Jason Brown

[karne]

Jason already has a lot of haters who desperately want to minimize any victory he has, we as viewers only get one angle and even from that angle it looks q at most to my untrained eye.
There's also a trend I see with journalists and commentators and the general public to automatically assume Jason's quad is under just because it's Jason. The whole event had bad camera angles and closeups so I wouldn't be quick to call out the controllers on gifting him anything.

Um, what?

I have loved Jason since he was 15. I am one of the earliest posters in this thread.

But I also have technical specialist training. I do pbp to keep myself sharp. And on both forums I have a reputation for being hard on my calling.

Jason did not fully rotate that quad. I do not say that to denigrate him, or put him down, or imply anything shady; I say that because that is what I see. I'm not alone. Many other respected people have also suggested it was not rotated, including Jackie Wong, who is forever leading the hailstorm of protests that Jason doesn't get more 10s in PCS.

I don't know why the panel made the decision that they did. From the available replays it certainly looks short and I can't envisage a scenario where the TP camera angle would make it look around. But there's been lots of questionable calling this year, and Jason is hardly the biggest beneficiary. I don't assume it's UR just because it's Jason. I want it to be around. I want him to be around so much that I practically jam my nose to the screen every time he goes up for a quad. But I'm also not going to sit here and lie and say it was perfect when it wasn't. That would be against my integrity.

 

[kan01]

Um, what?

I have loved Jason since he was 15. I am one of the earliest posters in this thread.

But I also have technical specialist training. I do pbp to keep myself sharp. And on both forums I have a reputation for being hard on my calling.

Jason did not fully rotate that quad. I do not say that to denigrate him, or put him down, or imply anything shady; I say that because that is what I see. I'm not alone. Many other respected people have also suggested it was not rotated, including Jackie Wong, who is forever leading the hailstorm of protests that Jason doesn't get more 10s in PCS.

I don't know why the panel made the decision that they did. From the available replays it certainly looks short and I can't envisage a scenario where the TP camera angle would make it look around. But there's been lots of questionable calling this year, and Jason is hardly the biggest beneficiary. I don't assume it's UR just because it's Jason. I want it to be around. I want him to be around so much that I practically jam my nose to the screen every time he goes up for a quad. But I'm also not going to sit here and lie and say it was perfect when it wasn't. That would be against my integrity.

That's how you see it from your home, the technical panel saw it fully rotated. I personally choose to trust the panel more than people watching from home from one angle, that's why you have three pair of eyes there to call it full or under and not on popular opinnion. It must've been very close otherwise I doubt they would give it to Jason, someone everyone is almost conditioned to assume has underrotated his attempt. It's my opinion, you can have yours.

Edit: Also, no need to get defensive, I'm aware you're a big Jason fan and have been a fan longer than most, including myself. I started from your statement and then went on a full rant, nothing personal.

We're all a bunch of ”experts" on forums and the internet.

Also, I'm thinking about his 2016 attempt, that one had so much better camera angle and it wasn't double footed, it really looked perfect. So this attempt being double footed and his free leg being in front of his landing leg for a split second in the footage before he quickly raises it, it's far from clear.



I went ahead and put the already slowed replay in 0.25 speed on YouTube and you can see his blade is actually very close to the ice before landing giving the impression he did part of the rotation on the ice, it seems to actually be very, very close to the ice, but still in the air. I think that's where people get confused. When the blade actually hits the ice it seems four full rotations. He rotated very, very fast.

 

[fzztsimmons]

What was more confusing to me was the sketchy GOE ranging from +2 to -4. How one jump can have SUCH a range is suspicious to me.

At least Meagan Duhamel called out the ludicrousy (?) of it.

 

[kan01]

What was more confusing to me was the sketchy GOE ranging from +2 to -4. How one jump can have SUCH a dance is suspicious to me.

At least Meagan Duhamel called out the ludicrousy (?) of it.

