Kim's representatives end Orser's coaching relationship threads merged

[i love to skate]

There's a feeling of vindictiveness here I love You Skate. Yu-na ended my relationship with me, so I'm going to ensure she can't work with David. Going to ensure that everyone hears about how rude her management is. Its not necessary. And it makes him look unprofessional if that's how he handles break ups.

Where did you get the bolded idea from?? David is still choreographing her programs and Brian has said that his relationship with David is fine.

 

[MrBerkeley]

Things get complicated, though, because her mother = her agency = her management. From a business point of view her mother handled things poorly, but you still have that bloodline relation, that motherly instinct to keep in mind. This is why I think having family (especially immediate family such as parents or siblings) represent you like that can backfire so hard. Emotions run wild and things can blow up in your face before you know it. You need someone who is professional and not partial to you in any manner to represent you. That way, the emotions stay behind closed doors- for the most part, anyway.

EXACTLY. Don't run a business with family members or you'll lose a family member. Or hire other tutors, coaches, teachers even if you're qualified otherwise you'll discipline your child dry. Bad move with the agency thing imo.

 

[Johnnnn]

It looks more and more like Yuna's side just wanted to do business just like other skaters do, but Brian took it too personally and felt ditched, and now can't get over with it. I hope they talk to each other.

after all it is his first break up with a student, and not just a student but a special one. Looking at how other coaches deal with breakup Brian still has a lot to learn and certainly not a top level coach he thinks he is.

 

[i love to skate]

Brian still has a lot to learn and certainly not a top level coach he thinks he is.

 

[Johnnnn]

Where did you get the bolded idea from?? David is still choreographing her programs and Brian has said that his relationship with David is fine.

I think so too. Yuna was much closer to David in the first place anyways, He is the one who opened up her mind and made her happy, and the reason she went to Toronto in the firsts place was for David, not for Brian. And seeing how close they were back in Aug during shows in Korea I don't think Yuna will have any problem with David. Also I don't think Brian will go that LOW either.

 

[R.D.]

It looks more and more like Yuna's side just wanted to do business just like other skaters do, but Brian took it too personally and felt ditched, and now can't get over with it. I hope they talk to each other.

But you can't dump a coach and not say anything- not even a one-sentence press release. It's perfectly fine and even understandable if Yuna wanted to end things with her coach, but to not even have the capacity to be present in the room when the coach is being fired- and to not acknowledge it publicly afterward- to me just reeks of coldness and unprofessionalism. And I know Team Yuna is far from the first to do this.

To me, Orser had no choice. Yuna and her team should have said something first, or communicated with Brian to issue a joint press release. All ATS had to say on 8/2 was "Yuna has decided that she has learned all that she can from Orser and has chosen to end the coaching relationship with him. She wishes him the best moving forward" and Brian would have shut up. Simple. But since they didn't do that, they unintentionally gave him the consent to move out with his own story, which of course will be slanted in a way to protect his image.

 

[MrBerkeley]

He is keep saying it is not a money issue and at the same time letting everyone know how Yuna underpays him and added that 5~30% commission comment as if that is what should've happened. He also says he loves Yuna blah blah but still can't stop talking. You know where i'm going with this.

He was trying to get the point across that he's the cheapest coach so it ABSOLUTELY is NOT about the pay (yeah I know the cheapEST part wasn't necessary). It wasn't meant to attack Yuna although the effect (by the media) may result in the same end. I think he was talking from his hurt. That's all. Poor judgement isn't only in the realm of Brian Orser, rather the only sensible thing ATS has done is to remain silent (despite people saying they should release a statement). "GOLD MEDALIST DROPS WINNING COACH AFTER OGM" headline that blew clouds into Mars is done and done. Sensationalist media

 

[Johnnnn]

All of his credentials as a coach comes from Yuna doing so well and I'll decide what a good coach he is few years later when he has done some noticeable work with others. If you think he is at the same level as Frank or Tatiana then

 

[MrBerkeley]

But you can't dump a coach and not say anything- not even a one-sentence press release. It's perfectly fine and even understandable if Yuna wanted to end things with her coach, but to not even have the capacity to be present in the room when the coach is being fired- and to not acknowledge it publicly afterward- to me just reeks of coldness and unprofessionalism. And I know Team Yuna is far from the first to do this.

