Jason Brown

[Mrs. P]

Oh Mrs. P - I almost got an ulcer watching that game. I don't care for Lebron James but did feel kind of sad that he had the performance he did with no one to help out particularly. Go Dubs! Hope Sunday night isn't a nailbiter.

Agree with El - Jason seems carefree now. i'm sure it was a very difficult decision for him to leave Kori and go out into the great unknown. However, the fact that he made such a move just tells me that he's very, very committed to his skating career and getting better and better.

Can't wait for the new season to start or at least a hint of what his LP is going to be.

Noskates, please talk to me in the NBA Finals thread some more, it's sad and lonely.
https://goldenskate.com/forum/showt...018-Cavs-vs-Warriors-IV&p=2107987#post2107987

Actually, I didn't care for LeBron, but over time I can't deny his GOAT status and amazing playing. He really slayed game 1. Also yet another reason we need Iggy back STAT. He's the best Warrior to defend LeBron. I expect game 2 will be a blowout, hopefully for the Dubs -- but I just don't see both teams bringing such a high-level of play after all the dramatics of game 1.

I'm glad to see happy Jason too! And one using IG stories, LOL. I think he's going to love living in a big city full-time. Toronto has been on my bucket list for a while --- maybe I'll go to Worlds 2020 and fit in a trip there.

 

[Ross74]

I'm glad to see happy Jason too! And one using IG stories, LOL.

Yeah, his use of Stories seems to have picked up since SOI. Maybe his Story with Baby jason this morning is for the presentation that he and his mom are doing in St. Louis this weekend.

 

[ice coverage]

And today we have another happy Jason post about pride month. ...

Instagram comment added by roheneward: Stay healthy

Which I take as a specific comment to Jason, especially as he dances with abandon with the stop sign.

(On a serious note, three cheers for Jason's support for pride month.)

---

Lol, when I lived in Chicago and took public transit, I zoned out most of the time. Honestly, even a complete Jason fan, I probably wouldn't have even notice them dancing. ...

:agree: Same for me on the NYC subway -- or at least it depends on my circumstances/mood for any particular ride. Sometimes I'm zoning out because I am thinking hard about something or just because I am tired or whatever. Or I'm concentrating on reading something.

Also: people who give mini-performances (dancing, singing, etc.) on NYC subway trains often/usually are trying to earn money. They pass a hat around to solicit tips.
[Obviously I know that the Browns had no such intention whatsoever.]

I couldn't afford to give a tip every single time even if I wanted to.
And because I generally am not inclined to tip (although there have been exceptions), I try not to actively pay attention to the performance (because I do not want to feel as if I "owe" the performer(s) anything for the performance).

 

[el henry]

Yeah, his use of Stories seems to have picked up since SOI. Maybe his Story with Baby jason this morning is for the presentation that he and his mom are doing in St. Louis this weekend.

I know we've seen it before, but I love that Baby Jason clip, so committed to the performance, even with a fall, which hasn't changed in almost 20 years

And David Wilson did Javi's Guys and Dolls??? I love that program, I love how it fit Javi, I loved the moves that reflected the actual show, I love that he managed to squeeze some bars from "Fugue for Tinhorns" in there.

Now I'm psyched

 

[Tavi...]

Ah NYC subways! I spent years riding them - usually with my eyes carefully trained on my music or a book - and it was the first thing I thought of when I saw Jason’s clip. I’ve heard Toronto and New York have a lot of things in common - I just didn’t realize subways would be one of them.

Anyway back to Jason - I just listened to one of the TSL interviews with David Wilson. To date I haven’t been a huge fan of his work, but he came across in the interview as a really nice person, as well as someone who’s quite knowledgeable about music (scherzo!) and very committed to his work and to bringing out the best in his skaters. So I’m really looking forward to seeing what he and Jason come up with. Even if it’s a warhorse- specifically, I would love Rach 2.

