Japanese Ice Shows: 2024 Collection

[synesthesia]

While in my own tastes I may agree with this, I would be way more cautious dumping on modern tastes as such, since your words have been more or less repeated about every 'pinnacle of artistic and innovation' in film and TV, in music, in literature, in art, in design - for the last 100-150 years at least including what we now thing of as 'real' pinnacles.

I am aware and I said that it's subjective.

Perhaps I shouldn't have used the term “artistic expression” because it's so elusive, and just stuck to innovation. To state the obvious: Anything mainstream is pandering to the lowest common denominator, which rarely has anything to do with innovation, because most creators actively seeking mainstream success are looking at what's currently selling best and trying to emulate that. Sometimes mainstream success is still achieved with unique ideas (which, in my opinion, is becoming increasingly difficult because so much has already been said and done) but then it’s not with that intent in mind, but by happy accident, if you will. I can say the same thing about several of my previous favourite artists, who started out by finding their own voice, daring to be different without sticking to what's currently en vogue, and then when they became reasonably successful they gradually lost their edge, stopped exploring their own possibilities and started sticking to a certain true and tried formula in an effort to try to expand their audience even more. In my opinion, as an artist, if I want to create something unique I can’t actively aim for mainstream success, but should stay true to myself, and if it happens by accident, that's fantastic (in other words what imo separates artists from mere "mainstream content creators" is the intention behind their creation).

To bring this back to shows – if we say the only thing that helps to get them on mainstream channels is to create better shows – what does “better” mean?

And be fair, a lot of today's mediocrity has yet had time to face into historical obscurity as the mediocrity of the 20th century has and is.

Yes, of course.

I do believe that a show like One Piece on Ice is way easier (and diverting; I believe that it's as legitimate to seek to unwind when watching a show, as to seek to deepen one's artistic or philosophical understanding or seeking the highest artistic emotion, we all have different needs at a given moment, and a same person may prefer different shows at different moments) to apprehend.

I completely agree (I said something to the same effect in a different discussion comparing shows on here, but you said it better than me ). But to be fair, I am no One Piece expert and I was told that there is more to the source material than what meets the eye at first glance and I think that what Anna K. was getting at is that more could have been done with OPOI to make it more successful (please correct me if I’m wrong @Anna K. ).

 

[Anna K.]

Well, I was actually trying to say that OPOI was a bad production. It had some good things in it, in particular, the performers did a good job. But the production was an absolute WTF.

I think OPOI can be best compared with Hyoen 2019: Like the Moon Light because both are fantasy adventure type of stories; one is an 11th century fantasy and the other is 21st century but both have adventures, fights and pirates, actually. Then, compare the naval battle in Hyoen with the static "ship" decoration in the background in OPOI and think about it. Just think.

My only hope is that there were people also in Japan who did the same comparison, asked same questions, and maybe... hopefully came to conclusion that manga on ice deserves better.

 

[Magill]

Perhaps I shouldn't have used the term “artistic expression” because it's so elusive, and just stuck to innovation. To state the obvious: Anything mainstream is pandering to the lowest common denominator, which rarely has anything to do with innovation, because most creators actively seeking mainstream success are looking at what's currently selling best and trying to emulate that.

I admit I disagree with this.
Think of the Beatles - and quoting John Lennon - the most commercially successful, mainstream and yet most innovative band of the 60.
Chopin and Liszt were the rockstars of their times, wildly popular and loved, fully mainstream, yet were they "pandering to the lowest common denominator"? Paddymania was there half a century before the Beatlemania, and yet Paderewski is still held in the highest regard for the quality of his piano playing, one of the legendary maestros.
I am pretty sure Yuzu is the Beatles, or Chopin, of FS, and in more ways than one.
As I said earlier, IMHO, commercial success is not a proof of artistic value, but it is not a proof of the lack of it, either.
Neither is the lack of commercial success, or criticizing others for theirs, a proof of one's own artistic value.
I guess it is mostly the opinion of the public and the artists of the times which may be a proof of anything...
Whatever future generations think, is a secret to us all, but it goes both ways and not just one...
Whatever we know now, is the only thing we know.

