Kawaguchi's Russian citizenship approved

[antmanb]

It's a beautiful sentiment, but I do beg to differ. To begin with, my US citizenship allows me to vote, participating in the democratic process that, among other things, has brought about today's inauguration festivities. It also means that if coup d'etat is to take place in, say, Thailand while I am vacationing there, the US government is likely to help me get the hell out of there before I get roasted. Also, before I acquired my US citizenship, I traveled with the "Refugee Travel Document" (few people have to use it since most travel on their passport in conjunction with green card, but we did have to renounce our Russian citizenship and thus had no nationality at all); the fine print there said that if I became physically or mentally disabled while abroad, the US immigration services had a right to keep me out. Hard to believe, but it was actually there. So no, my citizenship certificate, safe in the safe at the bank, is far more than just a piece of paper to me.

Thank you Ptichka for writing something worthwhile on the topic of citizenship!

Ant

 

[Ptichka]

On the other hand, Tanith B. seemed very willing to stop being Canadian and skate for the U.S. in 2006. I guess that she had lived in the U.S for so long she considered herself an american.

Tanith has dual citizenship. Yuka cannot do this due to Japanese constitution.

I wonder why Yuka and her partner do not skate for japan. The Japanese have a rather non-exisistant pair program, so making the olympic team would be a given. Tamara Moskvina could follow them there, as Terosova did for Mao.

I really don't know about all the politics that took place there. Kawaguchi used to skate with Markuntsov , representing Japan and coming in #2 at Junior worlds. She then skated with an American Patrick - they represented Japan their first year together, and then switched to representing the US (he quit after getting into a hit-and-run accident in Russia, IIRC). Moskvina then paired her with Alexander - I am not sure why the decision was made there and then to represent Russia.

 

[abaka]

I think the key here is that it's Japanese citizenship she's considering giving up to gain aRussian one. In the last twenty or thirty years, we've come to accept many athletes in many sports using passports of convenience, or emigrating permanently, but I can't remember this particular combination. It seems strange to us because Russia is definitely not in the club, so to speak. Or has not been in the club.

But, to be honest, we are so well taught to ignore, patronize, or hate certain countries, that I would discount the entire freedom/stability argument. Nor, (sorry, Ptichka, no offense! ), would I implicitly accept the judgement of emigres, whose unarguable justifications for hating their old country or aspects of it are after all personal.

I'm not at all saying Russia is such a great place. In fact, I know nothing about its present conditions and prospects whatsoever.

But Kawaguchi is there. She sees what's going on. Obviously she's weighing or has weighed all the pros and cons, emotional and practical, for herself.

It's a difficult decision, but it's hers to make.

PS. This hasn't got anything to do with Kawaguchi, but wasn't the liberal/pro-Western opponent to Putin in several of the elections a woman named Hakamada?

PPS. Apparently this is a passport of convenience, and she still hopes to regain Japanese citizenship.

 

[cosmos]

Whatever. I wonder why Yuka and her partner do not skate for japan. The Japanese have a rather non-exisistant pair program, so making the olympic team would be a given. Tamara Moskvina could follow them there, as Terosova did for Mao.

Maybe, it was easier her getting Russian citizenship than her partner getting Japanese one.

 

[Hsuhs]

In another recent interview Yuko herself says it will take up to 10 years to get her Japanese citizenship back, once she's a Russian citizen, unless she marries a Japanese guy and has his kids. In the latter case, it may take less time (the end of quote).
http://russianews.ru/newspaper/20512/20603/

But in either case she has to wait. It also means that from now on she'll have to apply for a visa every time she wants to see her parents (and they may decline her visa application). I respect her decision, and I think she knows what she's doing. I'm just not sure I'd do the same (but I didn't have to, I'm lucky with my dual citizenship).

 

[Mathman]

PS. This hasn't got anything to do with Kawaguchi, but wasn't the liberal/pro-Western opponent to Putin in several of the elections a woman named Hakamada?

:yes: At least one person thought Russia held better prospects than Japan. Irina Hakamada's dad was a big shot in the Japanese Communist party and fled for his life to Russia just before World War II. He married a Russian lady and their daughter went into politics.

As far as I know Irina Hamamada is most famous outside of Russia for opposing Putin on the Chechen terrorist/independence issue.

 

[mycelticblessing]

On the other hand, Tanith B. seemed very willing to stop being Canadian and skate for the U.S. in 2006. I guess that she had lived in the U.S for so long she considered herself an american.

Tanith's given up her Canadian citizenship? I know that she has US citizenship, but I always assumed that she held dual-citizenship. Or does Canada not allow that?

Whatever. I wonder why Yuka and her partner do not skate for japan. The Japanese have a rather non-exisistant pair program, so making the olympic team would be a given. Tamara Moskvina could follow them there, as Terosova did for Mao.

Maybe Smirnov wanted to represent Russia? Or maybe it's even harder to gain Japanese citizenship than it is to gain a Russian one. At the rate their going though, they'll have no problems making the Olympic team in Russia. I can't see Russia not getting 3 spots for the pairs for the Olympics.

