Japanese Nationals 2005
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I saw the the SPs of GPF yesterday on the telly and I could really see a difference between the presentation (PCS) of Oda and Takahashi. I think the latter is a much more mature skater. Oda, though proficient and cute, skates like a junior IMHO. I think the right man is going to rep Japan at the Olys. Re: Mao, I think she is also very proficient and has been taught the basics really well but I now agree with Irina's comments to some extent (tho I think Mao did beat her). Mao is a delightful performer but again IMHO skates like a junior presentation-wise. Don't get me wrong, I like her a lot, and she has done very well on the senior circuit thus far but I am not blown away by her. Give me a jumpless Shiz or Fumie any day.
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
http://www.skatingjapan.jp/National/2005-2006/Figure/national/E/data0290.htm
Does the above work? I'm not computer inclined.
It seems the overall results are very close for the top 4. Ando not near them.
On another note, while reading the posts, I noticed many posters are quite pleased that Mao didn't win.
Joe
Does the above work? I'm not computer inclined.
It seems the overall results are very close for the top 4. Ando not near them.
On another note, while reading the posts, I noticed many posters are quite pleased that Mao didn't win.
Joe
I can't get over how exciting Japan Nationals were...as everyone has said, the depth of the ladies field is so exciting. I'm thrilled Fumie won...but not happy that Mao didn't win....just happy for Fumie. I can't wait to see her two triple axle program...I don't agree with someone who said she can only jump, but I do agree that she sure CAN jump, and I can't wait to see it!! I love Shizzle and am glad she did well...and I really can't wait to see her at Olympics! I'm also happy for Onda...I wonder if this will inspire her to continue improving (she looked so lost during the GP's, I almost thought she may announce retirment).
About the men...I missed the controvesy on Oda and Takahashi, and haven't downloaded vids yet...I'll just say I love them both so much, and am sorry their victories had to be embroiled in such a painful experience for both of them. It truly is too bad that Japan has only one berth, and this puts so much pressure on them for next year. Will this burden to increase berths fall on Oda's shoulders (i.e., since he's going to World's)?
About the men...I missed the controvesy on Oda and Takahashi, and haven't downloaded vids yet...I'll just say I love them both so much, and am sorry their victories had to be embroiled in such a painful experience for both of them. It truly is too bad that Japan has only one berth, and this puts so much pressure on them for next year. Will this burden to increase berths fall on Oda's shoulders (i.e., since he's going to World's)?
- Joined
- Dec 18, 2003
Mathman said:Can someone please post the judges scores from the pdf files for the first few skaters in the ladies long program? My computer doesn't have the right fonts to display it.
Hi MM. I'm back in the office now. Get in touch if you would like me to fax any of the score sheets.
Emma, it really was an exciting comp. ITA that being happy that Fumie won does NOT equal being happy that Mao didn't win, at least not for me either. It was exciting just to follow these ladies through the weekend (and catch some vids!!) since overall, they all skated so well.
CDMM, It looks like the Japan Fed split things up a bit between Oly and World teams. I too read somewhere that Oda will go to World's, and also Nakano, and maybe Onda? I can't remember the exact details of the World team - maybe someone else has this info from a news link or something.
Mathman, I'm getting ready to play "scoresheet trivia" for a little while.
Will post any factoids I find interesting once I've taken a look.Later..
DG
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
Thanks for the link, Joe. Yes, that one works for me. But it doesn't have the element by element breakdown. Miki must have missed some of her jumps to be so low.Joesitz said:
About Mao, I kind of hoped she would win just to stir up more interest in the whole age-eligibility issue.
But Fumie has my heart!
MM
Doggygirl, thanks, I'll PM you.
Here in San Diego, the Union-Tribune, which has given barely more than a blurb to any of the GP competitions all season, actually had a 9-paragraph article this morning about the Japanese nats, complete with fairly big headline ("Japan's Suguri wins title -- but teen Asada makes history"), and even ran the top 5 on the Scores page. So apparently the Japanese Nats have become one of the hottest competitons of the year (which it is).... Well, that and the fact that the day after Christmas is a slow news day, even in the Sports page, so they needed something to fill space.... 
I'm thrilled that Fumie won; I was afraid she might be losing ground and might not make the team. I'm a little mystified, tho, at the decision to place Ando on the Oly team over Nakano -- Nakano has had a better season, and even placed ahead of Ando at this competition, so what's the deal?? So Ando won the Nats twice.... SO???? This kind of reminds me of several seasons ago when the Russians left Soldatova off the World team in favor of Volchkova despite the fact that Soldatova had had the better season and had beaten Volchkova head to head a couple times (this is what led to Soldatova going off to skate for Belarus).