 

[DizzyFrenchie]

I agree. Historically speaking, we've had it all - geniuses being wildly popular or dying in poverty to be recognized just a few generations later. Most popular stars of their times quickly forgotten to give way to those less appreciated by their contemporaries.
Still, it is good to remember that while Chopin and Liszt, and Beethoven to a lesser extent, were enjoying rockstar popularity and utmost appreciation at their times and are held in highest regard till now, Mozart used to be often dismissed as "pop" and "easy", and Bach was quickly forgotten and looked down to as old-fashioned, while today they are both widely considered to be genius.

I know that when I was a child, we were told that Mozart hadn't been popular in his adulthood, but I think that by now we know that he was hugely popular until his death, by popular I mean with the people. He wasn't compliant enough to the taste of the higher-ups who had confiscated a lot of what used to allow him to live, in a time where copyrights didn't exist, he was "cancelled" by them probably because of his criticism of their ill-doings. He and his family had to live in appalling circumstances. Haydn too was "cancelled" by the same for the same reasons, but in comparison with Mozart, he could survive because 1) he didn't have family, 2) he got a wealthy lay patron who dared to confront the rest of the elite in supporting him, 3) when this patron died, a friend organised for him a stay in England, which put him back afloat.
When Mozart had to move often, a letter addressed to "Mozart, Wien" would always get to him. When he died, while Joseph II's policy on burials was still in force, there was such unrest after Mozart's burial that the new Emperor had to grant a Funeral Mass, and to mend his late brother's policy. He was popular yet poor.
A parallel can be drawn with some Figure Skaters treated unfairly by ISU or their Federation, and who are popular even when robbed of deserved medals, while those showered with undeserved scores and medals fail to attract a public, and we are speaking of today. The difference is that nowadays, these skaters can find a way or living, or even to finance great Figure Skating projects, because the powers-that-be of Figure Skating have little power beyond scoring, medals, silencing newspapers on what's going on, and some sponsoring companies, which prevents them from completely "cancelling" some of the most talented skaters.

 

[DizzyFrenchie]

Having watched only extracts of One Piece on Ice (which I was surprised to like but which may have been the best moments among an overall boring production, I don't know), I'm sorry for having misunderstood your meaning, I cannot have an accurate opinion of the whole show.

 

[Anna K.]

Having watched only extracts of One Piece on Ice (which I was surprised to like but which may have been the best moments among an overall boring production, I don't know), I'm sorry for having misunderstood your meaning, I cannot have an accurate opinion of the whole show.

Thanks for about my points, I appreciate.
We all have different backgrounds and different expectations when we watch whatever it may be and based on this, your impression is just as legit and worthy as mine. It was interesting to get feedback from you. In fact, I'd love to get more. Would you mind if I ask you a few questions about OPOI?
Which extracts did you like and why? (Can you add the links? )
Did these extracts make you wish to watch the whole show and why yes/no?
Did these extracts make you wish to read the manga/watch the film/learn more about Onepieceverse and why yes/no?

 

[Anna K.]

You make very good points, and to a certain extent that's what they've been doing for some time with various shows and/or other related content like documentaries, talk events and BTS material – trying to monetise as much content as possible via paid streaming or other paid services like fan club or YouTube memberships and generate as much revenue from the existing fanbase as they can.

The pr, on the other hand, mostly happens via classic channels like terrestrial tv/radio and magazines combined with social media to maximise their reach and encourage potential new customers to buy tickets – be it for the actual shows or their subsequent cinema screenings. So in a way it is a mixed strategy, which I assume is working for them – otherwise they probably wouldn't continue with it. (I also think that one of the reasons Daisuke is a regular on PokaPoka on terrestrial Fuji TV is precisely to expand his reach and publicity for his shows.)

