Joannie Rochette

[fumie_fumie]

I love Mathman's idea.

So What does Joannie Rochette have to do to take the final step onto the podium?

She is facing even steeper competition next year with all the strong US ladies moving up to the senior field.

Honest assessment of her status, training will be appreciated.

 

[chuckm]

Look at the TES vs PCS scores from the Worlds SP and FS and you can see what is holding Joannie back:

36.34 27.94 7.07 6.64 7.07 6.96 7.18 KOSTNER
35.22 28.88 7.43 6.89 7.36 7.21 7.21 ASADA
34.83 26.27 6.68 6.21 6.64 6.68 6.64 NAKANO
34.22 26.36 6.68 6.29 6.68 6.64 6.68 KORPI
32.71 28.14 7.21 6.71 7.00 7.14 7.11 KIM
32.99 26.54 6.68 6.25 6.71 6.75 6.79 ROCHETTE


In the SP, Joannie was 5th of the top 6 in TES because she didn't have a 3/3 (as Kostner, Asada and Kim had) and she didn't skate clean (she stepped out of the lutz) as Nakano and Korpi did. In PCS, she was 4th. So while Kim, who was 6th in TES because she fell on her 3Z, finished ahead of Joannie overall because she had the 2nd highest PCS of the top 6. Nakano had the lowest PCS, but finished well ahead of Joannie because her TES was the 3rd highest.

Note that these skaters who finished below Rochette in the SP had higher PCS scores:

32.17 27.32 6.86 6.54 6.96 6.86 6.93 MEIER
31.93 27.28 6.96 6.43 6.89 6.96 6.86 ANDO

Meier had only a 3S as the triple jump and Ando did only a 3/2 and had problems with her flip and one of her spins, so their TES scores were held down.


64.82 58.56 7.57 7.00 7.46 7.25 7.32 KIM
61.89 60.57 7.75 7.29 7.61 7.57 7.64 ASADA
61.88 58.52 7.54 7.04 7.25 7.39 7.36 KOSTNER
56.98 59.32 7.50 7.21 7.61 7.32 7.43 NAKANO
60.52 54.07 6.93 6.54 6.86 6.71 6.75 ROCHETTE
56.57 55.82 6.96 6.64 7.07 7.04 7.18 MEIER

In the FS, Rochette was 4th of the top 6 in TES, but 6th of 6 in PCS, and her PCS score was from 4.45 to 6.5 points lower than the top 4 skaters.

So it would appear that Joannie lags behind the top medal contenders because of her PCS scores, not because of technical content. Attempting to add more difficulty is not necessarily going to help her PCS score, especially if she struggles with consistency as a result.

To my eyes, Joannie appears more stiff and controlled than the top competitors. I don't ever recall getting the feeling that she is 'letting it all hang out'. Perhaps that is because she is somewhat shy and reserved, but on the ice her performance lacks the charisma of Nakano, Asada, Kim and Ando (at her best) and the excitement of Kostner, who commands the ice with her great speed and leggy presence.

That being said, I don't know what Joannie can do to close the PCS gap. She is 22 and her personality is as it is, and what it will be. Perhaps her best chance is for this season, to show the judges that she can skate consistenly well at every performance without visibly struggling.

 

[TtonyV7]

PCS is a problem.

In part, it was her Free Program recycle program. However that said, Rochette has been undermark in this area. She has nice lines, and deep edges, with smooth transitions. She presents a complete program, and should be mark a bit closer to the elite skaters.

Remember, Rochette use to have TOP PCS scores next to Sasha Cohen. But she fell a bit out of judges favor, and her PCS slipped. She just got to continue her momentum throughout the season - start to finish - to be consistent and she'll gain some judges points back.