For those of you who aren’t completely anti TSL, they discuss Jason a fair amount this week in a relatively positive (albeit gossipy) way. Not sure I agree with everything they say, but they did mention how cool it would be if Jason did the Sasha Cohen skid spiral which Med has adopted - and I love that idea!

 

[Mrs. P]

I know we've seen it before, but I love that Baby Jason clip, so committed to the performance, even with a fall, which hasn't changed in almost 20 years

And David Wilson did Javi's Guys and Dolls??? I love that program, I love how it fit Javi, I loved the moves that reflected the actual show, I love that he managed to squeeze some bars from "Fugue for Tinhorns" in there.

Now I'm psyched

I think one of the big criticisms of Wilson and Javi is a relative lack of range -- after Guys and Dolls he did an Elvis melody that kind of had the same American standard feel. And he always seems to go for goofy and comedic and/or bombastic (Chaplin, Guys and Dolls, Man of La Mancha). But he does perform those programs well.

But yes, I love Guys and Dolls for Javi and it was thrilling to see him slay that free skate in person at 2016 Worlds!

Jason said it was a highlight for him watching that Worlds from home too.

 

[Ross74]

Anyway back to Jason - I just listened to one of the TSL interviews with David Wilson. To date I haven’t been a huge fan of his work, but he came across in the interview as a really nice person, as well as someone who’s quite knowledgeable about music (scherzo!) and very committed to his work and to bringing out the best in his skaters. So I’m really looking forward to seeing what he and Jason come up with. Even if it’s a warhorse- specifically, I would love Rach 2.

I listened to that as well and as I mentioned above, I can't imagine David and Jason on the ice together. God help anyone who is in the room with them. Hope some video will turn up of the process. And I wonder if Jason opened up about being bad at choreography.

For those of you who aren’t completely anti TSL, they discuss Jason a fair amount this week in a relatively positive (albeit gossipy) way. Not sure I agree with everything they say, but they did mention how cool it would be if Jason did the Sasha Cohen skid spiral which Med has adopted - and I love that idea!

Is there any problem with discussing the Jason portion of the latest TSL here? Because I found these comments especially interesting:

- Allegedly, it was Frank who told Jason to not do Worlds. This I believe because he was looking at Jason's run-thrus and would have seen if he didn't look ready, physically or emotionally. If this is true, I think Frank probably did him a favor;
- Rohene has also left Monument. This is something that I've been thinking about for a few months. He disappeared from Monument about the same time that Jason did and only returned when Kori was away. He was in SoCal when Jason was and seems to have been mostly in NJ since then. There's also no reference to 7k on his social media now, and I think there was something on at least one;
- (not Jason, but interesting anyway). Courtney Hicks is now with Kori full time. Really? I know she was there for several weeks but that just seemed like normal behavior for her.

Warning, very gossipy stuff follows. There were some things that Dave said that I couldn't quite make sense of regarding why Brian ended up taking Jason at CC (and I couldn't follow when he meant the overall Team Orser and when he meant the upper echelon of skaters as opposed to the next level down) that had to do with Kori presenting at PSA last week and saying things about jumps that were not correct. So Team Orser thought his jumps could be helped. As I said, very gossipy, and I don't really understand what he was getting at here.

Any comments? If you'd rather not have this here, I'll delete.

I think Dave may have had more to say about Jason and Orser, but he was constantly interrupted by Jonathan and then they went off on a tangent. Nothing new there.

 

[el henry]

Thanks for the summary, Rosa74, I know I sound like a Dave hater, but he is like the little girl with curl in the middle of her forehead to me, when he is good, he is good, when he is bad, well.... So I appreciate the summary.

Did Dave say anything about his previous insistence that Brian would never ever ever ever ever take Jason? Or did he shrug it off with the well, it’s not really Brian, it’s Plan B with the Zamboni driver shtick, because real Brian never would have taken him:disapp:

Very interesting about Rohene, certainly he has been wandering about, but he always was a free spirit. If he has in fact left 7k, would he just be a contractor wherever he may go?