However, I agree that getting the actual product out there and share it with as wide an audience as possible via easily accessible channels would be even more ideal and effective to increase the fanbase/viewership…





This 100%. If producers try to cater to mainstream tastes, it should be easier to get a foot in the door. However, as with all artistic genres, it's a balancing act to create something artistically meaningful/innovative that also appeals to mass taste. I'm aware that it's possible, but imo (and of course this is entirely subjective) this is less and less the case (for example, look at what kind of music is most popular today, or what kind of movies make the most revenue, and tell me that these represent the pinnacle of artistic expression and innovation). I can only speak for myself, but in many cases I enjoy niche content rather than what the masses seem to prefer, be it in terms of music, movies or shows and I have come to accept that I need to seek a lot of that content out by myself while jumping through hoops, because its distribution via mainstream channels is fairly limited. (Of course, one can wonder if people tend to like what they are fed over and over again, or if it's the other way round – is certain content shown more often on mainstream channels because the majority of people likes it?)

You know, from my experience... from times when I had work related to the industry and from the industry people I've met, and from my decades-long narrations... Even the most seasoned show business veterans can't predict the success with the public with 100% certainty, let alone to manipulate public tastes. People's tastes are far more complex and unpredictable than they seem. People tend to search for entertainment when they are tired of something or they want to compensate something psychologically or culturally (true in my case). When people get tired from complicated or dramatic content, they want something absolutely silly. When they get tired from silly entertainment, they search for dramatic or complex content. When do such longings start? When does "beloved and traditional" become "old and boring"? How do these feelings accrue? When do they become a mass phenomenon? Good questions indeed. Everything can become a mass phenomenon and everything can fall flat; it's only a question when and in what context. It's more important to keep an ear to the ground so to say than stupidly spend billions promoting something dated or with no potential. This is a risky business. Billions are no big deal here; one day you have them and the other day you are bankrupt.

Anyway, for the trade people, the artists, who know only one trade and can't change their investment (because this has been the investment in the lifelong learning of their trade), this can be very bad news. If the wider public is not in the mood for their art, it just isn't. That's why it is very important, very helpful, for artists to find their niche and have this niche behind them. Then "going wide" can be like a lottery ticket bought for fun: good if it brings something but no problem if it doesn't. Japanese figure skaters are in a good position in this sense: their trade has a good sport reputation in the eyes general public, a well-established connection with media, and an active fandom that's ready to attend their shows no matter what. This is a good foothold too that allows to apply for new investments, and to develop their art. I think we should keep an eye on what their next showbiz lottery tickets will bring

 

[DizzyFrenchie]

Thanks for about my points, I appreciate.
We all have different backgrounds and different expectations when we watch whatever it may be and based on this, your impression is just as legit and worthy as mine. It was interesting to get feedback from you. In fact, I'd love to get more. Would you mind if I ask you a few questions about OPOI?
Which extracts did you like and why? (Can you add the links? )
Did these extracts make you wish to watch the whole show and why yes/no?
Did these extracts make you wish to read the manga/watch the film/learn more about Onepieceverse and why yes/no?

Thank you,
I'm sorry, I can't bring the links, and to be honest I don't remember enough the few extracts I have seen, to tell more than, one of them was showing a battle (precisely) and at least one had a convincing Kazuki Tomono as a villain. Although, before that, I hadn't considered watching the show because I was... perplexed to see one tall, smiling character cast with a short, not-smiling-in-public skater instead of his training mate (and OPOI cast) who's tall and always smiling; I considered a little bit watching the show, but renounced because I didn't know the story of One Piece, and furthermore, having had a very good occasion of reading the first dozen + of One Piece and Naruto with French translation, I had declined out of sheer laziness because it wasn't "my type of manga", I felt guilty for it.
I do have a problem with Yuzuru Hanyu's RE_PRAY because I don't know, or so little, the video games most programs are about, but I do feel the help of many fans in understanding the story, although some interpretations and explanations sometimes seem to me a bit incoherent. With Echoes of Life we already have a good deal of the story, and hopefully the English version of the story will come soon.

 

[Anna K.]