Also, I'm very curious what programs she'll present this season. B/C she can and has presented the best programs out of all the ladies before (Dumka SP, Hymm d'Amour FP, etc)

Finally, Joannie was much better with her jumps this season, and is finally doing triple-triples. She just needs to keep working on it, however I do feel she'll be more successful attempting at Triple-Salchow - Triple Toe combo rather than a Triple Flip - Triple Toe since she has the best Salchow in the business. Also consistency in the SP is a must this year. She can't afford to be in 5th again and play catch up.

Overall, yes more competition this year, but I think she can hold off the American Ladies. Her "Old School" style of skating is very refreshing and I think a World Bronze is very possible.

 

[Tinymavy15]

I really like Joannie, she has a very different, refreshing style. I do not get why her PCS are so low, i enjoy her skating much more than Kostner and feel that her PCS should be higher than Nakano and much higher than Kimmie. Joannie has been working very hard on her lutz and made great progress with landing almost everytime even the 2nd one in the program. She also has been trying hard with her 3/3, but has not been successful in competition. Once she starts landing it a lot in competition she should see improvements in all areas of her scores.

Her 3/3 sequence that she does at the end of the program does not seem to be getting her the scores she deserves for it, so she might as well take it out for something easier. And keep up the well-chreographed, beautifully dresses programs!

 

[chuckm]

PCS is a problem.

Remember, Rochette use to have TOP PCS scores next to Sasha Cohen. But she fell a bit out of judges favor, and her PCS slipped. She just got to continue her momentum throughout the season - start to finish - to be consistent and she'll gain some judges points back.

When did Rochette have top PCS scores next to Sasha Cohen?

Here were the PCS scores from the Worlds FSs over the past seasons:

Worlds 05
66.07 Irina SLUTSKAYA
62.12 Sasha COHEN
59.36 Michelle KWAN
58.35 Carolina KOSTNER
58.35 Fumie SUGURI
56.73 Shizuka ARAKAWA
55.88 Elena SOKOLOVA
54.62 Susanna POYKIO
54.40 Miki ANDO
51.88 Elena LIASHENKO
50.23 Joannie ROCHETTE

Olympics 06
63.00 Shizuka ARAKAWA
62.41 Sasha COHEN
61.87 Irina SLUTSKAYA
59.25 Fumie SUGURI
56.13 Joannie ROCHETTE
53.54 Kimmie MEISSNER

Worlds 06
61.35 Sasha COHEN
60.29 Fumie SUGURI
60.23 Kimmie MEISSNER
57.94 Elena SOKOLOVA
56.29 Joannie ROCHETTE
55.15 Yukari NAKANO
52.75 Sarah MEIER
51.49 Emily HUGHES

Worlds 07
63.48 Mao ASADA
61.64 Yu-Na KIM
59.45 Miki ANDO
58.77 Kimmie MEISSNER
57.27 Carolina KOSTNER
54.74 Yukari NAKANO
52.98 Sarah MEIER
52.30 Emily HUGHES
51.65 Alissa CZISNY
51.49 Susanna POYKIO
50.39 Joannie ROCHETTE

Joannie's scores have fallen off since the 2005-2006 season, and it's probably because she skated more consistently in 2004-2006 than she has since then.

Also, I'm very curious what programs she'll present this season. B/C she can and has presented the best programs out of all the ladies before (Dumka SP, Hymm d'Amour FP, etc)

I haven't liked any of Joannie's programs since "Firebird". Her SPs are non-descript, and the Hymne d'Amour was atrociously saccharine and was at odds with her athletic skating style. I didn't like the FS from the past two seasons, either--too overly-choreographed. I sometimes think the choreography is to some extent responsible for her low PCS scores. She doesn't relate to the music but seems concentrated on completing all those elements within the overly-intricate choreography.

Finally, Joannie was much better with her jumps this season, and is finally doing triple-triples.

Joannie completed one 3/3 attempt, at 4CC, but the second jump was downgraded, so it received less points than a clean 3/2. As I said in an earlier post, adding 3/3s which are completed at less than a 50% rate will do little or nothing to raise her PCS scores. This season, she had two 3/3 attempts, neither of which was successful---a 0% rate.

