Is the Olympic season Rhythm Dance exciting?
- Thread starter Anna K.
- Start date
- Joined
- Dec 4, 2004
You are not off topic. People from Sarah Brightman to Celtic Woman realized that having their shows aired on PBS brought them fame and fortune. I am so old I remember when disc jockies where paid "Payola" to play and artist's tunes for exposure. Artists should be paying skaters, not the other way around.
In the aftermath of what happened at Finlandia trophy I looked up the chairpeople of the tech committees, and for pairs and singles it's Eric Radford, and for ice dance it's Shawn Rettstatt. Not much info is available on him, probably he was not near a top level skater, it's not even clear in which discipline he skated. He attended a university in some movie-related degree, but it's not clear if he graduated. Does this person sound like he is qualified to a be technical committee chairman? I am not sure. To make things worse he has his own business, which probably keeps him busy and has nothing to do with skating and dance, it's about luxury travel and luxury food: https://starsofafrica.se/team-stars...ive-stars-of-africa-usashawnstarsofafrica-se/
It was probably discussed before, but because I am least interested in ice dance, I miss these things. If you did too, here is a recent interview with him: https://fs-gossips.com/13784/
In terms of making RD assignments, he only talks about music. Not even about music styles, rather about the time it was written and vague description of "vibes". Seriously, is this an ice dance event or a music contest we are talking about? He doesn't seem to understand that dance style and music style are two very different things, that the dance style is defined not by the time the music was written, but by rhythm, character of movements and an overall artistic goal. Music and dance styles can permeate many decades, and can be imitated successfully a couple of millennia after they were created, as long as the descriptions remain and are intelligible. He says: "Certainly our goal initially for the Olympic season was to do music of the 21st century."
What does it have to do with dance: rhythm, movement character, artistic goal? What does it have to do with skating: gliding on edges? Nothing. It has everything to do with how he understands being popular. He doesn't even care to study the subject he is talking about, i.e. music, and then completely dismisses the part of the audience that listens not only to the pop-music. He says things like: "let's take waltz out of a ball room". You know, we already did. When I was a kid I went to a summer camp, and we had a waltz contest preceded by a couple of basic training sessions just outside on the lawn to some pop-music of the time in 3/4 rhythm. We kids danced in whatever we were - shorts, skirts, T-shirts - because obviously nobody brought any ballroom dresses and taxes to the camp, I am sure other people had similar experiences. So in his mind we should take an art form and make a kid summer camp contest out of it, this is the way he understands contemporaneity, and he thinks this level is good enough for an Olympic sport. I cringe at the thought that tough guys from other sports will laugh at this year's RD at the Olys, and there no justification for doing otherwise. We can no longer say: look, this is beautiful, this is insanely difficult, this is perfection, this is an art form. And now they'll also kill the choreography: one had better only do it during choreo-elements lest it be counted as such.
The part where he talks about a 4 year plan is unintelligible: a 4 year plan is great, but then he says something that makes me think that the plan will be "this Olympic cycle we'll do circus", or "vaudeville", or "waltz and foxtrot with modern pop-music" (oh, boy, such genre doesn't even exist, they'll have to create it from scratch, and how often do people come up with brilliant ideas in an uncharted territory?), and then "we’ve got ... four seasons to come up with an idea of different genres, of different rhythm dances that could build up to the Olympics". So the plan is to make a plan on the go.
He says some reasonable things about AI music, except he is probably unaware that AI music technology is underdeveloped to put it mildly. But then something unintelligible again: if the requirement is music from the 90s, why is modern AI music imitation even allowed? If it's just AI post-processing to connect the pieces, judges should be able to find the pieces on google.
Then in answer to the question "will AI be used for judging", he mentions the software that japanese TV uses to visualize jump trajectory and estimate height and length.
Like I said: not going to happen. In the next decade or so no magic AI thing will come and sort out URs. But Shawn apparently does watch figure skating on TV sometimes, good for him.