I'm sorry, I can't bring the links, and to be honest I don't remember enough the few extracts I have seen, to tell more than, one of them was showing a battle (precisely) and at least one had a convincing Kazuki Tomono as a villain. Although, before that, I hadn't considered watching the show because I was... perplexed to see one tall, smiling character cast with a short, not-smiling-in-public skater instead of his training mate (and OPOI cast) who's tall and always smiling; I considered a little bit watching the show, but renounced because I didn't know the story of One Piece, and furthermore, having had a very good occasion of reading the first dozen + of One Piece and Naruto with French translation, I had declined out of sheer laziness because it wasn't "my type of manga",

So you had little previous knowledge. But what's your guess? What's the plot of the story adopted for OPOI?
Since you don't have your links on hand, I'll add one here. Could you give your feedback to this excerpt?

To be honest, it would be a bit strange if you'd considered that this is your type of manga because One Piece, as well as Naruto, is a "shounen manga", an editorial category of Japanese comics targeting an audience of 9 to 18 years old boys Anyway, it is interesting what you as an unaware figure skating fan think such story might be.
And what is your type of manga by the way?

 

[Anna K.]

In the context of the above post, please, everybody else, if you are a skating fan unfamiliar with this comic series, feel free to join in with your feedback and guesses !

The shounen genre demographics that I posted above is as far from regular demographics of figure skating audience as it could possibly be. Two so demographically different fandoms meeting on a common ground, this is incredibly interesting. Do you have any takeaways?
Then, I'll give mine from the perspective of... let's not say "a One Piece fan", let's say "a One Piece follower"

 

[DizzyFrenchie]

So you had little previous knowledge. But what's your guess? What's the plot of the story adopted for OPOI?
Since you don't have your links on hand, I'll add one here. Could you give your feedback to this excerpt?

To be honest, it would be a bit strange if you'd considered that this is your type of manga because One Piece, as well as Naruto, is a "shounen manga", an editorial category of Japanese comics targeting an audience of 9 to 18 years old boys Anyway, it is interesting what you as an unaware figure skating fan think such story might be.
And what is your type of manga by the way?

Thank you for your kindness! I think that it looks convincing for an illustration of "memories" in a manga, that the kids were really skating well, and that one couldn't see much of the grown-ups beautiful skating but it wasn't the object of the scene?
Well, precisely, I was much more into Shounen than Shojo (except The Rose of Versailles), but I had really disliked Dragon Ball, and at first sight Naruto and One Piece felt a bit the same. So, maybe I'm not the sort of person whose opinion may interest you! And I still love youth literature, including comics and manga. I was so touched by Yuzuru Hanyu's words and choice of Meteor with T.R. Revolution in Fantasy on Ice last year, although I didn't even know Gundam Seed (which anime started when he was 7-8, the generational difference does see there).
Still about Yuzuru Hanyu, both video game fans and his own fans met at RE_PRAY (including "hermit" Toby Fox who went all the way from USA), until there few were fans of both, and the reports were very positive!

 

[Magill]

And I still love youth literature, including comics and manga. I was so touched by Yuzuru Hanyu's words and choice of Meteor with T.R. Revolution in Fantasy on Ice last year, although I didn't even know Gundam Seed (which anime started when he was 7-8, the generational difference does see there).
Still about Yuzuru Hanyu, both video game fans and his own fans met at RE_PRAY (including "hermit" Toby Fox who went all the way from USA), until there few were fans of both, and the reports were very positive!

Similar thing is happening now with Yuzu incorporating into Echoes and skating to some of the original music from Ghost in the Shell and Steins;Gate or Persona, and thus attracting their fans attention for the show. I still remember how moved I was to see him skating to One Summer's Day from the Spirited Away, which I - like so many others - love so much. So I can easily relate to this. OTOH, it also works the other way round, some of his fans get interested and move on to watch the original work which they would never reach to otherwise.
It is a great thing when fandoms find common ground and merge but I also appreciate this is not just a marketing move but stems from true and authentic love for the original material. I guess, it always works better this way, fans can tell a fellow fan
Still, Yuzu is using this music and relates to the stories somehow in his programs, but his shows are not staging of the original scripts, or even a variation of them, on the ice, but they are completely new stories. It is interesting if it works in a similar way with other shows which seek to stage the source stories, when the original target audience is so different? Or, is it really? So many of us keep a soft spot for stories whose prime target are in fact kids or teens so who knows... If a story is good enough and it is presented well, it might work for various audiences...