She just needs to keep working on it, however I do feel she'll be more successful attempting at Triple-Salchow - Triple Toe combo rather than a Triple Flip - Triple Toe since she has the best Salchow in the business. Also consistency in the SP is a must this year. She can't afford to be in 5th again and play catch up.

She seems content to try a 3/3 in the SP and use the 3S-3T sequence in the FS. The problem with doing 3S+3T in the SP is that if the 3T is judged underrotated, she is at a point huge disadvantage vs. ladies doing 3Z and 3F combinations, even 3/2s. As you said, Joannie can't afford to place low in the SP and try to come back in the FS, because the top ladies all generate higher PCS scores than she does.

Overall, yes more competition this year, but I think she can hold off the American Ladies. Her "Old School" style of skating is very refreshing and I think a World Bronze is very possible.

Caroline Zhang already made the GPF this past season, and Joannie did not. Mirai Nagasu and Caroline have spins that Joannie simply cannot match, and Rachael Flatt has a consistent 3/3 and incredible consistency in her skating (she had 3 clean FSs in a row this past season and her scores went up with each competition). "Old School" style may have a tough time unless it's backed up with technically clean, consistent skating.

 

[Wrlmy]

Joannie IMO can score up to 70 points if she's clean. Her jumps are so strong, and her loop and salchow are probably the best among ladies. I think her relative lack of speed is holding her pcs. Also, pcs in long program is much influenced by sp performance. Considering she's not a strong sp skater, this might be the cause of her low pcs as well.

 

[fumie_fumie]

My favourite Joannie's ex number..

http://youtube.com/watch?v=nnnAPHZbw3Q

 

[TtonyV7]

What I meant to say was that Rochette was capable of high PCS scores when clean:

2006 Worlds Qualifying Rounds Results:
1. Cohen 59.36
2. Suguri 56.08
3. Rochette 55.12

Ahead of Kostner, Meier, Poykio, Nakano, etc.

Short Program:
1. Cohen 30.62
2. Suguri 29.00
3. Rochette 28.00

2006 Skate Canada Free Program
1. Rochette 56.24
2. Suguri 55.68
3. Yuna Kim 55.20

Basically what I'm saying is that she has been rewarded in the past, and is capable of high PCS. But it's just simply a matter of Judges Preference and whether the skater is "hot" or "not" at that time.

In her free program, she uses a T.Toe - h/lp - T.Salchow Sequence

What I suggest was she does a T.Salchow - T.Toe Combo in the SP. Even if the T.Toe is downgraded, it's only 1 point less that a Triple Flip.

And yes, Zhang is very good and well be quite competitive. However it helped Zhang out that she had easier competitions in the GP that allowed her to make the GPF. Rochette had the 4th best overall scores on the GP behind Mao, Kim, and Nakano.

1. Kim 377.88
2. Asada 357.46
3. Nakano 342.20
4. Rochette 338.09
7. Zhang 309.69

Honestly, it will be Rochette consistency that will tell the stories. True, these new crop of American Ladies will be a challenge, but I would not blow Rochette out of the water, because the judges in some ways do appreciate her "old school" style. Remember she tends to receive positive GOE's on most elements.

 

[chuckm]

What I meant to say was that Rochette was capable of high PCS scores when clean:

2006 Worlds Qualifying Rounds Results:
1. Cohen 59.36
2. Suguri 56.08
3. Rochette 55.12

Ahead of Kostner, Meier, Poykio, Nakano, etc.

Short Program:
1. Cohen 30.62
2. Suguri 29.00
3. Rochette 28.00

But Fumie and Sasha skated in a different Q group, judged by different judges. Who is to say that Joannie would have scored that high if she had been in the Fumie/Sasha group?

Anyway, no more QRs, and they accounted for only .25 of the total score at the time.

