Jason Brown | Page 767 | Golden Skate

Jason Brown

I've been lurking a lot lately, but this retrospective is a good idea -- I've enjoyed reading everyone's reflections.

I had to respond to the 2011-2012 Grand Guignol SP retrospective because that's the program that basically made me a full-on fan. I had first saw him the season before -- actually somebody had posted Jason's sectional skates and then I watched him at 2011 Nationals, but I was hooked after watching the Grand Guignol during JGP (Brisbane, hello karne!). It's such a sassy program. It still is one of my favorite SPs even to this day (basically only outranked by his most recent ones).

By the way, the JGP Brisbane thread is kinda entertaining considering that people really did not expect much of Jason at the time because of the lack of a 3A.
https://www.goldenskate.com/forum/showthread.php?34763-Entries-JGP-Brisbane/page4
 
Mrs. P said:
but I was hooked after watching the Grand Guignol during JGP (Brisbane, hello karne!).
Click to expand...

karne, at the time, was too broke to go to JGP Brisbane. I wanted to go, but flying to Brisbane is not cheap, and the drive was too long.

Can I post Liebestraume tomorrow morning? I doubt we'll find any Youtube videos of the first iteration of Prince but Liebestraume will be a really good one to point where he's really making that transition to Senior - and also how messed up his packaging can be sometimes.
 
Great discussion! I'm not very good with the technical aspects of the programs, so I'll take the shallow route. :)

Costumes:
- Turandot - I'm not opposed to this tunic style in general, but I'm glad it was a one-off. I think he was too small to be able to carry it off. It chopped up his body and line.
- Shape of Water - Don't mind the colors and the bling, but scoop necks should NEVER be an option for him.
- Baliwood - I like this costume. It's appropriate for his size and it fits well!
- Grand Guignol- very nice fitting costume that flatters him. Finally, no sagging in the crotch! The V-neck with stand-up collar look good on him and others must have thought so, since it was repeated in the Prince costumes. Of course, those collars were a Prince thing for a time.
 
....toe-tapping......long sighs......checking the clock........having a snack..........petting the spoiled feline..........toe-tapping again.........(waiting for the next video)
 
karne said:
karne, at the time, was too broke to go to JGP Brisbane. I wanted to go, but flying to Brisbane is not cheap, and the drive was too long.

Can I post Liebestraume tomorrow morning? I doubt we'll find any Youtube videos of the first iteration of Prince but Liebestraume will be a really good one to point where he's really making that transition to Senior - and also how messed up his packaging can be sometimes.
Click to expand...

Yes, Karne please do - the 2013 junior worlds version with Tracy commenting if possible!

Everybody, I’m loving your comments but right now in middle of errands - cat to vet etc - bc I am anticipating that we in Denver area will soon be under stricter stay home order than currently. More later!

And Mrs P - so glad to see you here! I thought of you when posting the JGPF SP bc I know it’s one of your favorites.
 
Before we leave it, a still I downloaded long ago from his Grand Guignol program.... :clap: :slink:

IMG_0744.jpg
 
Mrs. P said:
I've been lurking a lot lately, but this retrospective is a good idea -- I've enjoyed reading everyone's reflections.

I had to respond to the 2011-2012 Grand Guignol SP retrospective because that's the program that basically made me a full-on fan. I had first saw him the season before -- actually somebody had posted Jason's sectional skates and then I watched him at 2011 Nationals, but I was hooked after watching the Grand Guignol during JGP (Brisbane, hello karne!). It's such a sassy program. It still is one of my favorite SPs even to this day (basically only outranked by his most recent ones).

By the way, the JGP Brisbane thread is kinda entertaining considering that people really did not expect much of Jason at the time because of the lack of a 3A.
https://www.goldenskate.com/forum/showthread.php?34763-Entries-JGP-Brisbane/page4
Click to expand...

Hello Mrs P! I have missed you! Many of us didn't get on the Jason bandwagon until Riverdance. I had never seen a junior comp and not even sure I watched a Nationals prior to 2014. But as my friend who was at the Nationals said, she was surprised I got so into it so quickly. It's because I was underwhelmed with the skaters that I had been seeing, particularly the men. I did like Brian Boitano, even Jeremy Abbott and I adored John Curry but something about Jason's skating really spoke to me. Seeing these earlier programs that I hadn't watched before, has been an eye opener. I would have become a fan seeing that Grand Guignol program and I am shocked that I hadn't run into it before. Jason's longevity has surprised many skating fans who wrote him off, first for the 3A issue and then for the quad issue. But the qualities that have kept him relevant, even internationally, are present in that Grand Guignol skate. I keep saying that he is as influential in skating as Yuzu or Nathan, but in a different way. He's pushed the PCs and GOEs to their max and is forcing the quad jumpers to pay attention to that and improve their skills. This is no small achievement. Watching him develop and seeing how driven and hardworking he is has converted many a doubter. This has been a strange year, a season with no punctuation mark at the end of it. But for me it was a formative season for Jason as much as 2014 was. In 2014 he became a star. In 2019-20 he became a skater who is a medal contender and a threat. I love that!
 