To me, Orser had no choice. Yuna and her team should have said something first, or communicated with Brian to issue a joint press release. All ATS had to say on 8/2 was "Yuna has decided that she has learned all that she can from Orser and has chosen to end the coaching relationship with him. She wishes him the best moving forward" and Brian would have shut up. Simple. But since they didn't do that, they unintentionally gave him the consent to move out with his own story, which of course will be slanted in a way to protect his image.

I think its rather a girl who got too close emotionally with her coach and couldn't face dropping him, which is yes as you say unprofessional and cold. But more understandable. I don't think it was out of spite or lack of gratitude as some are suggesting but out of emotional maturity (sorry Yuna fans but twitter suggests that she could do a little growing up... not to say Orser isn't fast joining her).

As to whether Orser is an elite coach. He undoubtedly is, but Yuna is also an exceptional exceptional talent. I'm more inclined to give larger portions of credit to Yuna than Orser for the OGM; she's the skater. That isn't to say Orser is not responsible but the way some people are making it sound, Orser made her from scratch... no. Yuna was OGM by a LONGSHOT. As Orser stated she is a uniquely exceptional technical talent.

Edit: TEAM effort. I have no doubt without each other they would have risen to the heights they did. But the slant on the statement that Orser can make any skater like Yuna hasn't yet been proven (i was going to say not fact but he's only really worked with Yuna at the Olympic level so who knows).

 

[R.D.]

EXACTLY. Don't run a business with family members or you'll lose a family member. Or hire other tutors, coaches, teachers even if you're qualified otherwise you'll discipline your child dry. Bad move with the agency thing imo.

You need someone that can make rational decisions in the heat of the moment. Family members don't always have your best interests at heart (or if they do, they don't always think rationally about it)...sometimes, they even have an axe to grind. This is what a representation agency is for.

It appears Yuna's public image has taken somewhat of a hit with this fiasco. (Orser's, too.) It would do her good to either get new management or end her mom's involvement in her current management. Which might be tough considering she was the one who started it in the first place...

 

[janetfan]

the only sensible thing ATS has done is to remain silent (despite people saying they should release a statement). "GOLD MEDALIST DROPS WINNING COACH AFTER OGM" headline that blew clouds into Mars is done and done. Sensationalist media

I am not sure I agree with that. I posted the ESPN press release when Michelle left Frank and it was nothing at all like what you just described.

Maybe it was a different era but Michelle went and talked with Frank about leaving and spent several hours with him. Tears were shed, hugs were exchanged and then Michelle gave a press conference about the split. Dirt that we are seeing with the Orser/Kim split was kept out of the headlines.

This happened four months before the Olympics and Michelle was the best known and most beloved skater in America. Michelle and Frank both handled a difficult situation the best they could. They did not keep it secret and Michelle's father did not break the news to Frank.

When people are making comments about the way ATS handled this there are reasons for it.
Who is to say how it would have turned out if ATS handled this differently but it appears it could not have been any worse than what we see happening now.

 

[Johnnnn]

That's what makes it so annoying. People who don't follow figure skating regularly will say she dumped her coach after winning the Gold medal and that is indeed what Canadians are saying ( I live in Canada so I know. ) Orser is largely responsible for this and whether he intended it to happen that way or not is a question but if he really meant what he said at the end of the CANADA AM interview, then I hope he learns from his mistakes.

 

[MrBerkeley]

You need someone that can make rational decisions in the heat of the moment. Family members don't always have your best interests at heart (or if they do, they don't always think rationally about it)...sometimes, they even have an axe to grind. This is what a representation agency is for.

It appears Yuna's public image has taken somewhat of a hit with this fiasco. (Orser's, too.) It would do her good to either get new management or end her mom's involvement in her current management. Which might be tough considering she was the one who started it in the first place...

Agreed. I also agree its unlikely to happen unfortunately.