Also to be considered: 2006 Worlds took place in CANADA, a fact which helped boost Joannie's PCS scores to a level they had never been before (or since).

2006 Skate Canada Free Program
1. Rochette 56.24
2. Suguri 55.68
3. Yuna Kim 55.20

Again, the above competition took place in Canada, with its home ice advantage, and that was Yu-Na's first GP competition. If you recall, Yu-Na made it to (and won) the 2006 GPF, while Rochette did not qualify because of this FS result at 2006 TEB:

57.28 Kim
53.68 Meissner
52.72 Ando
51.36 Rochette
51.04 Poykio

What I suggest was she does a T.Salchow - T.Toe Combo in the SP. Even if the T.Toe is downgraded, it's only 1 point less that a Triple Flip.

A 3S+3T is worth 8.5 if it is completed cleanly. But if the 3T is deemed UR, then the value of the combination is only 5.8, minus a penalty for the UR---leaving a score of 4.5 or less. Meanwhile, a skater who does a clean 3F+2T gets 6.8 points or more, and a clean 3Z+2T gets 7.3 points or more; that could leave Joannie 2-3 behind, just on TES. She'd be better off going for the 3F+3T rather than a 3S+3T, because if it was UR, she'd get at least 5.37 points (what she got at 4CC for 3F+3T<).

And yes, Zhang is very good and well be quite competitive. However it helped Zhang out that she had easier competitions in the GP that allowed her to make the GPF. Rochette had the 4th best overall scores on the GP behind Mao, Kim, and Nakano.

1. Kim 377.88
2. Asada 357.46
3. Nakano 342.20
4. Rochette 338.09
7. Zhang 309.69

Here are the total scores---PCS scores only--- for the 6 finalists and 3 alternates:

175.48 Mao ASADA
174.12 Yu-Na KIM
171.84 Kimmie MEISSNER
166.36 Miki ANDO
163.12 Carolina KOSTNER
161.64 Sarah MEIER
158.12 Yukari NAKANO
157.28 Joannie ROCHETTE
149.64 Caroline ZHANG

Last year, Caroline Zhang was 14 to Joannie's 21. One would expect Joannie to score higher in PCS than Caroline.

Honestly, it will be Rochette consistency that will tell the stories. True, these new crop of American Ladies will be a challenge, but I would not blow Rochette out of the water, because the judges in some ways do appreciate her "old school" style. Remember she tends to receive positive GOE's on most elements.

But Joannie's problem has always been consistency. She rarely has a good SP and FS in the same event.

The advantage that the younger ladies have is that they literally 'grew up' under the IJS. Joannie's "old school" is 6.0.

 

[museksk8r]

I think a clean Joannie is certainly capable of winning a world medal behind Yu-Na Kim and Mao Asada, whom have really proven to be the 2 top ladies in the world in the judges' eyes. Joannie would have finished 4th ahead of Yukari Nakano at Worlds had she not popped the 3loop, which, when completed, normally earns her up to a point or more extra in GOE. It was such a shame when she popped it b/c when she does it, it's the best ladies' 3loop in the world, IMO. I do really like Carolina Kostner, but, in all reality, she certainly is not the epitome of consistency. On any given day, Joannie has just as much a shot at a World or Olympic medal as Carolina does, IMO. They can both either run hot or cold. Rochette tends to easily beat Kostner during the Grand Prix events in terms of points.

I think Joannie's jumps are her strongest suit. In terms of quality and basic technique in the jumps, I think she is only bested by Yu-Na Kim. Yukari's tend to be under-rotated, Carolina's tend to be way out of control and labored, and Mao's tend to be marred by wrong edges, two-footings, and at times, under-rotation.

I wish Joannie could see a spin doctor/specialist to help her show less struggle in her spinning, improve her centering and speed, and help her show more variety in positions. Also, it would really behoove her to improve upon her speed, which would give her skating the impression of more attack and confidence, like Carolina Kostner is capable of displaying.