And since Courtney is in CO so much, I figured she was honorary 7k anyway

 

[Mrs. P]

Thanks for the reader digest version. Honestly, I was going to go listen, but now I don't have to lol. At this point, it's more that they're long winded and I don't have tons of time to sit down and listen. They're kind of long winded.

Very interesting tidbits. Yeah, I agree in hindsight it was good he didn't do Worlds, especially in light of Phil's article and the fact he was in such a funk for several weeks after Nationals. It makes what he did at 4CC pretty incredible.

But who from TCC would be at the PSA anyway? I mean the only Canadian coach who was there was Patch (from Gadbois, who won a coaching award), IIRC....but maybe there was a TCC coach there we didn't know about? But I thought PSA was a US coaches thing.

Also, speaking of 4CC -- anyone thought it was super interesting Jason told Kori there that he was ready to switch coaches? I think it supports my theory that he was itching for a change well before the whole U.S. Nationals fiasco. I think Kori has done a lot of great things for Jason and I still respect her as a coach tons, but some of the decisions she made for Jason (and Laurine to an extent) last season were a bit

Also RE: Courtney, she did post a photo with Jonathan Cassar, her choreographer that she's sad it's her last session with him for a while and somebody commented that he and Chelsea Liu were super sad she was leaving, so looks like TSL is right regarding that relocation.

 

[Ross74]

Did Dave say anything about his previous insistence that Brian would never ever ever ever ever take Jason? Or did he shrug it off with the well, it’s not really Brian, it’s Plan B with the Zamboni driver shtick, because real Brian never would have taken him:disapp:

No, nothing about him saying this. I think. You might want to take a listen anyway. He talked quite a bit about TCC, Jason, and how things work there, who the skaters are and the juniors coming up. He didn't seem super thrilled with David Wilson himself and Jonathan thought David would end up super stressed with skaters like Jason and Evgeniya to choreograph for. Tavi might remember more about all of this. I only mentioned the things that really stood out to me. It just seemed like whenever he was going to say more about Jason, he got distracted and it became hard to follow. Just be aware that you will also have to listen to talk about Jenny's cooking and Dave's coloring book pens. I almost stopped at that point and it was at the beginning. He starts with Jason and then goes back to him a few times after talking about other things.

Also, they kept saying how empty it is at Monument now, so of course that's when Courtney decides to come. But while they talked about who has left, they never said anything about Laurine.

ETA: One more thing. Dave said Jason had asked Lori Nichol about just working on movement with her (not choreo) and she said Nope.

Go CAPS!!!

 

[Mrs. P]

^ Yeah, you're not really convincing me to listen.

Actually I think Courtney and Kori would be a pretty good match actually. She was getting coached by Jenni Meno and Todd Sand and while I think they helped polish and refine her skating, I think they couldn't do a whole lot with some of technical inconsistencies. Courtney doesn't have technical issues (she has nice big jumps, doesn't under rotate and doesn't have edge issues). Her mistakes sees more mental, so Kori might be able to help her.

It also seems Courtney and Jordan are good friends.

 

[Haleth]

Gabby listed Jason as one of her rinkmates who are "top people in the world" she feels lucky to train with (also named are Evgenia, Boyang, Jun, and Yuzu) in her Q&A video. The question was specifically about Evgenia, so there was no more content about her other rinkmates iirc.

I know she loves Javi too, so I hope that she clicks with Jason's positivity too.

ETA: Video (question comes at 16:03): https://youtu.be/iLyo9RXI8pM

 

[Tavi...]