The GOE was -2 right after the jump and then it went up to -0.80 or something. I think even the judges expected the technical folks to say it's under, because they genuinely thought it was under or simply because of the skater landing it not having a reputation with quads, so they were shook and confused themselves. The quad looked good and it wasn't even very double footed.

Officially, the quad is rotated, and I'm personally very happy, for me it's a full quad and no one can tell me otherwise.
It will mean a lot for Jason to know not everytime he attempts it, it will be under this extreme microscope (with tech people) because of his reputation of not landing them officially clean before.

 

[noskates]

As with some of the others, I choose to go with the positive and the technical callers at the competition, The sad thing to me is that Jason was literally either one rotation or one popped jump from taking the silver. Sooooo close. I know from years past that he usually peaks at Nationals and I'm holding my breath for that one.

 

[Seren]

The quad was close- I would probably have given it a q but honestly it was a big step for him. Irregardless, even if it was under it wasn’t a downgrade which is still a huge step. I also feel like it’s the highest I’ve seen him on that 4S.

 

[kolyadafan2002]

Why would the technical controllers review it and decide to give a present to Jason? They see it from different angles and it was clearly rotated to them or at least more rotated than the second axel who got a q? Why give the quad to him and give a q on the axel? The public seemed to think the quad was under and both axels clean while the technical controllers saw it differently. What makes people think we know better from only one angle than three experts who look at it from multiple angles and in different slow motions? I, for one, trust the specialized staff. Jason also got a ! on the sequence lutz and there was no reason to gift him anything. Jason already has a lot of haters who desperately want to minimize any victory he has, we as viewers only get one angle and even from that angle it looks q at most to my untrained eye.
There's also a trend I see with journalists and commentators and the general public to automatically assume Jason's quad is under just because it's Jason. The whole event had bad camera angles and closeups so I wouldn't be quick to call out the controllers on gifting him anything.

Honestly, I love Jason but there's no way that was clean. Pausing when ice spray happens after toepick hits the ice...

imgur.com

Discover the magic of the internet at Imgur, a community powered entertainment destination. Lift your spirits with funny jokes, trending memes, entertaining gifs, inspiring stories, viral videos, and so much more from users.

imgur.com

As for why they didn't give a call?
No clue. Honestly, the tech panel can give the same jump clean, q, and < depending on how much time they take and how competent the technical specialist is. Even then, they are never consistent. You see this for many skaters at different GP.
Mark (commentator) also said it was underrotated.
Nevertheless, I hope it gives him confidence boost to keep pushing for it.
Congrats for two medals, and fingers crossed for Jason to get a GPF place

 

[kolyadafan2002]

That's how you see it from your home, the technical panel saw it fully rotated. I personally choose to trust the panel more than people watching from home from one angle, that's why you have three pair of eyes there to call it full or under and not on popular opinnion. It must've been very close otherwise I doubt they would give it to Jason, someone everyone is almost conditioned to assume has underrotated his attempt. It's my opinion, you can have yours.

Edit: Also, no need to get defensive, I'm aware you're a big Jason fan and have been a fan longer than most, including myself. I started from your statement and then went on a full rant, nothing personal.

We're all a bunch of ”experts" on forums and the internet.

Also, I'm thinking about his 2016 attempt, that one had so much better camera angle and it wasn't double footed, it really looked perfect. So this attempt being double footed and his free leg being in front of his landing leg for a split second in the footage before he quickly raises it, it's far from clear.



I went ahead and put the already slowed replay in 0.25 speed on YouTube and you can see his blade is actually very close to the ice before landing giving the impression he did part of the rotation on the ice, it seems to actually be very, very close to the ice, but still in the air. I think that's where people get confused. When the blade actually hits the ice it seems four full rotations. He rotated very, very fast.

