Kim's representatives end Orser's coaching relationship threads merged

[MrBerkeley]

I can only imagine what it would have been like had Yuna NOT won the OGM...



Hell, they could have made something (convincing) up! Something that wouldn't actually backfire on them, that is. Just say something vague like "they didn't see eye to eye" or something. Before, I'd agree that ATS didn't need to say anything, but now that it has degenerated into this situation, it would be better if Yuna at least said something as to why she took her action, even if it's vague and PC. By saying nothing and then getting defensive, she's basically authenticating Brian's side of the story, intended or not.

I don't know if not saying anything and getting defensive is authenticating Brian's side of the story. We've all lived life long enough to know that there are always reasons for not talking. Silence doesn't always mean guilty.

Not trying to imply Brian is being abusive because I don't think he is at all, but if FOR EXAMPLE a domestically abused family member remains silent I'm not going to jump to conclusions either way (the supposed abuser abused horrendously OR the abused actually didn't get abused that much). There's a lot of hurt and emotions involved and asking them to have a purely intellectual discourse is a unfair expectation. (Yeah probably this example isn't the most appropriate in this situation but its also the most blatant one that gets the point across )

And I'm also with you on your frustration.

 

[MrBerkeley]

I'm not sure if this will be interesting, but I thought that I could write my thoughts about this matter as a Yuna fan and to put here what I think based on my observations.

5) The management of ATS was considered as horrible not only by casual skating fans, but by the wast majority of Yuna's fans as well. That was a known fact. A long time ago we had enough complains about Helen Choi, an infamous Yuna's PA and translator. Ask prettykeys if you don't believe me. I have no idea why they keep this woman around.

8) ATS doesn't want to disclose the reason behind this and we can't demand for those reasons. We can say that Brian was like a part of family to Yuna and Yuna is known for not talking publicly about the personal matters. That's why there is very few information about her family. What really happened between them should stay between them. Consider this as completely private matter, and not business matter. This is something that they both agree about.

Thank you very much for reading.

Thank you for your post. Some revealing info if accurate.

First, I disagree that Orser sabotaged her (the word sabotage lol implies on purpose). Will there be consequences to this that will affect her show? Yes.

Your 2 points I quoted above suggest a lot of things. Yuna is known famously for being a private person. I did wonder about her sister and I never found any info on her (after reading that she was forced to give up things for Yuna somewhere in this thread or another forum). I'm guessing she isn't talking just as always (MINUS painful TWITTER - like THE fastest way to get out news). In fact, I'd say she must have been fairly emotional and upset to actually post a long post like the one she put up on cyworld/facebook.

Frankly, I'm curious about the twitter part where it says "I know exactly what's going on now?" I'm wondering if there was any slant when she was presented with the information that lead to her belief that she was being belittled by Orser.

 

[Olympia]

Just wondering - are there any other skaters who won the OGM and then fired their coach a few months later?

I don't mean if they announced their retirement or turned pro, but skaters who continued competing.

I can't think of any. But then, it's very rare that skaters in the West continue competing for long after winning an OGM. Those who are from countries with state-run programs probably have less choice in the matter of coaches even if they continue as eligible skaters. I can't, for instance, imagine any of the Chinese pairs skaters up and leaving Yao Bin. The closest we get to this scenario is Yagudin leaving Mishin to train with Tarasova, but that was a good while before Alexei got to "his" Olympics. Michelle leaving Frank Carroll is in a class by itself--mysterious, puzzling. But it doesn't apply here, because she hadn't won an OGM before parting with Carroll.

Of recent Americans, Sarah Hughes continued rather halfheartedly to compete and then sensibly chose college. Tara Lipinski turned pro almost immediately. No one else comes to mind. But then, no one else that I can think of has ever competed under the conditions that YuNa Kim competed under. Until this month, it was like a plot for a movie--a young girl from a country that never had any successful skaters travels halfway around the world to find an ex-skater who's never really coached before, requests his services to train her, becomes the most proficient skater of her time, carries the weight of an entire country on her shoulders but doesn't crack under the pressure on the Big Night...never before, possibly never again. I only wish the story had ended right there and not had this uncomfortable epilogue.