 

[Anna K.]

Well, precisely, I was much more into Shounen than Shojo (except The Rose of Versailles), but I had really disliked Dragon Ball, and at first sight Naruto and One Piece felt a bit the same. So, maybe I'm not the sort of person whose opinion may interest you!

Depending on why you disliked Dragon Ball, we might even have a common ground here

Dragon Ball has its strong points and it massively influenced further development of the genre but it also has its shortcomings. I've even got an impression that some later takes on the genre had an ambition to rewrite Dragon Ball and get everything right this time

Still about Yuzuru Hanyu, both video game fans and his own fans met at RE_PRAY (including "hermit" Toby Fox who went all the way from USA), until there few were fans of both, and the reports were very positive!

I'm afraid that the collision course between the international fandom of OP and international fandom of FS did not go that well (in Japan, I suspect that there is quite a number of people who are fans of both). Rather, I noticed FS fans saying "it's for One Piece fans" and OP fans saying "it's for figure skating fans". Like, nobody wanted to adopt it for real. But there was no open negativity from either side, which alone is good enough.

I think that it [the video] looks convincing for an illustration of "memories" in a manga, that the kids were really skating well, and that one couldn't see much of the grown-ups beautiful skating but it wasn't the object of the scene?

But it did not contain a hook for your imagination, did it? When you read a random page of a book or see an excerpt from a film, it either captivates you and makes you to wish more or it doesn't. I suspect that this excerpt (and the whole show, actually) is a clear "it doesn't" case but I can't know for sure because I knew the material earlier. So, do I understand you right? It doesn't?

 

[Wynter]

Since you don't have your links on hand, I'll add one here. Could you give your feedback to this excerpt?

Production quality wise, it is at the level of high school drama club. It seems like they spend more budget on the marketing and not on the production.

In the context of the above post, please, everybody else, if you are a skating fan unfamiliar with this comic series, feel free to join in with your feedback and guesses !

The shounen genre demographics that I posted above is as far from regular demographics of figure skating audience as it could possibly be. Two so demographically different fandoms meeting on a common ground, this is incredibly interesting. Do you have any takeaways?
Then, I'll give mine from the perspective of... let's not say "a One Piece fan", let's say "a One Piece follower"

I'm mostly a Shoujo and Josei reader, but I'd also share my thoughts.

Personally, I think OPOI is a fail because they're 'moving' the acts on the manga (or anime) directly to the ice with minimum techs and limited acting skills (naturally, since these are skaters and not actors). That's why neither fan groups (the OP followers and skating fans) are satisfied with the result.

Manga fans, especially, are so difficult to please. They have a certain image in mind when reading, and it sets an expectation on the other medium. Ice show is one, but it also happens a lot in manga-based animes. OTOH, for skating fans there might be too little skating for their taste?

Yuzu (IMHO) has a more succesful approach on this adaptation. His programs are skating programs, influenced by elements from the game/anime he uses. Most of the praises I saw from the fans of the original works (Undertale, Final Fantasy, Persona, Steinsgate) are saying that Yuzu is obviously a fan of the works and has much respect to the original works. But then, his Ice Story and OPOI fell under different categories. I wonder if OPOI will have more success if they use PIW's approach, when they are making individual programs inspired by the one theme: One Piece.

 

[KiraraChin]

I'm afraid that the collision course between the international fandom of OP and international fandom of FS did not go that well (in Japan, I suspect that there is quite a number of people who are fans of both). Rather, I noticed FS fans saying "it's for One Piece fans" and OP fans saying "it's for figure skating fans". Like, nobody wanted to adopt it for real.

Can I just interject here to say that, even if this is true at international level, the situation is a lot more nuanced in Japan, especially at character level.