For one reason or another, Joannie unfortunately tends to have her worst showings of a season at the World Championships. I wish she somehow could get it in her mind to treat that event as if it were a Skate Canada Grand Prix event. She is such a well-balanced skater and it would be a real shame not to see her fulfill all of her potential to become a World and/or Olympic medalist. I know she has it in herself to do so!

 

[chuckm]

I think a clean Joannie is certainly capable of winning a world medal behind Yu-Na Kim and Mao Asada, whom have really proven to be the 2 top ladies in the world in the judges' eyes. Joannie would have finished 4th ahead of Yukari Nakano at Worlds had she not popped the 3loop, which, when completed, normally earns her up to a point or more extra in GOE. It was such a shame when she popped it b/c when she does it, it's the best ladies' 3loop in the world, IMO.

Coulda, woulda, shoulda. If Nakano hadn't underrotated the 3A and 3F, she could have jumped right over Yu-Na Kim and Carolina Kostner and won the silver medal.

Joannie started off the FS by putting a hand down on the 3Z+2T combo, losing 1.29 points, and she had to leave out the 2L, and thus had no 3-jump combination, costing her another 1.5 points. Popping the loop cost her 4.69 points. Then she double-footed and put a hand down on her 2A sequence, losing another 1.49 points. So it wasn't just the loop that cost Joannie a medal, it was a generally less-than-stellar performance that was reflected in a PCS score 5.25 points lower than Nakano's and 4.46 points lower than Kim's. Although Nakano had underrottated two jumps, her performance was joyful and flowing, without jarring interruptions.

I think Joannie's jumps are her strongest suit. In terms of quality and basic technique in the jumps, I think she is only bested by Yu-Na Kim. Yukari's tend to be under-rotated, Carolina's tend to be way out of control and labored, and Mao's tend to be marred by wrong edges, two-footings, and at times, under-rotation.

Results do not bear that out. Joannie is a good jumper, but not a consistently good one. Joannie missed out on a medal at Worlds because she had problems with her 3Z in both SP (turnout on the landing) and the SP (hand down in the 3Z combo), and she popped the loop. At Skate Canada, she had problems with the 3F combo AND the 3Z in the SP, and in the FS, she singled the second jump in both sequences, (one was the 3S, supposedly her best jump). At Cup of Russia, she fell on the 3F combo in the SP and in the FS, turned out of the second jump in first sequence and put a hand down on the second 2A in the second sequence. And Joannie has yet to land a 3/3 in competition (aside from the 3T/3T she landed twice in the 2004-2005 season).

I do not believe that Joannie has ever had a completely clean FS, and that inevitably has been because of jumps. So it is a bit ludicrous to suggest that Joannie is a better jumper than skaters who have won multiple world medals.

 

[museksk8r]

chuck, the judges' protocols tell the truth that was reflected in my post in terms of the QUALITY of Joannie's jumps. Look at the protocols from Worlds and you will find no "we" "<" notations on any of Joannie's jumps. You can't say the same for Mao Asada and Yukari Nakano. That's a fact whether you accept it or not.

 

[chuckm]

Ah, but at the age of 17, Mao Asada is 2008 World Champion, 2007-2008 GPF silver medalist, 2007 World silver medalist, 2006-2007 GPF silver medalist, 2006 World Junior Silver medalist, 2005-2006 GPF Champion, 2005 World Junior Champion, 2004-2005 JGPF Champion. She has never finished off the podium at any international competition she has entered, and for her GP events has received 4 gold, 1 silver, and 1 bronze medal. She won both JGP events she competed in, and both Novice International events she entered. She is the 2007 and 2008 Japanese Champion.