And if you haven't checked out the 2011 interview with 16 year old Jason linked in Doris' post, it is really interesting, including this about Kori:

“She is like my second mom and the most dedicated coach I have ever seen,” Brown said proudly. “I can honestly say that I am not going to be coached by anyone else but her for the rest of my skating career. I am so fortunate for that.” Awwwww:sad21:

Of course, I would presume almost everyone here made statements at 16 that we learned may not apply to the rest of our lives. And if you haven't, :eek:
 
Okay, I know I said we’d go back to 2009-10 next, but since Karne brought us up to 2013, I thought I’d just go with it.

So here are two versions of Jason’s Prince short program. This was a program he kept for two seasons. Sadly, I think my favorite version (2013 TEB) has disappeared. Still, I think it’s interesting to compare these two versions (last junior season vs first senior/Olympic season) to each other and to Liebestraume and Grand Guignol.

To me, it looks like after Grand Guignol he took a step backwards with Prince in its first year - he struggled with the choreo and character as much as with the 3A. And that year 1 costume!

But by the following October (when he made his Sr GP debut) he was comfortable with both the 3A and the choreo.

Thoughts?

Season 1 (2012-13) version: US Nats 2013:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=T-aGXKJXwbI

Season 2 (2013-14) version: SA 2013:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eRmWq-1g4_w
 
Overall - the 4 programs just point out - again - what I keep saying. As the season goes on Jason gets more and more comfortable with his choreography and he starts skating IT instead of it skating him. The first Liebestraume was what I would expect from a relatively inexperienced skater - the music was not fitting him and the costume was pretty abysmal. By the time Courcheval came around he looked better packaged and was clearly more comfortable with the choreography. One big comparison to recent times is he takes less time to set up his jumps. They've become part of the flow instead of separate entities - if that makes sense.

Then we have The Question of U. Again - who designed that costume? It's so busy and doesn't make sense with the music. It looks pretty amateurish yet the music and the chorepo are more fitting to his skating style. One question I have though is - what happened to his 3A? As a junior it seemed like he was landing it pretty regularly - unless I miscounted the revolutions - and then he lost it and had a hard time getting it back.

One definite though - he kept improving with every program. You could tell from these early presentations that the talent was there - it just needed to stew awhile.

Thanks Karne.
 
noskates said:
The first Liebestraume was what I would expect from a relatively inexperienced skater - the music was not fitting him and the costume was pretty abysmal. By the time Courcheval came around he looked better packaged and was clearly more comfortable with the choreography. One big comparison to recent times is he takes less time to set up his jumps. They've become part of the flow instead of separate entities - if that makes sense.
Click to expand...

Wait, what? He only skated Liebestraume for one season. JGP Courchevel was the first comp of that season (and I liked the costume best there). Junior Worlds was the last comp of that season where he looked far more comfortable but the costuming was worse.
 
Ah, the first year of the Question of U. I'll try to come back more on the program, but the costume was an attempt to be too faithful to Prince. It incorporates elements of what Prince wore in concert, with the ruffles and the vest and the studs. Jason is not Prince, and he couldn't quite pull that one off.

But Rohene later was able to go full on Prince with an exhibition skate a few years ago. At least he didn't dress Jason like that;)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6tzTp7GLrCk

The official video for "Let's Go Crazy" has a montage of scenes from the movie, which include Prince's greatest hits in ruffles and vests. And reminds me just how much I liked that movie back in the day. :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXJhDltzYVQ
 
karne said:
Sorry folks, slept in.

Here we go, Liebestraume, with CBC commentary as requested, 2013 Junior World Championships: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45vIPosHO-o


Now, purely for costume comparison, here is the same program at JGP Courchevel earlier in the season (where he lost to a very young, very tiny Boyang Jin):https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gyIwvHY04o

(I'll post my comments later)
Click to expand...

Tracy on Jason's step sequence "absolutely world class skating". I love hearing her gush over Jason, who would have known that six years later he would have been her new son? :laugh:
I have to say, I hadn't seen any of Jason's junior programmes so this is a (nice) big learning curve for me! I definitely felt the first half of this Liebestraume at Worlds lacked interpretation I have come to know from Jason, you could feel the concentration on the jumps (and oh my, so many axels!) but when he gets towards the step sequence you could see him grow more comfortable and confident, with his trademark Jason-flare!! I could definitely see massive improvements compared to Flow Like Water in terms of flexibility, spin positions etc.