Okay so the TSL stuff about Kori/PSA:

What Dave said was that Kori gave a technical presentation at the PSA conference and that someone who had been on their show (I am guessing Doug Haw, who is both a PSA member and a good friend of BO’s, but that’s just my guess) thought she got at least part of it wrong. Basically the implication was that it’s because of certain things about Kori’s technique that Jason has struggled with 3A and quads, and that if TCC corrects his technique, he should be able to get those jumps. If I recall, they talked about having Jason start to rotate earlier (which Brian, more diplomatically, also mentioned in one of the articles about Jason) and making the entry edge into the jump straighter (which I have heard Brian discuss elsewhere, unrelated to Jason).

So aside from the criticism of Kori, what they said about his technique wasn’t earth shattering. And if it’s true that tweaking his technique will solve the problem, I will be thrilled! But as I don’t jump, I don’t know how difficult making those changes will be, how long it will take, and whether they will need to tweak all of his jumps.

The other things they discussed were Jason’s status at the rink and (briefly) his status with USFS. To take the latter first, they basically said that if he doesn’t get a quad in the next year, with all the talented junior men like Camden Pulkinen coming up, he’ll be done - I think they were referring to him losing status with USFS, but because there were so many digressions it was a bit tough to follow.

With regard to his status at TCC, they definitely think that he’s being accorded second tier status based on the fact that Brian isn’t his head coach. They summarized it as: he’s a GP medalist, not a World medallist (like Hanyu, Jin, Med). At the same time, Dave thinks Brian will work directly with Jason on his jumps. Their theory is that Tracy had to convince Brian they needed Jason at TCC because the others will feed off his positive energy. While it does sound like Tracy is the stronger advocate and Brian is just trusting her judgment, I don’t personally think it’s just or even mostly because of his contribution to the rink atmosphere that they took him: I think TSL totally overlooked the quality of Jason’s skating as a factor in Tracy’s advocacy.

Anyway, that’s about it in a nutshell. They’re looking forward to seeing what happens, as we all are.

 

[Ross74]

Thanks for the excellent recap, Tavi. Doug Haw is a very good guess.

 

[Mrs. P]

Thanks Tavi for the summary, now I really won't need to listen! Especially thanks for clarity on the PSA and technique thing.

Honestly it didn't occur to me that the delay in rotation start could be an issue and that actually explains a lot with the 3A and quad issues. Delayed rotations look beautiful -- which is why you saw people do lots of delayed Axels in the 80s when you can put them in a program and it wasn't a point loser or whatever -- but I can see why it's a huge issue if you're trying to get rotations in. It also explains to me why it seem that Jason always seem to get decent height on his 3As and quads but never could rotate them all the way.

I hope they don't don't completely trash aspects of his jumping technique -- I think he actually has really nice flow to his jumps and when he lands them they look really nice -- none of those crooked landings. But I could understand if he might have to give up a bit of the asthethic to actually the jump.

As to how long it could take to rework technique: Mao Asada went through a technique change post-Vancouver -- she had a major flutz and she didn't do it at Vancouver, which is why she still lost to Yuna Kim despite doing all those 3As. She had some success, but she was hit-and-miss for a while leading up to Sochi -- and obviously she had that problem SP. But she also had that awesome FS in Sochi and she regained the World title post-Olympics.

Another person who comes to mind Mirai Nagasu. in the 2009-2010 season, she was doing 3Z-3T pretty well. But then she had major jump problems. She stopped doing the salchow, struggled with her lutz/flip because she was trying to get correct edges (there were points where she got ! on both jumps) and didn't have the 3-3. Obviously we know she learned a 3A. But the fact she was able to get two different 3-3s (and the 2A-3T) consistent and bring salchow back in the last few years (after an Olympic disappointment, just like Jason) is just as noteworthy.

ETA: I actually noticed the delayed rotation watching his "Can't Stop the Feeling" exhibition for like the 80th time. I am partially watching it a lot cause it's a fun Jason program, but mostly cause my kid is OBSESSED with that song. Her little toddler friend brought the Trolls CD (and a singing machine) during our Memorial Day weekend holiday in the woods. They sang that song like 10000000X and now she LOOOVESS that song. Also, I'm sad he didn't do the spilt jumps at my SOI cause she loves it. When we watch it and get to the spilt jumps part, she's like "JUMPING JUMPING JUMPING!"

