Kamila Valieva: Anti-doping Case and Follow-ups

[lariko]

Also, no, PED use is not rare in figure skating. They just were in the classes of drugs that were not prohibited until fairly recently, and they are advantageous during training regime rather than in competition, so harder to detect in cluster testing that occurs during the competitions. Given that 3 Olympic figure skaters in 3 different countries tested positive in 2022-2024, and countless others used meldonium before it was banned (Tuktamytsheva's interview) then switched to its analogues (Tutberidze's interview), it is not rare. Just like in environmental industry, the testing in sport plays a catch up game with new derivatives of chemicals. One such play-by-play is documented in Valieva's report. So, I always trust the athletes who have the most random clean tests.

 

[Jumping_Bean]

The lab kept retesting Valieva's sample and had to come up with new methods of testing the sample until they received the positive result.

I've told you at least 5 times that this is not what happened. Her sample was always positive, from the start. They had to modify the method protocol to ensure that the positive result was actually not a false positive and would hold up under scrutiny. That is what actually happened.

At this point, it is very clear that you have a) zero idea of the work done in a lab or of the method that was used in this case and b) are unwilling to learn but very willing to stubbornly keep on repeating your false perception of reality.

Breaking the Olympic truce means being at war during the Olympics right? I can name you one country that was fighting illegal wars during all the Olympics from 2002-2021.

No, an Olympic truce is not about "being at war", it's about not declaring new wars and ceasefires in existing wars. The US probably skirted the lines, I don't deny that, but I can't find an example of them actually outright breaking the Olympic truce.
And all wars are illegal, by the way, there are no legal ones.
Just for your information, civil wars/conflicts like the Mexican Drug War also do not fall under the Olympic truce.

I can also name you another country right now who fighting an illegal war. Their leader has an arrest warrant over his head for genocide, and crimes against humanity. Those athletes are not banned.

But now that they have been, violation of Oly truth should lead to suspension, particularly when condemned by all the top international watchdogs. It makes so much sense to use Olympics as a moral compass. Compass, however, should always point in the true direction not be like a weather wane.

What about it taking 3 (!) violations of the Olympic truce for Russia to be banned is so hard to understand? Is there another country that violated the Olympic truce three times, especially not due to ongoing conflicts but because they actually started new wars/armed conflicts during the period of the Olympic truce?
Do I think more countries should be banned? Yes, sure. But if it took three violations to ban one country, it's actually more hypocritical to ban others after one violation already.

 

[rabidline]

US figure skaters and their families and coaching teams are heading to Paris... it seems to be shaping up to be quite a party.

Have been seeing how the medalists were received at the Champions Park throughout the games- and honestly, this is likely to be a vastly superior experience than the masked ceremony in Beijing.

 

[TallyT]

US figure skaters and their families and coaching teams are heading to Paris... it seems to be shaping up to be quite a party.

Have been seeing how the medalists were received at the Champions Park throughout the games- and honestly, this is likely to be a vastly superior experience than the masked ceremony in Beijing.

I don't think this is the right thread for such gloating, maybe someone can a fresh one for the ceremony if people want to celebrate?

 

[el henry]

Noting the travels of the true gold medalists who, after two and a half years are finally getting their merited medals, cannot be gloating?

I am most happy for Vincent, who would not have been able to attend a ceremony in Beijing due to the COVID diagnosis and now can attend a ceremony.

 

[rabidline]

This is how the medalists are received at Champions Park, by the way, under the sunlight with the Eiffel Tower as the backdrop:



Note that Champions Park itself is not the place to award the medals, it's done in their respective venues, so we haven't seen how the crowd reacts to a full medal ceremony. It's a crowd that loves sports- hopefully they gave the medalists a warm welcome and celebration.



It's also important to note that during Beijing, the attendance of the coaching teams and families were very restricted- I don't think any skater has their family with them except when they're credentialed as a coach (think Yuma and his father), so to have the families flying in- Nathan's sister already reserving places in Paris, Zach D meeting his mother after a year, is probably one of the best rewards after such a long period of uncertainty caused by this case.

I think I.AM is also sending multiple coaches in to Paris, Drew Meekins is on his way- and one of the most notable- Todd Sand (who suffered a heart attack in 2022) and Jenni Sand is also on their way for Alexa and Brandon.