 

[bekalc]

Didn't G/G leave their coaches after they won the Olympics and go to Tarasova? And we have Grishuk and Platov who left Linchuk maybe two years after winning the Olympics. And then there's Yagudin and Michelle leaving their coaches while acting as reigning world champions. Heck Michelle did this this twice.

Just in general, just because skaters were successful with one particular coach doesn't mean that they might feel its in their best interests to make a change. Because needs and desires from a coach change. Situations change too. It doesn't mean anyone did anything wrong.

I will say in general I wasn't praising Yu-na for the contents of the Tweet. I was just saying that the Tweet showed guts, even if showed that she wasn't thinking clearly too. It showed at the very least she wasn't afraid to publically call someone out.

And the thing is I don't think Yu-na was necessarily lying. Even Orser said that. I think that Yu-na was telling the truth from Yu-na's perspective. Whether the perspective was right or wrong is one thing. But the perspective had to be told.

 

[MrBerkeley]

I have so many memories of Michelle Kwan that I didn't even think too much of the whole MK FC split. (edit: as in connect Michelle Kwan and Frank Carroll with their split). Until this that is. (By the way she's my favorite skater. Although seemingly in my house Lipinski also was liked for her jumping... so yeah, I should remember. I'm sure in a few years it won't be really talked about until someone else splits or Sochi when the split is noticeable if they're both there.)

I hope this isn't going to affect MK and YK's relationship or their show in LA. Skating community is so close and wired. Dead silence among the royalty.

Any Mao fans or Miki fans able to shed light on what the situation is in Japan? Probably a mixture of annoyance that YK is still in their lives maybe and disappointment Mao doesn't get to prove herself against the dream team?

 

[Nadine]

Lol, have been away from skating since the Olympics (and also enjoying the lovely summer, soon to be over sadly ), but what brought me back the other day was seeing this over on Yahoo News.

And since then I have been reading the boards, both fortunately (made me look up old videos on youtube of Mao), and unfortunately (reading the bitchfest on the boards).

My take:

a.) making a mountain out of a molehill, but not surprising, knowing the participants and the outrageous skating fans. Same brouhaha as when Michelle & Frank parted ways. And since Yuna seems to be modeling herself after Michelle in every way possible, to be expected.

b.) Yuna's a diva, which is why I've never really liked her (lol, and this coming from an Oksana Baiul Fan; btw I never enjoyed Oksana's infantile diva ways either, so be it). But unlike Yuna, Oksana's skating, et al, made up for everything else.

c.) Not a big fan of Brian Oser or Canada and Canadians when it comes to figure skating, and in particular the 2010 Olympics held in Canada. So don't really care that he & Tracy Wilson (used to be a fav commentator of mine at one time, no longer since her bias of Yuna over Mao) are having it rough. They all three, including Yuna, deserve each other.

d.) bringing Mao into the fray was a low blow; her past speaks for itself ~ always humble, gracious, a lady, never speaking bad about her competitors (unlike me, lol) ~ and everyone knows that throughout her career she has been loyal to her country first & foremost, never leaving, even jeopardizing her chances at gold because of her insistence on staying & training in Japan. And this loyalty extends to Tarasova, whom she has refused to leave. Therefore it is only logical she would never leave her country to train in Canada. But whom I wonder about is Orser? Hmmm, he's the one that has given me pause for thought. His remark about the 3A to Yuna at Worlds, etc. I'm pretty sure deep down inside he would love to train someone like Mao whom has that rare quality not very often seen in skating ~ the desire to be the best ever (including relearning jumps and learning even more difficult jumps!) ~ tons of skaters have talent, but I can count on one hand those that have stayed in skating to become true legends (Grafstrom, Henie, Plushenko). That takes longevity, not just one Olympics, nor two, but three & beyond! And in order to do that, one must always stay ahead of the pack, in fact put oneself so far ahead no one else can touch him/her, not rest on one's laurels. Mao has that desire, Yuna does not. Being an Olympic Champion is enough for 99% of those skaters throughout history, but only that 1% consisting of Grafstrom, Henie, and Plushenko went beyond. 'nuff said...