 

[Basics]

Johnnnn, man. I totally do not get that kind of spiteful vibe from Orser. I feel like he wanted to compliment YuNa...he desperately wanted something nice to say, and it provided material to do so. I agree that it should have been YuNa's privilege first, but it's such a minor thing to be mad at him for... :disapp:

You never know what his intentions are at this point. I always liked him for being such a gentle guy but I'm losing it rapidly.

 

[R.D.]

That's what makes it so annoying. People who don't follow figure skating regularly will say she dumped her coach after winning the Gold medal and that is indeed what Canadians are saying ( I live in Canada so I know. )

...or in the words of kiira-korpi.net, she sacked her coach. (sorry, I did snicker at the title)

 

[MrBerkeley]

I am not sure I agree with that. I posted the ESPN press release when Michelle left Frank and it was nothing at all like what you just described.

Maybe it was a different era but Michelle went and talked with Frank about leaving and spent several hours with him. Tears were shed, hugs were exchanged and then Michelle gave a press conference about the split. Dirt that we are seeing with the Orser/Kim split was kept out of the headlines.

This happened four months before the Olympics and Michelle was the best known and most beloved skater in America. Michelle and Frank both handled a difficult situation the best they could. They did not keep it secret and Michelle's father did not break the news to Frank.

When people are making comments about the way ATS handled this there are reasons for it.
Who is to say how it would have turned out if ATS handled this differently but it appears it could not have been any worse than what we see happening now.

I meant now and not before. They ABSOLUTELY SHOULD HAVE talked before. Straightened things out. Gotten a deadline. Yuna been present at the Aug 2nd meeting. Yuna and Brian talk things over. Keep communication OPEN.

Let Yuna and Brian talk (unlikely for a while given the spiraling of hurt going on) and then release a joint statement or something that settles this while they remain silent including ATS. I'd hate to see this end the way it is right now. Undoubtedly Brian and Yuna are feeling betrayed regardless of whether they deserve to feel that way.

Its harder to forgive when you're wrong than when you're right. People are so focused on who's right and who's wrong and in the end it really won't matter because proving you're right doesn't fix emotional hurts and pride. One side or both have got to give. Facts do not make peace, hugs do. (yeah sounds lame, but its true).

 

[janetfan]

I meant now and not before. They ABSOLUTELY SHOULD HAVE talked before. Straightened things out. Gotten a deadline. Yuna been present at the Aug 2nd meeting. Yuna and Brian talk things over. Keep communication OPEN.

Let Yuna and Brian talk (unlikely for a while given the spiraling of hurt going on) and then release a joint statement or something that settles this while they remain silent including ATS. I'd hate to see this end the way it is right now. Undoubtedly Brian and Yuna are feeling betrayed regardless of whether they deserve to feel that way.

Its harder to forgive when you're wrong than when you're right. People are so focused on who's right and who's wrong and in the end it really won't matter because proving you're right doesn't fix emotional hurts and pride. One side or both have got to give. Facts do not make peace, hugs do. (yeah sounds lame, but its true).

I agree with you on this. How unfortunate that this wasn't handled better.

 

[R.D.]

Remember the language barrier, though. Clear communication easier said than done at that point. The least they (ATS) could do is get a high-quality KOR-ENG translator- not that with their $10+ million earnings they couldn't afford one or anything...

 

[Johnnnn]

Remember the language barrier, though. Clear communication easier said than done at that point. The least they (ATS) could do is get a high-quality KOR-ENG translator- not that with their $10+ million earnings they couldn't afford one or anything...

Exactly. There is no reason and no excuse for them to keep that person in charge of such an important job. She should've been fired long time ago. Have you seen her translating for Yuna during 2010 WC? Everyone was saying even Yuna can speack English better than that. If she is somehow a family too ( a distant cousin or something lol ) then it's really messed up.

 

[Basics]

Remember the language barrier, though. Clear communication easier said than done at that point. The least they (ATS) could do is get a high-quality KOR-ENG translator- not that with their $10+ million earnings they couldn't afford one or anything...

True...If Yuna had one nice translator/PR person, this could not have become this bad. As myself being a non-native English speaker, I sure know how language barrier can produce big big problems.