Will start a new thread once the photos and videos from the ceremony starts coming in.

 

[TallyT]

Maybe it's a cultural thing, I was always taught that cheering at someone's tragedy, especially that of a child no matter what part they played in it, is... well, I'll leave the rest and the thread to let the cheerers cheer.

 

[alexikeguchi]

Maybe it's a cultural thing, I was always taught that cheering at someone's tragedy, especially that of a child no matter what part they played in it, is... well, I'll leave the rest and the thread to let the cheerers cheer.

Say what? We're celebrating the achievements of the US and Japanese teams, not Kamila's doping suspension.

 

[4everchan]

Maybe it's a cultural thing, I was always taught that cheering at someone's tragedy, especially that of a child no matter what part they played in it, is... well, I'll leave the rest and the thread to let the cheerers cheer.

There is only one real tragedy here : Canada not getting the bronze

I think it's been long enough now for people to start moving on and cheering for the skaters who had won medals (no matter the color) but had to wait almost 2 years to get them...

 

[rabidline]

Maybe it's a cultural thing, I was always taught that cheering at someone's tragedy, especially that of a child no matter what part they played in it, is... well, I'll leave the rest and the thread to let the cheerers cheer.

Are the rightfully earned Olympic medals not being distributed for 2,5 years- to the point that half of the teams are no longer active competitors- not a tragedy? Is the lost Olympic moment and opportunities that come after not a tragedy?

Because I think seeing Olympic medalists returning to their country with an empty case and an Olympic torch was a very hard moment to take. Especially the two teams that will go to the medal ceremony. Even before the medals are reallocated, they have been the rightful silver and bronze Olympic medalists, and they couldn't celebrate for 2,5 years. Put into consideration that this is one of the most difficult Olympics to prepare for, it being fully in isolation and they were separated from most of their support system- even when they trained back home their families have to be careful to not infect them with COVID. Some of them did become individual medalists, but what of those who came close and didn't medal?

I know the team competition in the figure skating Olympics has yet to have the history of other team events in other sports, but just look at how team medalists from US and Japan are celebrated in this Summer Olympics. What happened to the figure skaters in Beijing was incredibly sad and as we reach the conclusion of this case, the effects of that conclusion is also a relevant topic to this case.

A tragedy befell a child, and it impacted the lives and careers of 17 other athletes. Both of that can be true.

 

[4everchan]

^^ perfect post but i would include more than 17 athletes and it would be even more perfect

 

[lariko]

Do I think more countries should be banned? Yes, sure. But if it took three violations to ban one country, it's actually more hypocritical to ban others after one violation already.

In the interest of world peace and Olympic sports' relevance to it, one military campaign of wanton destruction should be it for everyone, as well as campaigns of mass terror and/or sexual violence against their own people. If it's just me who thinks so, well, so be it. I cringed, looking at a boat with only men on it for one.

At any rate, I agree with ISU decision as it stands now on the balance of all variables in respect to figure skating. Congratulations to Teams Japan and USA, sorry to hear that Uno can't attend and I hope that Canada focuses on recruiting and supporting its figure skaters for 2026 Team competition. I assume that before the next Olympics, the rules will be spelled out as clearly as ISU can spell out its rules (or better than average).

 

[4everchan]

I hope that Canada focuses on recruiting and supporting its figure skaters for 2026 Team competition.

Except that since figure skating didn't get any medals in 2022 for Canada, funding may not be optimal from Sports Canada. It may be tougher to support the team this time around. The only redeeming factor may be the results in pairs and dance at worlds in Montreal, especially if these two teams were to repeat their successes this season and/or the next.

 

[lariko]

Except that since figure skating didn't get any medals in 2022 for Canada, funding may not be optimal from Sports Canada. It may be tougher to support the team this time around. The only redeeming factor may be the results in pairs and dance at worlds in Montreal, especially if these two teams were to repeat their successes this season and/or the next.

Sure. But Korea, Germany and Georgia or whoever else would be contesting Canada for that bronze will all be in the same exact situation. So, Canada needs to be hungrier than them. Is Canada hungry? Then it will win. If it's more into personal self-expression on ice and not the end result, well, then it won't. That's how it goes. Wringing hands doesn't help it.