You can tell from ice spray.
It's same way Vincent underrotates quads (and used to get away with it).
This is more obvious.
It's technique to reduce noticability - where you land on toepick, and stay rotating on ice on toepick (as opposed to landing, then rotating on the blade as many do). It also prevents falling

 

[el henry]

This is a safe Jason space

if longtime and dedicated Jason fans want to say they think the quad was not all the way around, it is not disrespect to Jason, it is expressing doubts here, where we all love him, rather than places that aren't so safe.

I have always said that I am hopeless at counting rotations, but I have seen trusted Internet sources say it was not rotated.

That said, if it was a gift, Jason was due for a gift, and we will take it.

Two GP medals. Yessss

 

[kan01]

Could be @kolyadafan2002
Again, lots of "experts" on the internet. I also don't see Mark's view as necessarily relevant.
His commentary after Jason's FS was annoying, almost depressing in a way, and a bit out of place IMO. He almost swore Jason was out of podium too (funny). Jason was on the podium by a margin of 10 points. I like Mark, this is the first time he annoys me. After Jason's gala performance he did clarify that Jason's quad was ratified and said that it's a win and a step forward or something like that, I don't remember exactly. That was nice.

 

[kan01]

I have always said that I am hopeless at counting rotations, but I have seen trusted Internet sources say it was not rotated.

Not rotated is a bit much, I have also heard trusted sources say it was probably q. I wouldn't call a q quad not rotated, it sounds like under or downgraded to my brain to call it not rotated.
But, yeah, it was fair, because there are lots of others who get full credit for q or even under quads, and I'm not even gonna discuss prerotation.

 

[kolyadafan2002]

Not rotated is a bit much, I have also heard trusted sources say it was probably q. I wouldn't call a q quad not rotated, it sounds like under or downgraded to my brain to call it not rotated.
But, yeah, it was fair, because there are lots of others who get full credit for q or even under quads, and I'm not even gonna discuss prerotation.

For me it was <, not q. But at this point, q complicates things in general. As I've said previously, it's impossible for something to be landed exactly on the quarter, and this actually makes technical panel more arbitrary
They call clean quads under, and under quads clean already. q muddies the water even further.

I'm just going on my skating experience with triples, and often the calling they get wrong (some skaters get called clean/q even when they know they've underrotated the jump).
I guess many skaters often get under-rotation ignored, and this time Jason got the benefit. I know that he can do a clean quad (2016 US nationals - a rare case where a clean jump gets called under IMO). I consider that a quad Jason has landed.
This 4S for me was <. (I'd also have taken a look at other 4S in this competition - Artur Danielian was lucky not to get < in the sp).

That been said, Jason deserved his medal 100% - and regardless of the call I think we can all agree he got the right placement.

 

[sworddance21]

And how many people said that Jason would never be competitive internationally without a quad. Oh yes he can. And now he's got a quad! He never gave up!

I agree. There was something special about that first version. I can't put my finger on what's wrong. It's definitely better than earlier in the season. But it doesn't go as deep for whatever reason. It's not Jason's skating. There is some heart missing. He is doing his best to resonate, but something is missing. We'll see what the next outing looks like. I think if he can find the piece that's missing, it will all come together.

I hope that - as he typically does - the more he sits with this program the more the emotions and the little details will come out. (I do kinda wish they would take the split jump out. It jars with the aesthetic of the program in my opinion.

 

[sdwyer52]

I think the whole point of changing that section was to change the feeling. I know he’s trying hard to say something but it’s not coming through. Perhaps he’s trying to convey someone who has lost everything and is wandering around in a daze…ie less literal storytelling and more emotion. But if that’s what they’re going for, I think David Wilson should have given him more to work with in that section, because it just seems empty and the ending section is overly crammed with too much movement that doesn’t match with the music. His Ina B is lovely but it really isn’t as effective as the long spiral was. I miss the old program.

I’ve watched it quite a few times. I like it better with time. This program is not nearly as emotional as some of the cry baby music used by so many skaters. I want to feel it here. I think they are changing it so much, I don’t know how the timing of the music could always be right.