e.) Yuna's the best female skater I've seen in my lifetime when it comes to the complete package. She's got the artistry of Oksana Baiul when it comes to entrancing the judges (not the soul imho) combined with the athleticism of the best jumpers in history; she's a "natural" jumper in both terms of height, power, flow, and complete rotations (e.g. Irina Slutskaya, Julia Sebestian to name a few). As a long-time skating fan since the 70's I recognize that, which is why I'm sad to see that she lacks that rare quality to stay in the game to become a legend like Grafstrom, Henie, Plushenko. I saw that early on. As a skating fan, I can only imagine what she could have become if she had the mindset of a Mao Asada.

f.) this too shall pass.

 

[parma]

Orser HIMSELF said how important it is to keep everything secret until it is done and her program is still in progress. Also, Yuna used to practice at the rink with the earphones on so that others can't hear her music and tell everyone before she is ready to announce it. This could be the great news to Koreans and Yuna probably wanted to surprise everyone when she was ready and Brian totally blew it. It can be his way of telling her "get out of my rink your secret is no longer safe here" I guess because he already publicly said she should leave the club.

Orser gave himself away in his last interview with the Star, which is one of many interviews he should never have done, by showing just how bitter, immature and self-righteous he can be. After reading the article, I KNOW his intension in revealing her program music was to inflict more pain on her. I used to think he is alright and I even have his autograph, but he crossed the line this time.

 

[ilunga1965]

Orser gave himself away in his last interview with the Star, which is one of many interviews he should never have done, by showing just how bitter, immature and self-righteous he can be. After reading the article, I KNOW his intension in revealing her program music was to inflict more pain on her. I used to think he is alright and I even have his autograph, but he crossed the line this time.

After the news article about his e-mail that mentioned that he had an offer from Japan, my questions about this situation were answered.

Why Yuna have trained alone in the Cricket club since she had come back in Canada.
Why Min-jung decided to leave the club, along with Yu-na.
I don't think Yu-na and Min-jung could train as comfortably as they used to do in the club where several Japanese junior skaters trained together.

He lied about the offer in the interview with Korean media before.
He made a contract with IMG in May and now is a technical consultant for Japan.
The source of his first interview about this matter comes out from IMG NY.
What else do I need to know?

I hoped that Yuna would retire and live a 'normal' life, like other ordinary 20-year-old and that Orser would be a coach of Mao, teaching a perfect 3A. However, as Yuna mentioned before(something happened whenever she was seriously thinking of retiring and that made her keep skating), I'm afraid that she'll continue.




Sorry about my terrble English.

 

[seniorita]

I can only imagine what it would have been like had Yuna NOT won the OGM...

yes, I was wondering the same after last pages, the weight on her shoulders to win must had been tremendus. And you would think a 19 year old Olympic Gold Medalist would now be relaxed and happy, working when and what she likes, but all fuss around her name and this media obligations, which channels will show her new music and which magazines her new dress, sounds too much, and not much happy stuff. It is beyond me to understand all the pressure. And it seems there is no end there..With all the zillion money she makes, does she enjoy any of it? If I were her, i would buy disneyland and sit in there with my friends.

 

[hellcat]

FYI, found this - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xdLQJ6lrX4&feature=player_embedded

I can't trust whatever he says now.

 

[bekalc]

His remark about the 3A to Yuna at Worlds, etc. I'm pretty sure deep down inside he would love to train someone like Mao whom has that rare quality not very often seen in skating ~ the desire to be the best ever (including relearning jumps and learning even more difficult jumps!) ~ tons of skaters have talent, but I can count on one hand those that have stayed in skating to become true legends (Grafstrom, Henie, Plushenko). That takes longevity, not just one Olympics, nor two, but three & beyond! And in order to do that, one must always stay ahead of the pack, in fact put oneself so far ahead no one else can touch him/her, not rest

I'm going to say this. I really don't think its fair to criticize Yu-na for not wanting to learn the 3axel maybe right now or have not learning it. I don't know if you realize this but at one point in Yu-na's career she was trying to learn the 3axel. But Yu-na developed some major injuries because of it. Including a bad back injury which still gives her issues and she's STILL trying to manage today. Think about if your first two seasons ended with you not skating your best at worlds, because you are badly injured. A herniated disk isn't something to play with. This girl can hardly be blamed for saying "stop!" and deciding to do what she could do to ensure ended up at the Olympics healthy and her life healthy.