As to the scoring thing in Men's -- this is the kind of thing that makes me really nervous about COP. I am hoping that something like this does not happen in Torino, especially if a medal is involved.
I'm thrilled that Fumie won; I was afraid she might be losing ground and might not make the team. I'm a little mystified, tho, at the decision to place Ando on the Oly team over Nakano -- Nakano has had a better season, and even placed ahead of Ando at this competition, so what's the deal?? So Ando won the Nats twice.... SO???? This kind of reminds me of several seasons ago when the Russians left Soldatova off the World team in favor of Volchkova despite the fact that Soldatova had had the better season and had beaten Volchkova head to head a couple times (this is what led to Soldatova going off to skate for Belarus).
As to the scoring thing in Men's -- this is the kind of thing that makes me really nervous about COP. I am hoping that something like this does not happen in Torino, especially if a medal is involved.
- Joined
- Dec 18, 2003
Score Sheet Trivia...
Red Dog, in terms of the scores, especially for Non-Jump element identification, GOE and PCS, keep in mind that it's an all Japanese judge / technical panel judging all Japanese skaters. The same will be true (I think) for all the individual Nationals. So it would not surprise me if there seems to be a bit of "score inflation" at any National events v. International events.
Mean time....as a score sheet junkie I've done some analysis on the top 6 ladies LP's from Japan Nats. Is that safe territory for the Edge in terms of spoilers or not? (I'm pretty sure there are NOT plans to televise this event in the US, but there are GSer's here from other countries as well). Let me know.
Thanks,
DG
Red Dog, in terms of the scores, especially for Non-Jump element identification, GOE and PCS, keep in mind that it's an all Japanese judge / technical panel judging all Japanese skaters. The same will be true (I think) for all the individual Nationals. So it would not surprise me if there seems to be a bit of "score inflation" at any National events v. International events.
Mean time....as a score sheet junkie I've done some analysis on the top 6 ladies LP's from Japan Nats. Is that safe territory for the Edge in terms of spoilers or not? (I'm pretty sure there are NOT plans to televise this event in the US, but there are GSer's here from other countries as well). Let me know.
Thanks,
DG
- Joined
- Dec 18, 2003
JonnyCoop said:Here in San Diego, the Union-Tribune, which has given barely more than a blurb to any of the GP competitions all season, actually had a 9-paragraph article this morning about the Japanese nats, complete with fairly big headline ("Japan's Suguri wins title -- but teen Asada makes history"), and even ran the top 5 on the Scores page. So apparently the Japanese Nats have become one of the hottest competitons of the year (which it is).... Well, that and the fact that the day after Christmas is a slow news day, even in the Sports page, so they needed something to fill space....
I'm thrilled that Fumie won; I was afraid she might be losing ground and might not make the team. I'm a little mystified, tho, at the decision to place Ando on the Oly team over Nakano -- Nakano has had a better season, and even placed ahead of Ando at this competition, so what's the deal?? So Ando won the Nats twice.... SO???? This kind of reminds me of several seasons ago when the Russians left Soldatova off the World team in favor of Volchkova despite the fact that Soldatova had had the better season and had beaten Volchkova head to head a couple times (this is what led to Soldatova going off to skate for Belarus).
As to the scoring thing in Men's -- this is the kind of thing that makes me really nervous about COP. I am hoping that something like this does not happen in Torino, especially if a medal is involved.
Interesting about the news reports in the San Diego papers. Good for FS!!
If I understand what I've read correctly, the (IMO) disaster that happened in the men's scoring would not happen at the Oly's, assuming Italy will be using the actual ISU computer system for the event. Catching a Zayak violation within the software IMO, is a big weakness in the software program Japan meant to mirror the ISU program. Zayak violations aren't related to COP after all..... Very sad none the less.
While I would personally prefer to watch Ando skate that Nakaro (personal enjoyment only) I suspect Big Business might be at play here. I'm sure the Ladies FS event for the Oly's is a Big Deal in Japan, just like it usually is in the states. I think lots of endorsement deals are already done, and probably lots of film is already "in the can" which may not include much of Nakano, since I think her very successful season was not predicted. I HATE even thinking that Big Business comes into play with these sporting decisions, (so not fair to the athletes!) but I suspect it might be an unfortunate reality. OR....maybe I'm totally wrong on this. (hope so)
DG
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
If you go to that site, and go to bottom of page, you can click on previous and voila. I wouldn't know how to copy and paste from the Adobe Reader.Mathman said:Thanks for the link, Joe. Yes, that one works for me. But it doesn't have the element by element breakdown. Miki must have missed some of her jumps to be so low.