(edit: also sorry I'm a bit behind, coming off a string of nightshifts this week so haven't had a chance to catch up properly)
 
Tavi... said:
Sadly, I think my favorite version (2013 TEB) has disappeared.
Click to expand...

Try this :)

The main thing I don't like about the second Prince costume is that the ornamentation across the pelvic area and down the thigh draws the eye down and gives him a heavier appearance. I like it a lot from the back. I actually don't mind the vest and ruffles. if the neckline had been constructed differently so that it fit better, it could have worked.
 
Like Tavi, 2013 TEB is my favorite version of ? Of You as well tho I love following the development of it through the postings here..
Tavi posted a much better video of Jason's Grand Guignol program than I posted earlier which I chose because it had commentary by Johnny Weir who noted he spoke with Kori about the 3 axel... she had decided at the time to pull it from the program allowing Jason to concentrate more fully on the performance... perhaps that made it more difficult for Jason to incorporate it again later on.. i imagine reinstating it again would not have been easy for him but I am not sure about this.. just a guess. Also, I love that video tho the quality is poor because one can clearly see his competitors in the very beginning as they come off the ice after warm up (Jason skated first).. so Josh Farris, Jeremy Abbott, etc are in the mix there.. fun to see them so young and together.
I must say too, in general, I am not the best video observer of things like jump entry/landing, edge quality, even spins but I am better at seeing these things with Jason than anyone else. Also, I've noticed his spins have miniscule travel.. they are wonderfull to watch
 
I'll comment first on Tavi's two links, the Nats Prince and the SKAM Prince. Once again it's two different skaters, both unfortunately in the same pants. However, once again, the costume wore Jason at Nats, Jason wore the costume at SKAM. The 3A certainly improved, the step sequence improved dramatically. The combo was a little rocky at SKAM. I haven't looked up the judges scores. The commentator said it was fully rotated, but the landing was wonky. Lutz looked great, spins look much better at SKAM. I am looking forward to seeing Riverdance from SKAM if it's out there to compare with 2014 Nats. I didn't hate the SKAM Prince costume. I think they changed it because he grew. The pants aren't quite as floppy as they were in January. Maybe they're new, but maybe he just grew into them. It is clear from Jason's surprise at the score in Detroit and his surprise at the score at Boston Nats later, that this was a major season of improvement in his skills. It also shows what we now realize are the problems with his jump technique that will become more obvious in the next couple of years. But hindsight is........ I had never seen the earlier Prince. I saw the later Prince at 2014 Olympics. I liked it. The shirt doesn't bother me. It's ok.
 
And now for Tracy's commentary on Jason's JWC Liebestraume. First of all, the music is a throwback to all the classical warhorses for decades in figure skating. But he does make the music seem better than it is. I think Yuzu borrowed that shirt for the 2019 season before he went back to his old programs. Same blue, same fluttery shoulder. The pants were ok. Tracy's commentary is so prescient. How I wish Jason had moved to Tracy after the Olympics in 2014. But he's there now! Jason came into 2014 the 4th US man and went out pretty much # 1. Josh was really his biggest competition. Jeremy was finished and Max was waning. Only Jason is still skating competitively now. And Tracy has him. That was lovely! Thank you!
 
Bookseller said:
Jason came into 2014 the 4th US man and went out pretty much # 1. Josh was really his biggest competition. Jeremy was finished and Max was waning. Only Jason is still skating competitively now. And Tracy has him. That was lovely! Thank you!
Click to expand...

*angry hissing* Yes, waning so hard that after this he continued to make improvements, added a second quad to his jump repertoire, won a GP (which Jason still hasn't done, much as I love Jason) and medalled at others, should have won his second National title, went to Worlds three more times, and retired on his own terms having saved the USFS' blushes and the third spot. If that is waning, then so be it, but I see no need for revisionist history in this thread.
 
Gotta chime in to add my support for Max too. :luv17:

As a random throwback re Jason, I will quote TMC's post from Feb 2016 ...

TMC said:
The new issue of Skating magazine is out..Jason is again the S.T.A.R.S. top male athlete for the year 2015. And apparently he has been the top athlete every season since 2011 :)
Click to expand...

... because the other day I happened to be looking up something about Vivian Le ... and accidentally stumbled upon Jason on the opposite page of Feb 2016 issue of Skating magazine. :cool:


(Not that it matters, but in case anyone is wondering, I am pretty sure that Jason's streak did not last forever. But I do not know when it ended.)
 
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