And really Yu-na did challenge herself in other ways. She could have easily forgotten about the ! (ignored it) and allowed herself to coast in the Olympic season. She instead took a bit risk, introducing a new combination, fixing the flip and making it unstable etc. That was her challenging herself. Both Mao and Yu-na left out jumps and things in the Olympics.

Maybe someday Yu-na will learn the 3axel, if she feels she needs. But her not learning the jump doesnt' necessarily mean she doesn't care about being the best skater she can be etc.

 

[mel66]

Do we need clarification? Yuna called Brian a liar both in her tweet and in the letter to her fans. I would say publicly calling him a liar twice without saying why would be considered disrespectful regardless of your cultural background.

I agree with RD - ex: the way Michelle handled it with her little story about "taking responsibilty for my own skating" was enough to keep the the US press satisfied.

Yuna has told us Brian is lying but refuses to show any proof. I think in a way it is better she doesn't but the lack of reasons from ATS and Yuna does not make a good case. Many are left feeling Orser was disrespected and treated poorly.

Now we know that Brian lied. He said he did get an offer from Mao in the interview from May. But now he is saying that he never got an offer. This means he lied at least once. We just don't know which is the truth and why Brian had to lie.

 

[dlgpffps]

d.) But whom I wonder about is Orser? Hmmm, he's the one that has given me pause for thought. His remark about the 3A to Yuna at Worlds, etc. I'm pretty sure deep down inside he would love to train someone like Mao whom has that rare quality not very often seen in skating ~ the desire to be the best ever (including relearning jumps and learning even more difficult jumps!) ~ tons of skaters have talent, but I can count on one hand those that have stayed in skating to become true legends (Grafstrom, Henie, Plushenko). That takes longevity, not just one Olympics, nor two, but three & beyond! And in order to do that, one must always stay ahead of the pack, in fact put oneself so far ahead no one else can touch him/her, not rest on one's laurels. Mao has that desire, Yuna does not. Being an Olympic Champion is enough for 99% of those skaters throughout history, but only that 1% consisting of Grafstrom, Henie, and Plushenko went beyond. 'nuff said...

I also wish Yu-na could work up a voracious little appetite like Plushy, but to be fair, I'd like to point out that her position is unprecedented. There have been skaters nationally adored (like Mao, Plushenko, Bitt, Dorothy Hamill), but never has there been a skater who has to get up on ice thinking "if I fail to win gold at the Olympics, my country will abandon me." In Korea, Yu-na doesn't stop as a celebrated star athlete. Her every action is under the scrutiny of the media (recently, her secret Twitter was discovered and revealed). She had to escape to Canada to train and live as a normal teenage girl. She repeatedly says her dream is to walk the streets unnoticed and lead a normal life. I think it's amazing Yu-na was able to endure what she did so far. I will not be upset or surprised if she leaves us.

 

[chloepoco]

After the news article about his e-mail that mentioned that he had an offer from Japan, my questions about this situation were answered.

Why Yuna have trained alone in the Cricket club since she had come back in Canada.
Why Min-jung decided to leave the club, along with Yu-na.
I don't think Yu-na and Min-jung could train as comfortably as they used to do in the club where several Japanese junior skaters trained together.

Well then they must be pretty insecure if having "several Japanese junior skaters" affects them like that.

 

[Daniel5555]

Thank you for your kind replies.

One thing that I didn't comment before is this quote

I don't think the "tweet" was anything Yuna will be proud of. The fact that it was removed makes a good case for that. It took no courage to send it since it was an electronice messgae and not face to face. It did show as an earlier article pointed out she may have the maturity level of a 14 year old.

I don't know how you define the maturity, but Yuna achieved in her respective field more, than, I guess, most of the people on this board and she certainly can take the responsibility for her actions and even for other people. She may be impulsive, she may be stubborn, but I don't think she is immature.

As about courage, no one said anything face to face and, maybe, it's better that way.