 

[Bookseller]

These seem to be by a spectator.

The SP

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

m.youtube.com

The FS

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

m.youtube.com

It's interesting seeing the skates from that perspective. In Sinnerman, there is a section that now feels like just skating around, but previously was very powerful and percussive. And in SL, the middle section loses Jason in some way. He's not invested in it. If he can get his intensity back, those programs will resonate much more strongly and the points will follow. The 4S didn't look bad. There wasn't much follow through, kind of a flat footed quad. But he didn't keep rotating on the ice, which I think is why they called it rotated. It basically was, but it lacked finesse. It was good enough for now! He did it, finally! That fan cam was more like experiencing the skate from the stands. I am so glad that they posted that. It was very good camera work. Thanks for posting this!

 

[sdwyer52]

It's interesting seeing the skates from that perspective. In Sinnerman, there is a section that now feels like just skating around, but previously was very powerful and percussive. And in SL, the middle section loses Jason in some way. He's not invested in it. If he can get his intensity back, those programs will resonate much more strongly and the points will follow. The 4S didn't look bad. There wasn't much follow through, kind of a flat footed quad. But he didn't keep rotating on the ice, which I think is why they called it rotated. It basically was, but it lacked finesse. It was good enough for now! He did it, finally! That fan cam was more like experiencing the skate from the stands. I am so glad that they posted that. It was very good camera work. Thanks for posting this!

I agree the fan cams were great! I’m glad Jason is spending time with his family in France.

 

[kan01]

I don't wanna stir anything, but since this is a safe space for the fans, as stated by elhenry, I will say I armed myself with courage and all the zen vibes and watched TSL's commentary about Jason. And I don't think anyone can deny the bad vibes and negative energy coming from Dave. How many times does he have to warn about how Jason is in danger before his questionable, phony worry will be seen as what it really is?
The man just won THREE medals with an injury still lingering from summer, he had a long awaited quad ratified, his scores are better than ever for a start of season even with less than clean skates, there's no one even coming close to putting his spot on the team in danger, you would think people would cut him some slack and keep their negative attitude down a bit, but no. It was funny to see how Johnathan was trying to bring back some sense into the conversation by acknowledging Jason's victories. Now Dave wants Jason to not attempt the quad anymore when he just had his best attempt yet and when for the last four times he attempted it, he stood up all four times and only one was downgraded. He hasn't fallen or popped a quad in almost a year. How does this make sense after Jason going clean with his first three jumping passes in the FS? I am very optimistic, almost wishful thinking optimistic sometimes when it comes to Jason, but even I was amazed how he landed those first three jumping passes after some really bad practice sessions where he fell on the quad and was stepping out of almost every axel attempt. I wasn't even hoping for silver, I was just praying he will get at least bronze that's how scared I was before the FS, I literally feared he would be 4th. Oh, and Dave also thinks it's bad for Jason to go to the GPF because who wants to go there and possibly be 6th out of 6th. I mean, who wants to go to a creme de la creme competition, most skaters don't even dream of qualifying for, and have people and your federation see you as the 6th best male figure skater in the whole wide world by qualifying, that must be awful, right?

 

[babyskate]

I also prefer the original versions of Jason's 2 programs. That being said I think I am guilty of holding him to an impossible standard. Had we never seen the other 2 versions we would all be gushing about how incredible he interpreted these 2 pieces of music.
I am still and always will be in awe of what Jason does on the ice that is so different than anyone else.

 

[dorispulaski]

I wonder whether the new version is a bit empty in spots because the team is leaving space for a second quad? In various interviews, Jason said they planned two as a goal, AFAIR?

 

[Bookseller]

I wonder whether the new version is a bit empty in spots because the team is leaving space for a second quad? In various interviews, Jason said they planned two as a goal, AFAIR?

It's possible, though they generally put other jumps in place of the quad until they decide to include it. I think the quieter content is probably related to the injury and trying not to aggravate it.