At 22, Yukari is not as accomplished as Mao Asada, but she underwent a major makeover after the 2004-2005 season when she struggled after earlier Junior successes. She has competed at the last 3 World Championships and never finished worse than 5th; she was 4th in 2008. She competed at 4 4CC championships, and was 2nd in 2006 and 3rd in 2003. She was the silver Junior World medalist in 2002. She has competed in 12 GP events and has 1 gold, 3 silver and 2 bronze medals; she made the GPF in 2007-2008 and 2005-2006; she was the 2005-2006 GPF bronze medalist. She competed in 6 JGP events and won 2 gold, 2 silver, and 1 bronze medal. She made it to 3 JGPF events and won JPGF bronze in 2001. Yukari won the 2007 Asian Winter Games. She has been bronze medalist at the last two Japanese Championships.


At 23, Joannie Rochette has never won an ISU Championship event. She has competed in 6 World Championships and never won a medal: her best finish was 5th in 2008; she was 10th in 2007, 7th in 2006, 11th in 2005, 8th in 2004, and 17th in 2003. She has competed in 5 4CC Championships and her best finishes were 2nd in 2008 and 3rd in 2007. She competed at 2 JW Championships, and her best finish was 5th in 2002. She made it to one GPF Championship, where she placed 3rd in 2004-2005. In the GP, she has competed in 10 events, and has 2 gold medals, 1 silver, and 3 bronze. In her 4 JGP events, she won 1 bronze medal. She is a 4-time Canadian Champion (2005-2008). She never made it to the JGPF.

Seeing as how Joannie jumps better than both of these ladies, why is it that she has not had the same level of success as they have? The answer is that while Joannie doesn't flutz or lip and (except for her 3/3 attempts) doesn't underrotate, she also doesn't always land her jumps consistently, and the landings aren't always clean, with step outs and hand downs. She also skates with noticeable effort; I feel exhausted when her FS is finally over. Nakano and Asada both skate as if it were easy for them, and the overall effect watching them is lightness and freedom of movement. That is also why they both tend to get much higher PCS scores than Joannie does.

 

[fumie_fumie]

I believe Yukari is 23 and Joannie is 22.

 

[museksk8r]

At 23, Joannie Rochette has never won an ISU Championship event.

The 2 golds she won at Trophee Eric Bompard in 2004 and Skate Canada in 2006 were both ISU Championship events, as a matter of fact.

I really have no idea why you believe Yukari Nakano is leagues above Joannie Rochette in terms of ability and success. Where are all of Nakano's World medals? The times she has placed above Joannie, it's been by small fractions of points, similar to the spread of the medalists from this year's World Championships. Those small fractions of points between Nakano and Rochette can easily be attained by Joannie. Saying Nakano is so much better than Rochette is like someone saying Yu-Na Kim is so much better than Mao Asada. Basically, the two skaters are on equal footing, IMO.

You can go on with your Canadian hate tirades until you're blue in the face, but you will never convince me that Joannie is as miserable a skater as you believe her to be.

 

[passion]

Joannie is currently one of the world's great skaters. Not the best, but miles ahead of Mira and the other Canadian ladies. 5th is pretty darn good when you put Yu Na and Mao in the mix. I think the best she could do is to become 4th or 3rd if Carolina Kostner makes a major mistake.

She has a lovely classic style. She has the strength and power and elegance that Michelle Kwan had. I think she needs to increase her speed, relax a bit more in her program (while keeping her focus), and be more consistent. I think she could really work on her flexibility.

 

[TtonyV7]

ChuckM you need to chill.

What museksk8r is trying to say is that Rochette is a strong jumper with it's on unique strength. Is it consistent as Kim and Asada? No. Obviously not. SO NO ONE IS SUGGESTING THAT! LUDICROUS! But one of her strengths is the quality of her jumps, from the edges into it, the height, and control. Hence why she tends to receive positive GOE's on those elements.

Look, Mao and Kim are front runners this season. Rochette is a Top 5 world class skater that has strong potential this season to medal.

And yes, she has skated clean Free Programs before.