All this interview is a bunch of inconsistencies and has nothing to do with ice dance and skating in general. He talks about ice dance not at all, not a single minute.
I get a feeling that this person is well to do, has his business, his hobbies, is probably able to help organize ISU congresses in luxury locations, and is very detached from skating. He really talks like a someone who is unaware and not interested. I am not sure how much of a direction setter he is. Maybe he comes to worlds once a year, sees a full rink of spectators and says: oh, look, we are doing great, lets do the same thing next season. Or he comes to the office once in a while, his subordinates ask him: what shall we do for RD next year, and he says: yeah, let's do the 90s, should be fun, bye. And then he is off to safaris and luxury food while Sandra Bezic, Catelyn Weaver, etc. pore on making things work.
It was probably discussed before, but because I am least interested in ice dance, I miss these things. If you did too, here is a recent interview with him: https://fs-gossips.com/13784/
In terms of making RD assignments, he only talks about music. Not even about music styles, rather about the time it was written and vague description of "vibes". Seriously, is this an ice dance event or a music contest we are talking about? He doesn't seem to understand that dance style and music style are two very different things, that the dance style is defined not by the time the music was written, but by rhythm, character of movements and an overall artistic goal. Music and dance styles can permeate many decades, and can be imitated successfully a couple of millennia after they were created, as long as the descriptions remain and are intelligible. He says: "Certainly our goal initially for the Olympic season was to do music of the 21st century."
What does it have to do with dance: rhythm, movement character, artistic goal? What does it have to do with skating: gliding on edges? Nothing. It has everything to do with how he understands being popular. He doesn't even care to study the subject he is talking about, i.e. music, and then completely dismisses the part of the audience that listens not only to the pop-music. He says things like: "let's take waltz out of a ball room". You know, we already did. When I was a kid I went to a summer camp, and we had a waltz contest preceded by a couple of basic training sessions just outside on the lawn to some pop-music of the time in 3/4 rhythm. We kids danced in whatever we were - shorts, skirts, T-shirts - because obviously nobody brought any ballroom dresses and taxes to the camp, I am sure other people had similar experiences. So in his mind we should take an art form and make a kid summer camp contest out of it, this is the way he understands contemporaneity, and he thinks this level is good enough for an Olympic sport. I cringe at the thought that tough guys from other sports will laugh at this year's RD at the Olys, and there no justification for doing otherwise. We can no longer say: look, this is beautiful, this is insanely difficult, this is perfection, this is an art form. And now they'll also kill the choreography: one had better only do it during choreo-elements lest it be counted as such.The part where he talks about a 4 year plan is unintelligible: a 4 year plan is great, but then he says something that makes me think that the plan will be "this Olympic cycle we'll do circus", or "vaudeville", or "waltz and foxtrot with modern pop-music" (oh, boy, such genre doesn't even exist, they'll have to create it from scratch, and how often do people come up with brilliant ideas in an uncharted territory?), and then "we’ve got ... four seasons to come up with an idea of different genres, of different rhythm dances that could build up to the Olympics". So the plan is to make a plan on the go.
He says some reasonable things about AI music, except he is probably unaware that AI music technology is underdeveloped to put it mildly. But then something unintelligible again: if the requirement is music from the 90s, why is modern AI music imitation even allowed? If it's just AI post-processing to connect the pieces, judges should be able to find the pieces on google.
Then in answer to the question "will AI be used for judging", he mentions the software that japanese TV uses to visualize jump trajectory and estimate height and length.
Like I said: not going to happen. In the next decade or so no magic AI thing will come and sort out URs. But Shawn apparently does watch figure skating on TV sometimes, good for him.All this interview is a bunch of inconsistencies and has nothing to do with ice dance and skating in general. He talks about ice dance not at all, not a single minute.