About Mao, I kind of hoped she would win just to stir up more interest in the whole age-eligibility issue.
But Fumie has my heart!
MM
Doggygirl, thanks, I'll PM you.
Joe
Something kind of strange about Mao....
While I think it's very clever that people have dubbed her "Chairman Mao," I wonder if "Mao" has any significance in the Japanese language. If not, it is a little odd that Japanese parents would name a Japanese baby after a Chinese communist leader. It would be like an American naming their baby Fidel, or in this case Hugo Chavez, considering the history of animosity between China and Japan. Does anybody know if "Mao" has any meaning in Japanese?
While I think it's very clever that people have dubbed her "Chairman Mao," I wonder if "Mao" has any significance in the Japanese language. If not, it is a little odd that Japanese parents would name a Japanese baby after a Chinese communist leader. It would be like an American naming their baby Fidel, or in this case Hugo Chavez, considering the history of animosity between China and Japan. Does anybody know if "Mao" has any meaning in Japanese?
The Japan Fed's decision, etc
Hello, I'm new here (as a poster), though I've been lurking for quite a while. I thought I'd post what I'd gathered from the Japanese media regarding the Oly team decision, as people seem to be wondering...
This time, the selection process for Japan's figure skating Oly team was based on the "point system," where the results of each of the key competitions of the last two seasons were converted into points (regarding the last season's competitions, the best result weighed by 0.7 was counted). Specifically, the 1st place of those competitions under consideration gets 600, the 2nd 550, the 3rd 500, etc (decreases by 50), but those who made it to the GP final were rewarded more (the 1st place gets 800, so, to just make it there gives you 550 -- so, now, you see what pressure Shizza and Fumie felt when they didn't make it to the GP final, because without any points the GP final would have given them, they would have to at least medal in the Japanese Nat).
And the basic rule was to choose the top three of the total points, and (because Mao is not Oly-eligible) Fumie, Miki, and Shizza make it, at the end of the day.
So, yes, this system heavily favors those who had a good season last year, like Miki (who won the Japan Nat), and those who didn't, like Nakano, were at a quite disadvantage to begin with. Sounds like the Japan Fed had some internal discussion about the merit of selecting Miki, too. Apparently, some Fed guys disagreed about Miki making the team, and I too think it was reasonable to question her performance this season--Nakano has been skating much better than she. But in the end, it ended up with sort of like "the rule is the rule" decision.
But as DG says,
That's true.
4cc:
Men: Oda, Honda, Nakaba (sp?)
Ladies: Nakano, Onda, Mai Asada
World:
Men: Oda
Ladies: Fumie, Shizza, Nakano
Although when romanized both are "Mao," Chairman Mao's "Mao" and Mao Asada's "Mao" are spelled totally differently in "Kanji" (Chinese characters). Mao Asada's name probably means something like "truth, honesty, centered" (I think).
Hello, I'm new here (as a poster), though I've been lurking for quite a while. I thought I'd post what I'd gathered from the Japanese media regarding the Oly team decision, as people seem to be wondering...
This time, the selection process for Japan's figure skating Oly team was based on the "point system," where the results of each of the key competitions of the last two seasons were converted into points (regarding the last season's competitions, the best result weighed by 0.7 was counted). Specifically, the 1st place of those competitions under consideration gets 600, the 2nd 550, the 3rd 500, etc (decreases by 50), but those who made it to the GP final were rewarded more (the 1st place gets 800, so, to just make it there gives you 550 -- so, now, you see what pressure Shizza and Fumie felt when they didn't make it to the GP final, because without any points the GP final would have given them, they would have to at least medal in the Japanese Nat).
And the basic rule was to choose the top three of the total points, and (because Mao is not Oly-eligible) Fumie, Miki, and Shizza make it, at the end of the day.
So, yes, this system heavily favors those who had a good season last year, like Miki (who won the Japan Nat), and those who didn't, like Nakano, were at a quite disadvantage to begin with. Sounds like the Japan Fed had some internal discussion about the merit of selecting Miki, too. Apparently, some Fed guys disagreed about Miki making the team, and I too think it was reasonable to question her performance this season--Nakano has been skating much better than she. But in the end, it ended up with sort of like "the rule is the rule" decision.
But as DG says,
That's true.
4cc:
Men: Oda, Honda, Nakaba (sp?)
Ladies: Nakano, Onda, Mai Asada
World:
Men: Oda
Ladies: Fumie, Shizza, Nakano
Although when romanized both are "Mao," Chairman Mao's "Mao" and Mao Asada's "Mao" are spelled totally differently in "Kanji" (Chinese characters). Mao Asada's name probably means something like "truth, honesty, centered" (I think).