And just because Rochette is 22, she is not out of the game. Look how long it took for Sarah Meier to become a European Powerhouse skater. Maria Butyrskaya. Tatiana Malinina. Jennifer Robinson.

She's still a strong world contender.

 

[chuckm]

The 2 golds she won at Trophee Eric Bompard in 2004 and Skate Canada in 2006 were both ISU Championship events, as a matter of fact.

They are Grand Prix events, not ISU CHampionship events, which are WORLDS, EUROS, 4CC and JUNIOR WORLDS.

I really have no idea why you believe Yukari Nakano is leagues above Joannie Rochette in terms of ability and success. Where are all of Nakano's World medals? The times she has placed above Joannie, it's been by small fractions of points, similar to the spread of the medalists from this year's World Championships. Those small fractions of points between Nakano and Rochette can easily be attained by Joannie. Saying Nakano is so much better than Rochette is like someone saying Yu-Na Kim is so much better than Mao Asada. Basically, the two skaters are on equal footing, IMO.

I didn't say Nakano was miles above Rochette. However, I think Nakano had a better competitive record as a Junior than Rochette, which is attested to by her JGP and JW medals, which Rochette did not have. Nakano did outskate Rochette head to head at every competition this season, however. That cannot be denied. Since the 2005-2006 season, Nakano has also been a much more consistent skater than Rochette.

You can go on with your Canadian hate tirades until you're blue in the face, but you will never convince me that Joannie is as miserable a skater as you believe her to be.

I don't think Rochette is a miserable skater. In fact, I think she is a very good skater. But I don't think she is a great one, on a level with Asada, Kim or even Ando, and because of her age I don't think she will ever quite make it to that level. Part of the problem is her inconsistency, which I believe stems from a lack of belief in herself.

 

[chuckm]

What museksk8r is trying to say is that Rochette is a strong jumper with it's on unique strength. Is it consistent as Kim and Asada? No. Obviously not. SO NO ONE IS SUGGESTING THAT! LUDICROUS! But one of her strengths is the quality of her jumps, from the edges into it, the height, and control. Hence why she tends to receive positive GOE's on those elements.

Yes, she gets +GOE on her jumps---when she lands them cleanly. So do other skaters. Her problem is that she doesn't always land them cleanly.

And just because Rochette is 22, she is not out of the game. Look how long it took for Sarah Meier to become a European Powerhouse skater. Maria Butyrskaya. Tatiana Malinina. Jennifer Robinson.

Sarah Meier suffered from severe ankle injuries that kept her out of contention for 3-4 years. She has made an excellent comeback, but I would not describe her as a Euro powerhouse skater. She's still a bit on the inconsistent side.

Maria Butyrskaya was deliberately stifled by her federation, who kept her out of the big events when she was a young skater, while pushing Slutskaya, Soldatova and Sokolova. When Slutskaya had her puberty bug years, Maria was finally allowed to establish herself internationally.

Tatiana Malinina had ONE good season and then faded away. Jennifer Robinson was never a world class skater---she was always second tier.
Joannie Rochette has been described as a medal threat since the 2004-2005 season. There comes a time to deliver and we are still waiting......

 

[chuckm]

Joannie is currently one of the world's great skaters. Not the best, but miles ahead of Mira and the other Canadian ladies. 5th is pretty darn good when you put Yu Na and Mao in the mix. I think the best she could do is to become 4th or 3rd if Carolina Kostner makes a major mistake.

To me, a "world's great skater" is one who has consistently finished in the top 5-6 at Worlds. Rochette has yet to do that. She has had a pattern where she finishes well one year then slides down the next: 17th in '03, 8th in '04, 11th in '05, 7th in '06, 10th in '07, 5th in '08.

She has a lovely classic style. She has the strength and power and elegance that Michelle Kwan had. I think she needs to increase her speed, relax a bit more in her program (while keeping her focus), and be more consistent. I think she could really work on her flexibility.

Please. Joannie is a good skater, but she is no Michelle Kwan.