There is absolutely no doubt that Koshiro Shimada's popularity exploded after he played Sanji, and the Sanji fandom (which is not exactly small) not only adopted him, but many started following FS because of him. Something similar happened to Kazuki Tomono, but in the opposite direction: his character (Koza), who is fairly minor in the OP universe, got a lot of attention and new fans because he was the one playing it - the producers said they expanded his participation in the finale in the second year because of this. I even saw some funny situations in the second year, such as 'came to see the rumoured Sanji, but fell for Koza' It's not surprising that these two skaters were subsequently invited to perform in Hyoen, and consolidated their reputation as 'storytellers' on the ice. Hell, even I paid for the stream in the second year because they increased Kazuki's participation lol

What I fell personally is that the skaters in general did a good job and it was pretty cool to see the character's mannerisms, which are not exactly realistic, translated on the ice. I also fell that there was a 'kabuki-esque' quality that probably doesn't translate well internationally. So while I'm not completely disagreeing that they could have done more with OPOI, I also think it was not all doom and gloom.

 

[Anna K.]

Production quality wise, it is at the level of high school drama club. It seems like they spend more budget on the marketing and not on the production.[...] OPOI is a fail because they're 'moving' the acts on the manga (or anime) directly to the ice with minimum techs and limited acting skills (naturally, since these are skaters and not actors).

Sadly, yes.
For a high school drama club or for an amateur cosplay defile it would have been "cheers, good job" and everybody having fun because there is nothing more to expect. But for a professional show, it was below par.

Manga fans, especially, are so difficult to please. They have a certain image in mind when reading, and it sets an expectation on the other medium. Ice show is one, but it also happens a lot in manga-based animes. OTOH, for skating fans there might be too little skating for their taste? Yuzu (IMHO) has a more succesful approach on this adaptation. His programs are skating programs, influenced by elements from the game/anime he uses. Most of the praises I saw from the fans of the original works (Undertale, Final Fantasy, Persona, Steinsgate) are saying that Yuzu is obviously a fan of the works and has much respect to the original works. But then, his Ice Story and OPOI fell under different categories.

I agree that the excerpts made an impression that there was nothing interesting to see from pure skating perspective. But I didn't watch the full show, so I'd also agree on putting there a question mark
The hard-to-please manga fans actually paid some appreciation to OPOI - at least the fans of Sanji character (as it was noted above by @KiraraChin ) However, here is a difference from Yuzuru's case. Yuzuru meant to show a tribute. Which he did in a best way possible for him and was recognized for doing so. OPOI on its part meant to adapt to ice a story. Which they ended up doing very far from the best way possible. And it means that, as a manga fan, I am still not pleased

I wonder if OPOI will have more success if they use PIW's approach, when they are making individual programs inspired by the one theme: One Piece.

I don't like variety shows so I hope they won't do it
However, if this would be an alternative to a bad adaptation of an already bad adaptation of a story (which was Desert Princess the movie), then I vote "yes".

Can I just interject here to say that, even if this is true at international level, the situation is a lot more nuanced in Japan, especially at character level.

Yes, please, do interject! We urgently need someone who has actually seen the show!

There is absolutely no doubt that Koshiro Shimada's popularity exploded after he played Sanji, and the Sanji fandom (which is not exactly small) not only adopted him, but many started following FS because of him. Something similar happened to Kazuki Tomono, but in the opposite direction: his character (Koza), who is fairly minor in the OP universe, got a lot of attention and new fans because he was the one playing it - the producers said they expanded his participation in the finale in the second year because of this. I even saw some funny situations in the second year, such as 'came to see the rumoured Sanji, but fell for Koza' It's not surprising that these two skaters were subsequently invited to perform in Hyoen, and consolidated their reputation as 'storytellers' on the ice. Hell, even I paid for the stream in the second year because they increased Kazuki's participation lol

This is really good news We have not heard about mutually beneficial interference between show skating and competitive skating for... Shall I say, for decades? Even if it's limited to Japan, I can't view it otherwise than the development to the right direction.