 

[4everchan]

Sure. But Korea, Germany and Georgia or whoever else would be contesting Canada for that bronze will all be in the same exact situation. So, Canada needs to be hungrier than them. Is Canada hungry? Then it will win. If it's more into personal self-expression on ice and not the end result, well, then it won't. That's how it goes. Wringing hands doesn't help it.

I think Italy is the biggest threat and their athletes are certainly going to be well supported with home games. In any case, I don't think it is very relevant to mention other competitors when we are talking about how Sports Canada will fund our athletes. Each country has their own rules... However, for having followed other disciplines, when Sports Canada cuts funding because of lower results, it becomes extremely difficult for athletes. Figure skating is already so expensive, that medal was important to the athletes, not only in reward of their hard work but also in order to continue thier careers. Doping has cost a lot of grief to so many athletes. Read the Christine Girard story, if you want a hint.

 

[lariko]

I think Italy is the biggest threat and their athletes are certainly going to be well supported with home games. In any case, I don't think it is very relevant to mention other competitors when we are talking about how Sports Canada will fund our athletes. Each country has their own rules... However, for having followed other disciplines, when Sports Canada cuts funding because of lower results, it becomes extremely difficult for athletes. Figure skating is already so expensive, that medal was important to the athletes, not only in reward of their hard work but also in order to continue thier careers. Doping has cost a lot of grief to so many athletes. Read the Christine Girard story, if you want a hint.

Great, and Italy. Those who are the hungriest will still win. Fortunately for the sport, good skaters and teams are becoming more wide-spread now, between far more countries than before. In team event, there could be a lot of blocking and playing spoilers. Go figure skating, and may the best team win.

 

[4everchan]

Great, and Italy. Those who are the hungriest will still win. Fortunately for the sport, good skaters and teams are becoming more wide-spread now, between far more countries than before. In team event, there could be a lot of blocking and playing spoilers. Go figure skating, and may the best team win.

Hungriest as long as they don't eat strawberry dessert.

Joking aside, I am thrilled that the team event is no longer a three country race. That is awesome and I agree that it is exciting to see it develop. That was one of the goals of the team event : send a message to nations only focusing on singles that pairs and dance are important.. it certainly worked. The sport is indeed developing wider.

 

[Skating91]

Only the individual and pairs medals mean anything in figure skating. The team event was created in order to have more content for television in the first week. It only means something to skaters who never had any chance of winning big medals individually.

If some people need their team gold or opportunistically try to take a team bronze to justify their careers, then so be it, but I kind of feel sorry for them. This is what I admire about Valieva, she had everything taken from her as the world record holder and best of all time, but carries on without complaint.

Vincent Zhou has been quite vocal but no-one will be rewatching his performances at the Olympics, but Valieva's performances at the Olympics (and all of them) will be rewatched for the next century. Over and over again.

 

[4everchan]

Only the individual and pairs medals mean anything in figure skating. The team event was created in order to have more content for television in the first week. It only means something to skaters who never had any chance of winning big medals individually.

If some people need their team gold or opportunistically try to take a team bronze to justify their careers, then so be it, but I kind of feel sorry for them. This is what I admire about Valieva, she had everything taken from her as the world record holder and best of all time, but carries on without complaint.

Vincent Zhou has been quite vocal but no-one will be rewatching his performances at the Olympics, but Valieva's performances at the Olympics (and all of them) will be rewatched for the next century. Over and over again.

if the team event meant nothing really, why did ROC appeal to keep their gold ?

 

[Skating91]

if the team event meant nothing really, why did ROC appeal to keep their gold ?

They have to look like they are fighting for the athletes and for each federation it's important (seems like it's just a game of one up-manship), but it's a contrived exhibition type of event to create additional TV content at the Olympics. Not to single out particular skaters, but Karen Chen never medaled at a GP stage but she's an Olympic gold medalist, Madeline Schizas the same but was nearly holding an Olympic bronze medal.

ROC was stacked with skaters who can win individual medals at Grands Prix, etc, so I guess the Olympic medal would mean more to them than to skaters who would never be able to medal on their own.

Any GP medal > Olympic team medal