- Joined
- Dec 18, 2003
Welcome to GoldenSkate Maruru!!
Glad you came out of "lurkdom." Youre perspective on the Japanese Nationals is very valuable and much appreciated.
First off, the Japanese Ladies field is SO deep!! I wonder if any other federation in modern history has had to deal with choosing an Oly team among so many top international skaters.
I can see the value of looking at the team selection across a couple of seasons. Consistency and Stability appear to matter more, with that approach, that "One Great Night." On the other hand, I can see how all of the top ladies have felt immense pressure leading up to this point.
But I can also imagine that even if it was "One Great Night" instead of an evaluation of 2 seasons, with that depth, the pressure would be immense either way.
Thanks for your perspective!!! And many congrats to the Japanese teams - Oly, World and 4CC.
DG
Glad you came out of "lurkdom." Youre perspective on the Japanese Nationals is very valuable and much appreciated.
First off, the Japanese Ladies field is SO deep!! I wonder if any other federation in modern history has had to deal with choosing an Oly team among so many top international skaters.
I can see the value of looking at the team selection across a couple of seasons. Consistency and Stability appear to matter more, with that approach, that "One Great Night." On the other hand, I can see how all of the top ladies have felt immense pressure leading up to this point.
But I can also imagine that even if it was "One Great Night" instead of an evaluation of 2 seasons, with that depth, the pressure would be immense either way.
Thanks for your perspective!!! And many congrats to the Japanese teams - Oly, World and 4CC.
DG
- Joined
- Jun 3, 2005
Oh okay, it makes more sense that Ando is on the team if they were collecting points from the past TWO seasons, because Nakano, I would imagine, had NO points from last season. Thanks for giving us that piece of info maururu!(sp?) Glad that Nakano gets to go to Worlds. I bet she'll do well there.
Welcome, Mararu!
That was all extremely interesting. Still, IMO it was a bit silly of a selection process; tho it does explain the Ando over Nakano decision, it would seem to me that it would occur to someone at the Japanese federation that with the amount of depth they have in the Ladies category, there was a pretty good shot that one of the "underlings" was going to catch fire; and why on earth would you send someone whose best results were the season before last over someone who's on a hot streak? I can just see the arguement at the "Who are we gonna send?" meeting. "But Ando's won the Nats twice" "Ando? I am SO sure, she is SO last season......" (That being said, watch her win the OGM and shut ME up, tho I don't really see that happening....). Either way, must be really nice to have such an unbelievable amount of amazing talent to choose from, and to be in this kind of situation.
Actually, it occurs to me as I write this; I am sure the Japanese have an eye on sweeping the Ladies podium (tho I don't see that happening either), and from that perspective, Ando would make more sense than Nakano, since Ando has Worlds experience, at least. Perhaps they felt Nakano wasn't ready yet. I just hope the federation and Japanese media learned from what they put Ito through in '92 and back-peddle the expectations a little bit. However, if they're anything like the American media, they won't.
re. Mao: I seem to remember a couple of seasons ago her sister MAI being the designated Next Big Thing. I know she's still skating, but the main reason I bring her up, is, are her and Mao twins?? (Mao/Mai)
That was all extremely interesting. Still, IMO it was a bit silly of a selection process; tho it does explain the Ando over Nakano decision, it would seem to me that it would occur to someone at the Japanese federation that with the amount of depth they have in the Ladies category, there was a pretty good shot that one of the "underlings" was going to catch fire; and why on earth would you send someone whose best results were the season before last over someone who's on a hot streak? I can just see the arguement at the "Who are we gonna send?" meeting. "But Ando's won the Nats twice" "Ando? I am SO sure, she is SO last season......"
(That being said, watch her win the OGM and shut ME up, tho I don't really see that happening....). Either way, must be really nice to have such an unbelievable amount of amazing talent to choose from, and to be in this kind of situation.Actually, it occurs to me as I write this; I am sure the Japanese have an eye on sweeping the Ladies podium (tho I don't see that happening either), and from that perspective, Ando would make more sense than Nakano, since Ando has Worlds experience, at least. Perhaps they felt Nakano wasn't ready yet. I just hope the federation and Japanese media learned from what they put Ito through in '92 and back-peddle the expectations a little bit. However, if they're anything like the American media, they won't.
re. Mao: I seem to remember a couple of seasons ago her sister MAI being the designated Next Big Thing. I know she's still skating, but the main reason I bring her up, is, are her and Mao twins?? (Mao/Mai)