 

[Ptichka]

Tanith's given up her Canadian citizenship? I know that she has US citizenship, but I always assumed that she held dual-citizenship. Or does Canada not allow that?

Tanith does have dual citizenship. As do Tchernyshev, Zavozin, Anissina, etc.

As to us treating this case special because it's trading Japanese passport for Russian - I think the key is trading, not the particular countries. Kristin Fraser did something similar by representing Azerbaijan instead of her native US - but she got to keep her American passport as well.

Maybe Smirnov wanted to represent Russia? Or maybe it's even harder to gain Japanese citizenship than it is to gain a Russian one.

I think this must be it. Though, as I've said above, Kawaguchi used to represent Japan with Markuntsov and then with Patrick.

 

[ks777]

I don't know why Japan don't recognize dual citizenships yet. What they lose by recognizing dual citizenships? I just don't get it. Also, even if you were born and raised in Japan and only speak Japanese, you are still not a Japanese citizen unless one of your parents is japanese. I think it's just messed up.

 

[antmanb]

I don't know why Japan don't recognize dual citizenships yet. What they lose by recognizing dual citizenships? I just don't get it. Also, even if you were born and raised in Japan and only speak Japanese, you are still not a Japanese citizen unless one of your parents is japanese. I think it's just messed up.

Argentina until recently had very similar laws - in fact unless you were born on Argenitian soil you were not considered Argentinian. Wrose still until recently it was actually illegal to have dual-nationality.

Ant

 

[mycelticblessing]

I think this must be it. Though, as I've said above, Kawaguchi used to represent Japan with Markuntsov and then with Patrick.

Did she go with them to the Olympics then? Tanith could skate at Worlds with Ben, representing the US before she gained citizenship, but she had to become a US citizen to compete at the Olympics.

 

[Ptichka]

Argentina until recently had very similar laws - in fact unless you were born on Argenitian soil you were not considered Argentinian. Wrose still until recently it was actually illegal to have dual-nationality.

As I understand it, there are two approaches to citizenship - jus soli and jus sanguinis. For the former, it's where you're born that counts (what we have in the US, what France traditionally had, what Ireland used to have, etc.); the latter is the "right of blood", traditionally used in Germany and now used by most European countries, though most I think use a combination of the two systems.

I don't know why Japan don't recognize dual citizenships yet. What they lose by recognizing dual citizenships?

I understand that it's actually in their constitution.

Also, it's interesting that when you take the US oath of citizenship, you have to say, and I quote, "I hereby renounce under oath all allegiance to any foreign state". How is that compatible with dual citizenship? In fact, US does not claim to recognize it either, but it won't take away the US nationality from one who holds another one as well, though there are questions as to how much protection you are going to get if you are a citizen of another country as well as the US. Also, there are odd questions such as military service. US can take your citizenship away if you serve in the military of another country (though the courts have made an exception for Israeli army), which makes sense but can create problems if military service is mandatory is universal in your country of "second citizenship".

Did she go with them to the Olympics then? Tanith could skate at Worlds with Ben, representing the US before she gained citizenship, but she had to become a US citizen to compete at the Olympics.

Good point. She was just a promising young skater back then - could very well be that they weren't considering the Olympics implications of the partnership. And, as I've said above, Kawaguchi & Patric only skated for Japan for 1 season before moving to skate for the US.

 

[abaka]

Most striking is the tolerance shown to athletes switching nationalities to advance their careers. Thogh some fans always grumble, by and large it is considered natural: just an extension of being free to work wherever the best jobs are. But when we work, we work for a company or for ourselves, not for our country. Passports of convenience prove that all flags should be removed from all athletic competitions. At the national and regional levels flags have no meaning; at the international level their meaning is shrinking, and where it remains strong it's a detriment to the sport.

Sorry. Had to say it, although it's a truth only Pearl Buck might find "exciting".

 

[Mathman]

^ There was a brief window of opportunity where I thought figure skating might achieve independent popularity and be able to drop the "Olympic sport" tag. It didn't happen.

The Olympic games are all about flag waving. The winner is not the individual athlete but the country that gets the most medals. (At least, this is what the country that gets the most medals thinks.)

So as long as skating remains a once-every-four-years whoop-de-do, I think we will be stuck with these kinds of issues.

 

[abaka]

^ Figure skating is hardly an Olympic sport; most Olympic skates aren't really all that well done. But perhaps certain countries are just "Olympic countries". Oops, wrong thead...

 

[Fashionista]

I wonder why Yuka and her partner do not skate for japan. The Japanese have a rather non-exisistant pair program, so making the olympic team would be a given. Tamara Moskvina could follow them there, as Terosova did for Mao.

Well, if they skated for Japan they would definitely lose support of Russian Figure Skating Federation which is really powerful and is a real point of success of some Russian athletes. We all know that there's another part of competition in figure skating which takes place in ice rink corridors :banging: and Japanese Skating Union would definitely lose this corridor war.

Also, it's interesting that when you take the US oath of citizenship, you have to say, and I quote, "I hereby renounce under oath all allegiance to any foreign state". How is that compatible with dual citizenship?

By the way according to Russian law dual citizenship is also not permitted in Russia. But you can have TWO citizenships (not dual) - so it's the question of law tricks.