What I felt personally is that the skaters in general did a good job and it was pretty cool to see the character's mannerisms, which are not exactly realistic, translated on the ice.

Exactly!
One of the reasons why manga translates well to anime but not to live action (i.e. I can't swallow the Netflix series, at least not yet ) is that manga characters have those larger-than-life mannerisms and faster-than-life moves that are not exactly realistic. And guess what, these qualities translate to ice incredibly, unbelievably well!
What a shame that OPOI fell flat in storytelling and production. It could have been sensational.

I also felt that there was a 'kabuki-esque' quality that probably doesn't translate well internationally.

From my experience, Kabuki theater needs no translation. It's rather how you feel about it. If you like it, you just like it. It may be a matter of taste though. For me, Kabuki is definitely my cup of tea and so is One Piece because I can see the influence of Kabuki imagery, or rather the influence of classical Japanese drawings of Kabuki characters, in Eiichiro Oda's drawing style. I can especially feel it in how the villains are depicted. But other figure skating fans might prefer more romanticized idea of beautiful, I don't know (maybe we should discuss it in Hyoen 2017 thread?... )

So while I'm not completely disagreeing that they could have done more with OPOI, I also think it was not all doom and gloom.

Be it OPOI or something else, I'm praying for more manga on ice
I believe that both skating world and the world of popular culture needs it. Just... in better production quality next time

 

[DizzyFrenchie]

Depending on why you disliked Dragon Ball, we might even have a common ground here

Dragon Ball has its strong points and it massively influenced further development of the genre but it also has its shortcomings. I've even got an impression that some later takes on the genre had an ambition to rewrite Dragon Ball and get everything right this time


I'm afraid that the collision course between the international fandom of OP and international fandom of FS did not go that well (in Japan, I suspect that there is quite a number of people who are fans of both). Rather, I noticed FS fans saying "it's for One Piece fans" and OP fans saying "it's for figure skating fans". Like, nobody wanted to adopt it for real. But there was no open negativity from either side, which alone is good enough.


But it did not contain a hook for your imagination, did it? When you read a random page of a book or see an excerpt from a film, it either captivates you and makes you to wish more or it doesn't. I suspect that this excerpt (and the whole show, actually) is a clear "it doesn't" case but I can't know for sure because I knew the material earlier. So, do I understand you right? It doesn't?

I must warn that I only saw a few episodes of the anime, never the manga itself, and not the first episode (to make things worse, it might have been Dragon Ball Z instead of Dragon Ball? Both were broadcast about the same years in France) and didn't like the caricatural pictures and gestures (which Naruto and One Piece avoided better), the repetitiveness and... the misogyny...

The extract did take my imagination but only as a Figure Skating fan. For instance, it was much more evocative than my (very remote) memories of Holiday on Ice, but I don't think that someone who's not used to watch and appreciate Figure Skating may see much in it.
I would follow Wynter's words of high school drama club, rather about the decor and lighting, unless they were just a moment in the production; the choreography, although simple, may reflect simple feelings? And the costumes and wigs looked fit for a manga adaptation.
I don't really know if evocation (as with Yuzuru Hanyu's shows) is necessarily better than adaptation, or than individual programs based on the theme, because what we have to compare isn't really comparable in other matters.
It's very interesting to consider that ice choreography is more likely to evoke better mangas' mannerisms than live action! I've rarely liked live action adaprations of cartoons, mangas or animes.

 

[TallyT]

In the context of the above post, please, everybody else, if you are a skating fan unfamiliar with this comic series, feel free to join in with your feedback and guesses !

Can I chime in? (PLease excuse typos I have a miseryguts of a summer cold)

Production quality wise, it is at the level of high school drama club. It seems like they spend more budget on the marketing and not on the production.

From the clip offered abov and a couple of others suggested by youtube, it does seem that that was the case. The set was very static and minimal, low budget, and the lighting did nothing to enhanceit or the performers, who were doing their best, ended up looking rather small and isolated on the over-bright-lighted ice.