MrBerkeley

First, I disagree that Orser sabotaged her (the word sabotage lol implies on purpose). Will there be consequences to this that will affect her show? Yes.

I'm not sure that I understand you. I don't think he sabotaged her. There will be consequences that will affect the show, but I don't think that it will affect the number of attendants.

Your 2 points I quoted above suggest a lot of things. Yuna is known famously for being a private person. I did wonder about her sister and I never found any info on her (after reading that she was forced to give up things for Yuna somewhere in this thread or another forum).

You are right. There is very little info about Aera. The same happens with her father and, even, her mother.

Frankly, I'm curious about the twitter part where it says "I know exactly what's going on now?" I'm wondering if there was any slant when she was presented with the information that lead to her belief that she was being belittled by Orser.

I also wonder what is this phrase about.

Some other things...
I think, that Yuna is wonderful person. I don't remember a single time when she spoke bad about anyone. She had some problems and she had anti-fans bullying her in her blog, making ugly images from her photos and insulting her. But even when she (rarely) talked about them, she never said anything bad about them. She didn't say that they are idiots or losers, or something, it was like she considered it normal to the certain point. Having to say something strong (by her standards) is shocking in it's own way and only shows how it really affected her.
I can say pretty much the same thing about Brian. I don't think that he is as wonderful as Yuna, but he also never spoke bad about anyone and he always respected her rivals and other coaches, unlike some of them (I'm referring to coaches, not the skaters. I think there is no any current female skater that said something bad about other skater).
One thing that keeps bothering me, is what exactly Brian wanted to achieve with all his interviews? There was clearly an excess of them and he didn't reveal any new information in the latest of them. Did he want everyone to pity him, because of how rejected he felt? Or did he think that maybe Yuna will change her mind, running to him in tears and saying "Pleaseeeee, Brian, I'm soooo sorry. Let's start over again, let's start over again!". As pathetic as it sounds, but it seems that he went on hurting her on purpose (maybe without clearly realizing it and surely thinking not clearly enough) and he made everyone understand at the same time, that if Yuna will change her mind, he'll accept her. I'm sorry if what I say is perceived as accusations towards Brian, I don't think he is an evil person, I just want to try to understand his logic. It all was clearly a private matter, because from the strictly business point of view, his contract expired in May and they just didn't renew it. He is a public figure, so it's OK to talk about private matters, but he clearly overdid it. Of course, we should consider his emotional state and don't make any conclusions based only on this. At the end, I'm sure he wished good to Yuna and that's why he apparently stopped now.
As for Yuna and her tweet, I had an initial impression that it's like she wanted to say "Look, I don't love you, I hate you, so get away!", but I'm sure that she doesn't hate Brian. It's also clear that they know each other really well and they maintained certain level of familiarity to each other. When she referred to Brian as "B" it was not a derogatory term, as some people may have thought. That was how she referred to him in her blog all the time and how he referred to himself in e-mails to her. On the other hand, Brian also did certain things... You know, we fans noticed, that recently Yuna started to see herself more as a woman or, rather, as an adult, than before and sure Brian knew about it. I can't tell, that I know, but I'm absolutely sure, that when he called her "a kid" in one of his interviews, he did this on purpose. He was the one who said a long time ago that Yuna became a woman and that is a contradiction he made here.

Some fan of Yuna came with an analogy of "divorce" about this, and I have to admit, it certainly looks like one.

So I hope that we can consider those parts.

I would like to finish this overly long post reminding you that, this is not just some scandal, but it clearly is a tragedy for Brian and Yuna. I don't think we can imagine how much Yuna means for Brian, it was his dream coming true and she healed all the possible wounds he could have after never having an Olympic gold medal, because he got him the one that could be called his medal as well. I think he will need some time to overcome this. As much as it could be for Brian, I think it is much worse for Yuna. I am really worried that it all may affect her in a very negative way and for a very long time. This is clearly the worst thing happened to her in her life and losing the Olympic gold would be nothing compared to this. She started to laugh when asked about the possibility of not winning the Olympic games, but splitting with Brian was something unthinkable for her. I don't think that many people even have similar experience. It's not the same as being, to say so, betrayed by your best friend, which may happen at some point for many people. Yuna wasn't betrayed in any way, I think and I hope, but it was very much for her. Most of her good memories, all her major victories, all of them are linked to Brian Orser. This split may be throwing away all her medals and triumphs, because, after all, it was not the gold she chased, but memorable programs and connection with audience, happiness regardless of the results, and she achieved that because of Brian. Not only because of him, but in a big part because of him.
So this is really a serious matter, and while it may appear little and insignificant in some ways, I'm really worried about Yuna just about how she feels, not about her skating. I hope her relatives, friends, and we, fans, will do everything to support her. Without making backlash to Brian, of course.