I get a feeling that this person is well to do, has his business, his hobbies, is probably able to help organize ISU congresses in luxury locations, and is very detached from skating. He really talks like a someone who is unaware and not interested. I am not sure how much of a direction setter he is. Maybe he comes to worlds once a year, sees a full rink of spectators and says: oh, look, we are doing great, lets do the same thing next season. Or he comes to the office once in a while, his subordinates ask him: what shall we do for RD next year, and he says: yeah, let's do the 90s, should be fun, bye. And then he is off to safaris and luxury food while Sandra Bezic, Catelyn Weaver, etc. pore on making things work.
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- Joined
- Jan 3, 2007
1988 US Figure Skating Championships - Denver, Colorado - Junior Dance
#1 Elizabeth Punsalan / Shawn Rettstatt
Early in her career, Punsalan competed with Shawn Rettstatt. They placed 8th in Senior Dance at the 1989 U.S. Championships. Punsalan began skating with future husband Jerrod Swallow in mid-1989.
That's a description of an ideal chairman IMHO. I would vote for him. I like bosses who don't interfere with my work and I don't mind board meetings in luxury locations. He also sounds open to ideas rather than forcing his ideas on the board - perfect!
I can absolutely see why he was elected and I have no problem with his attitude. There is a nuance though.
People vote for this type of a chairman in two occasions: in the occasion they want to work in peace and in the occasion they don't want to work at all. I wonder which has been the case here
He is also good looking and seems easy-going. Hopefully, he is nice and polite to his colleagues. So, yes, I can see your point.That's a description of an ideal chairman IMHO. I would vote for him. I like bosses who don't interfere with my work and I don't mind board meetings in luxury locations. He also sounds open to ideas rather than forcing his ideas on the board - perfect!
I can absolutely see why he was elected and I have no problem with his attitude. There is a nuance though.
People vote for this type of a chairman in two occasions: in the occasion they want to work in peace and in the occasion they don't want to work at all. I wonder which has been the case here
Oh, I can also visualize how the board could easily vote for this season's music idea. On a nice day after drinking a few martinis...He is also good looking and seems easy-going. Hopefully, he is nice and polite to his colleagues. So, yes, I can see your point.
On a more serious note though, aren't these ISU meetings being streamed via their YouTube channel nowadays?
I never followed these but for those who did: can the actual discussion be found somehow so that we can see what the arguments behind this season's idea and the whole plan of the current Olympic cycle were?
It would be interesting to look back at it now.
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- Joined
- Mar 7, 2015
Well... I have to say that the RD this year have been of the utmost disappointment.
I also have to agree that Shawn Restatt should no longer be at the head of the ice dance technical committee.
The RDs are already not great... the last two events he was Tech controller were ruined by uncanny calls. Even skaters who have been gracious all their career about judging are now complaining... That says it all.
I also have to agree that Shawn Restatt should no longer be at the head of the ice dance technical committee.
The RDs are already not great... the last two events he was Tech controller were ruined by uncanny calls. Even skaters who have been gracious all their career about judging are now complaining... That says it all.
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2003
Actually, the hard enforcement of the current rules should have been started on Day 1 of the season. They shouldn't have had loose calling for the first couple GP's and then cracked down
Skate Canada & GP France competitors should not have had very different calling than Finlandia and Skate America competitors. I felt Finlandia was more in line with this year's rules than the earlier events.
Claims that 120 bpm is too fast are untrue. The Yankee Polka is 120 bpm. Seniors used to be expected to be able to do it.
What has happened is that sport has been de-emphasizing exact timing and authentic presentation of rhythms for years.
It is not ice dancing any more-it is gliding to almost beat free music, especially in the FDs
When the Browns did a real waltz and a real tarantella during their FD this year, I was just so thrilled to see ice dancing attempted again!
I hope to see more of it, but I see the ice gliders are pushing back.
If I wanted to watch great gliding on skates, I would watch the 10 km speed skating races.
Skate Canada & GP France competitors should not have had very different calling than Finlandia and Skate America competitors. I felt Finlandia was more in line with this year's rules than the earlier events.