 

[KiraraChin]

This is really good news We have not heard about mutually beneficial interference between show skating and competitive skating for... Shall I say, for decades? Even if it's limited to Japan, I can't view it otherwise than the development to the right direction.

I know I'm biased, but I think Kazuki Tomono is threading a pretty interesting path between competitive and show skating. For example, last year after he was kicked out of the national team, I really thought he would disappeared for a while, as usually only the most successful athletes get invitations for shows right?

But instead, he got invited to all sorts of shows (including ones just reserved for members of the Worlds team, such as SOI), used them to enhance his popularity, then monetised it through fan events and all sorts of merch during the summer (including the launch of TOMONO curry), and ultimately landed himself an affiliation contract.

It's a lot of work and some might say not everyone can do this, but he is basically embodying the concept of 'half competitor, half pro' that Shoma spoke about before his retirement, and his performance/reputation in shows are a huge part of why he can make without having won big medals.

One of the reasons why manga translates well to anime but not to live action (i.e. I can't swallow the Netflix series, at least not yet )

Interestingly, I saw the big international Sanji accounts on Twitter talking about Koshiro Shimada as *the* personification of Sanji, and better than the guy they chose for the Netflix live action.

From my experience, Kabuki theater needs no translation. It's rather how you feel about it. If you like it, you just like it. It may be a matter of taste though. For me, Kabuki is definitely my cup of tea and so is One Piece because I can see the influence of Kabuki imagery, or rather the influence of classical Japanese drawings of Kabuki characters, in Eiichiro Oda's drawing style. I can especially feel it in how the villains are depicted. But other figure skating fans might prefer more romanticized idea of beautiful, I don't know (maybe we should discuss it in Hyoen 2017 thread?... )

Completely agree about kabuki's influence in Oda's work, and I can see where the production tried to emulate these influences with the stationary scenery, dramatic monologues and battles based on stylised movements. Problem is, the skaters are not kabuki actors, they are trained in the 'romanticized idea of beautiful' as you said, so the result was not here, nor there...

 

[Anna K.]

I must warn that I only saw a few episodes of the anime, never the manga itself, and not the first episode (to make things worse, it might have been Dragon Ball Z instead of Dragon Ball? Both were broadcast about the same years in France) and didn't like the caricatural pictures and gestures (which Naruto and One Piece avoided better), the repetitiveness and... the misogyny...

If Goku is a cherub-like baby, it's Dragon Ball. If Goku is a fully-grown young man with a wife and child, it's Dragon Ball Z
It's not a Dragon Ball discussion, so I'll leave it here. I will only add that I can totally see your point

The One Piece world is in all aspects much more balanced than that of Dragon Ball. But, if you have had a bad experience and are watching out for red flags... I can see why you dropped it.

The extract did take my imagination but only as a Figure Skating fan. For instance, it was much more evocative than my (very remote) memories of Holiday on Ice

I would follow Wynter's words of high school drama club, rather about the decor and lighting, unless they were just a moment in the production; the choreography, although simple, may reflect simple feelings? And the costumes and wigs looked fit for a manga adaptation.

I always said that the cosplay part was good Although it wasn't for all characters. I'm so angry that they didn't give Rinka the iconic Chopper's "toy form" costume to wear
"Simple feelings" part was totally misleading though. Vivi and Koza (the characters featured in the clip) actually have a complex perplexed-with-politics-and-family-matters-love-and-hate relationship in the story.

I don't really know if evocation (as with Yuzuru Hanyu's shows) is necessarily better than adaptation, or than individual programs based on the theme, because what we have to compare isn't really comparable in other matters.

These are two different genres, no more, no less. Why did we even start comparing?

It's very interesting to consider that ice choreography is more likely to evoke better mangas' mannerisms than live action! I've rarely liked live action adaprations of cartoons, mangas or animes.

Oh, yes!
If you are familiar with Sailor Moon, there is a famous image of Bunny rushing to school in a hurry with a breakfast toast still in her mouth. In live action, it would look... well, awkward. But I can absolutely see her dashing across the ice with a toast in her mouth!