 

[dlgpffps]

Well then they must be pretty insecure if having "several Japanese junior skaters" affects them like that.

No, but they might have been Japanese spies in disguise

I think it's ridiculous to bring Mao or Japanese juniors into this. People are not stupid. Mao (or some other "evil" Japan/IMG influence) may have been one small reason, but obviously not the main cause of the split.

 

[SkatingAnalyst]

LOGICAL ANALYSIS...Brian Orser's stance.

1. I love Yuna and helped her OGM.
2. Yuna is too young to make a decision.
3. I'm not greedy...I only charge $110 to Yuna which is same to everybody.
4. It is all business whoever I coach. It's OK except Mao.
5. I'm too proud to treat Yuna differently from others.

Really...Nothing wrong...
Brian is 100% right.

But this stance could nullify the special relationship with the 19-year old young kid.

 

[skatinginbc]

Thank you for your kind replies.

One thing that I didn't comment before is this quote
I don't know how you define the maturity, but Yuna achieved in her respective field more, than, I guess, most of the people on this board and she certainly can take the responsibility for her actions and even for other people. She may be impulsive, she may be stubborn, but I don't think she is immature.

When I read it, I cannot help but laugh. "She may be impulsive, she may be stubborn", she may be ego-centric, she may be a *****,..... "but I don't think she is immature." Get my point? Can you explain it in a more logically friendly way? Thanks.

 

[skatinginbc]

LOGICAL ANALYSIS...Brian Orser's stance.

1. I love Yuna and helped her OGM.
2. Yuna is too young to make a decision.
3. I'm not greedy...I only charge $110 to Yuna which is same to everybody.
4. It is all business whoever I coach. It's OK except Mao.
5. I'm too proud to treat Yuna differently from others.

Really...Nothing wrong...
Brian is 100% right.

But this stance could nullify the special relationship with the 19-year old young kid.

LOGICAL ANALYSIS....Yuna Kim's stance.

1. I am the queen, and how hurtful it is to hear that he is flattered by another women.
2. He should have known that I was not happy when I just skated off in practice and did not return his emails.
3. And what hurt me more is that, instead of comforting and pampering me, he gave me more distance when I gave him those "aloof" signals to show my displeasure.
4. I thought if I left the coach position empty, he would know something definately wrong about our relation and thus make every attempt to comfort my feelings. NO, he dumped me!!! WAAAH!!!!
5. So I wrote on the twitter that "I know exactly what’s going on now." The key word is NOW. I didn't truly know his heart, but NOW I know he could dump me so easily.


Really...Nothing wrong.....
She is 100% right, in her own mind.

 

[ilunga1965]

Well...I don't underestimate the influence of IMG. IMG is notorious here in Korea. When Yuna moved to IB, IMG sued her and was defeated.
I do not think Yuna or Min-jung felt comfortable with training with 7(I heard) Japanese junior skaters in the same ice link. There are visitors from the federation and the press..., I donot think that is the matter of emotional security.


Yuna hesitated to sign in new commercial contracts after the Olympics, saying that it's not appropriate to sign first while she's thinking about her retirement. I believe that's why she did not extend the contract with Orser then.
During the time, Orser accepted more students and became busier than ever.

My personal thinking is that he wanted to make an excuse of his decision. Yuna' side said that he told them his final decision on the 23rd of Aug.

Yuna's nickname in Korea is 'a big man' not because she's a good skater, but because she's thoughtful, like an old wise man. I hardly heard that she complained about her situation or criticized someone like this(I mean, the twitter stuff).

Sorry about my poor English.