukari Nakano is better than Mao in that aspect.
Well, OK, what is "beautiful"? We all have different opinions of the same skater. IMO, there is NO female skater at the present time who scores high in ALL of the "ingredients" I mentioned above. Kimmie couldn't have gotten the wild standing ovation at 2006 Worlds if she hadn't "connected with the audience". On the other hand, Mao Asada is pretty to watch, but doesn't IMO "connect with the audience" so well. Even Yukari Nakano is better than Mao in that aspect.
What's the rule for a skater to go to worlds??? I mean, the age rule, I think Flatt can be elegible. If it's possible, no more Hughes nor Alyssa!!! I want Wagner & Flatt to back up Kimmie. BtW Flatt will turn out 16 on July 21. So what's the rule again???
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- Aug 27, 2003
Well being a gold medalist yourself (nationals, Worlds?) perhaps you could give her some pointers.
Flatt needed to turn 15 by July 1, 2007 in order to be age-eligible for 2008 Worlds and Four Continents (ISU senior championships). She turned 15 in late July of this year.
Reposting link to the thread where this discussion is more on-topic:
http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/showthread.php?t=18022
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- Dec 29, 2004
So sorry if this has already been addressed... but all skaters are athletes. I personally love "Ta-Da" - she's a powerful jumper and even when she falters, she committs and to me that's refreshing to see... And yes, Kimmie is underrated, but like Red Dog said earlier, she's in the sandwich generation.... the greats are gone and little ones are just hitting the senior scene... but in no way should that take away from Kimmie as a skater.... I just think that US fans watched Kwan and Cohen for years and have arbitrarilty decided that if you couldn't will yourself to victory or place your leg vertically, then you should allow them to concede defeat on your behalf... total hogwash...
This whole next generation has its own issues... lack of a complete set of triples, serious injuries, a rampant media, and a new world where healthly development of young bodies is secondary to psychoic technical demands and a judging system that doesn't reflect or honor the creative history of the sport. (Which goes back to my original statement of all skaters are athletes...but whatever. this seems to be a constant fantasy world that skating fans like to live in...)
I'm hopeful that Kimmie and Emily continue to develop and grow as skaters, athletes and young women who represent the country well in this sport. Just like the ones who became before them...
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- Jun 27, 2003
I'm not sure what type of fan I qualify as... but I've been a fan of skating for 18 years... I've never skated (competitively, or even learned for fun!) and I can't really tell a Lutz from a Flip from a Sal and I can't tell you what a rocker or mohawk is...
and top if off I hate math
but I actually like the CoP
so it hasn't turned me off
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
I really do not undestand the topic of this thead. I don't think Kimmie is being underrated by the judges. IMO, she deserved her win Calgary and her 4th place in Tokyo. She didn't exactly blow my mind at SA but neither did the World Champion.
It's a wait and see for the podium in all the next competitions for Kimmie.
Joe
It's a wait and see for the podium in all the next competitions for Kimmie.
Joe
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2005
I never said I felt Kimmie was underrated by judges. I feel she is underrated by fans, media, and those who cover and follow the sport in general.
Couldn't agree more. I'm always amazed at how few people even mention her name when discussing the 2010 Olympics.
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- Jun 3, 2007
I agree Kimmie is underrated. I actually enjoy watching her and I admire her dedication to the sport. I was pleasantly surprised by her two new programs this year and I think they'll be great to watch once she gets more comfortable with them.
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- Aug 29, 2003
I like her personality from what I've seen in interviews, but her skating has no pizzaz, IMO. 
- Joined
- Mar 21, 2005
She is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyyyy overrated
Hmm...........
I think she is rated right where she should be. A solid if uninspiring skater, who handles pressure well. This quality sometimes works to her advantage when others fall apart. She is not a MIchelle Kwan or a Sasha Cohen, or for that matter, an Irina Slutskaya. They were all brilliant in their own way. Unless Kimmie has hidden depths, I don't see her as having a huge impact on the sport. I would love to be proved wrong.
I think she is rated right where she should be. A solid if uninspiring skater, who handles pressure well. This quality sometimes works to her advantage when others fall apart. She is not a MIchelle Kwan or a Sasha Cohen, or for that matter, an Irina Slutskaya. They were all brilliant in their own way. Unless Kimmie has hidden depths, I don't see her as having a huge impact on the sport. I would love to be proved wrong.
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- Jul 1, 2007
I heard these things before the CoP came out? Just by commentators too. Calling a jump "cheated" was just the more common term for "underrotated".
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2005
You are right, Sasha never won a World or Olympic title, Kimmie as a teenager already has, and at Sasha's expense too.
Uh, I don't Think So
Slutskayafan, World title or not, Kimmie Meissner is a blip in the history of skating. Sasha Cohen will be remembered as one of the most gifted and talented skaters to ever hit the ice, and this is from a Michelle fan. By the way, take a look at all the World Skating Champs through the 20th century and see how many actually had an impact on figure skating in general (if you can even remember all of them). Most of them were forgettable. Sasha is unforgettable.
Slutskayafan, World title or not, Kimmie Meissner is a blip in the history of skating. Sasha Cohen will be remembered as one of the most gifted and talented skaters to ever hit the ice, and this is from a Michelle fan. By the way, take a look at all the World Skating Champs through the 20th century and see how many actually had an impact on figure skating in general (if you can even remember all of them). Most of them were forgettable. Sasha is unforgettable.
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