 

[Tavi...]

Agreed - his jumps are generally really pretty. But Yuzuru has a gorgeous 3A, and Javi has beautiful quads, so that’s a good sign. It will probably be a struggle at first-maybe everything will, I mean they’re starting with SS and going from there-but he has time. At least, I think he does - TSL did make it seem like he doesn’t, but I prefer to disagree.

Jason is not and will never be Yuzuru, but he’s a unique talent, and as much as TSL acknowledges that he’s a “gorgeous” skater, I don’t think they get he’s not so easily replaceable. Nor do they really get how deep this change goes with him. Anyway, we’ll see. I hope we do get some training info soon, and especially news about his new programs.

I’m listening to Rach 2 and warhorse or no, I would love Jason to skate to it. As long as they use different cuts!

AWW about your daughter! I adore Justin Timberlake. So smart, so funny, so talented.

 

[el henry]

So, I decided to give TSL the click.

I was surprised that they were not as negative as I thought they would be, that Dave did actually think that Brian could help with jumps, it seemed like Jonathan was the one who kept saying "I can't believe it".

But, and I realize it's a homegrown operation now, I honestly could not *hear* Dave. I stopped after about ten minutes because I just couldn't hear him. That whole Sandra Bezic thing, what were they saying, or was it just "look, a squirrel"

And every time they said "Bedazzler", I thought Rohene, which I don't think was what they were talking about

 

[ribbit]

Honestly it didn't occur to me that the delay in rotation start could be an issue and that actually explains a lot with the 3A and quad issues. Delayed rotations look beautiful -- which is why you saw people do lots of delayed Axels in the 80s when you can put them in a program and it wasn't a point loser or whatever -- but I can see why it's a huge issue if you're trying to get rotations in. It also explains to me why it seem that Jason always seem to get decent height on his 3As and quads but never could rotate them all the way.

At the risk of going topic:, this comment reminded me of something Scott Hamilton said (and maybe even attempted to demonstrate?) on the figure-skating preview show that he and Tanith White did each night of the 2018 Olympics. I'm paraphrasing, but he stated that quads (I think he was a bit more specific than this, but I can't remember the precise details) had changed the way that jump technique is taught. It used to be, he said, that you learned to jump up first, and then to rotate; now, to fit in four rotations, you have to jump and start rotating immediately. At the time, I wondered if this was one reason why we see fewer delayed Axels--which I miss too--than we used to; in the same way that (I gather) learning a quad can mess up your timing for a triple, perhaps learning to jump with immediate rotation makes it harder to go to the opposite extreme and delay your rotation even beyond what you normally would.

To bring this back to Jason, could it be possible that he initially learned a slightly older jumping technique and hasn't had the extended period of training under a coach who is more used to coaching this newer technique that would be necessary to really master the quicker transition into rotating? I love Jason's skating but am by no means an expert in it or in the details of the jump coaches at 7K or Jason's periods of training with Frank Carroll and other coaches, so I might be completely off base here. Please correct me if I'm wrong!

In any case, I now have a great excuse to rewatch some of Jason's performances, and perhaps some of my favorite skaters from the pre-quad era, and look for rotation.

 

[elbkup]

What marvelous news about Jason's new coaching arrangements!! A win-win situation all around. The jumps,are important, yes, but I expect to Jason's skating even more in future (if that is even possible!!)
Could someone enlighten me regarding "delayed" jumps? Maybe post an example or two? I have never heard this term before so likely wouldn't know one if I fell over it!! would appreciate any input.. Thanks!!

 

[Ross74]

Here's a pic of the G2C group that Jason presented with today in St. Louis. https://www.instagram.com/p/BjlGauHFH7k/?hl=en&taken-by=weisigeraudrey

I recognize Doug Mattis, Chris Conte, and Audrey. Who else is there?