Claims that 120 bpm is too fast are untrue. The Yankee Polka is 120 bpm. Seniors used to be expected to be able to do it.
What has happened is that sport has been de-emphasizing exact timing and authentic presentation of rhythms for years.
It is not ice dancing any more-it is gliding to almost beat free music, especially in the FDs
When the Browns did a real waltz and a real tarantella during their FD this year, I was just so thrilled to see ice dancing attempted again!
I hope to see more of it, but I see the ice gliders are pushing back.
If I wanted to watch great gliding on skates, I would watch the 10 km speed skating races.
- Joined
- Mar 7, 2015
I would have been fine with this... but the way it was done just wrecked the whole tie-breaker situation. It also sends a weird message about what's about to happen at the games. Will the calls be loose or will they not ?
I think it was GP France and Cup of China that had the looser panels... but definitely, Finlandia and SKAM were harsh. The issue I have is that there is a need for consistency... not just within the same event but across the season. Otherwise, it feels. like though the rules are not changing, their interpretation is.. and that just doesn't sit well with me. It's unfair for everyone, not just the ones who were judged harshly. Those who benefited from lenient panels didn't get the same feedback as the others.
Agreed
I agree. Where is the dance ? Where are the dance holds ? I like gliding and flow in figure skating but in singles... in ice dance, I want to see dancing... not posing and acrobatics.
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2003
Exactly!! I want to see dancing! There are Pairs and singles for the other stuff.
I don't object to interesting, unique moves, even if acrobatic.
But I like holds and rhythms.
Weirdly, holds are being done by the much maligned C&B this year.
Last year their RD had a whole lot of different rhythms. Was this their protest?
I don't object to interesting, unique moves, even if acrobatic.
But I like holds and rhythms.
Weirdly, holds are being done by the much maligned C&B this year.
Last year their RD had a whole lot of different rhythms. Was this their protest?
- Joined
- Mar 7, 2015
Other teams have given up. Granted there weren't that many dancing in holds to start with, but why should they if it doesn't get rewarded ?
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2003
I think they believe in the concept of ice dancing...in which case, I am for them.
- Joined
- Mar 7, 2015
When they retire as well as Piper and Paul and the Italians, who will still be dancing ?
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2003
The Browns
- Joined
- Mar 7, 2015
I haven't quite jumped on that wagon yet.
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2003
Understandable. The question was, who will be dancing? And this year in their FD, they did, at least at Skam.
It may not continue next year.
However, it is worth remembering,
Oona Brown plays the drums and piano and plays the snare in two Irish marching bands. Gage Brown plays the bagpipes in two Irish marching bands. He sings and plays the bass in a band he started with his two older brothers.
To march and drum you better be able at minimum to step in time.
It may not continue next year.
However, it is worth remembering,
Oona Brown plays the drums and piano and plays the snare in two Irish marching bands. Gage Brown plays the bagpipes in two Irish marching bands. He sings and plays the bass in a band he started with his two older brothers.
To march and drum you better be able at minimum to step in time.
- Joined
- Jan 3, 2007
This makes me think of Dick van Dyke dancing to Step in Time. I’d love to someone try this on ice - exhibition perhaps.
- Joined
- Jan 3, 2007
But they do get rewarded, that is where CB get their points, GP and GF as well. They may be the best teams left in the field that really understand and excel at dancing in hold. This is why the audience is so confused by their marks sometimes because they don’t understand how hard it is to do or be able to recognize it.
You may also be able to see this with the Shibs and FBC to a lesser extent. It will be largely extinct after this Olympic cycle sadly. Other teams that do well with this are The Browns and Ali & Saul and the Finns. I might add Lopareva & Brissaud who excel at tracking. It is hard to do super fast and they sometimes appear a bit slower. For a new fan I’d say watch how the shoulders and hips stay parallel with changes of direction.
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