KSU Suspends Hae-in Lee and Young You

[Bluediamonds09]

What the actual... ?!? More and more often are there instances happening in figure skating that make me question the culture of the sport. I feel sick.

 

[Marty McFlip]

What the actual... ?!? More and more often are there instances happening in figure skating that make me question the culture of the sport. I feel sick.

It's a terrible situation. But as weird as it sounds, It's a good thing than we heard that in figure skating. Their is the same kind of problem in all sports but in my country (France), I have the impression that no one is talking about it. In France football, tennis... have so much more people with license but we rarelly talk about this major problem

 

[Arigato]

No sources I have read use the word "assault." The word they are using is "harassment."

 

[TallyT]

No sources I have read use the word "assault." The word they are using is "harassment."

That could be because of the stigma against taking such things against boys seriously.

I'm horrified. If - and I do emphasise the word if until official confirmation is made - it is who it appears to be, I have been following the seniors as a fan and it hurts, as it does anyone in this situation, but I don't matter as much as the minor involved. I hope he is okay, and even though yes, penalised for breaking the drinking ban he is also supported.

 

[Mathematician]

Of course we don’t know all the details yet, but what stands out to me is that 1. the Korean federation gave full credence to the complaining victim and 2. acted swiftly and decisively. Other skating federations and authorities should take note!

They literally have photo evidence

 

[figureskatingandrainbows]

No sources I have read use the word "assault." The word they are using is "harassment."

Native Korean speakers on Twitter/X state that the translation from the articles is assault/molestation for Skater A and harassment for Skater B.
Source 1, Source 2

 

[Arigato]

Native Korean speakers on Twitter/X state that the translation from the articles is assault/molestation for Skater A and harassment for Skater B.
Source 1, Source 2

I don't use a kid on twitter as a source.

 

[saine]

I don't use a kid on twitter as a source.

A native speaker has been helping the account to provide accurate translations. I appreciate and respect their work since it is not easy to deal with this subject.

 

[Arigato]

A native speaker has been helping the account to provide accurate translations. I appreciate and respect their work since it is not easy to deal with this subject.

Let's call a Korean attorney in Seoul.

 

[el henry]

Let's call a Korean attorney in Seoul.

But you are using social media for your translations, right?

A kid on Twitter is just as valid as whoever you've been reading. Unless you can cite to the attorney in Seoul. That would be cool.

 

[Skating91]

It's good to see a federation take this conduct seriously unlike some others. There is one federation who handed out an award to a coach guilty of being involved with a minor. Appalling. We had a federation angling to have the age limit in pairs lowered to 16 despite knowing the kind of physical and psychological damage this sport does to children competing with adults. There is one actively trying to sweep allegations under the rug as if not happening at the moment.

This sport needs to be thrown out of the Olympics until it is cleaned up. This is the only way to change.

The KSU and the coach share as much blame here as the two women by allowing children to mix with adults at a training camp. It seems the dorms were separated by gender but children were mixing with adults. This is madness. Would not be tolerated in other sports. In figure skating -- normal everyday stuff.

These two women are very silly, maybe very naive, live sheltered lives, and I'm not trying to diminish the seriousness of what happened, but maybe they didn't think through the consequences of this given they are peers of the male at the same KSU training camp (coach assaulting a child is as serious as it gets given the complete power imbalance -- this is serious but involving peers is not quite the same), the sport itself considered a 15 year an adult up until two years ago (people wanted a 15 year old punished like an adult even 6 months ago) and one fed wanted a 16 year old to be classified an adult in pairs up until a month ago, and also, maybe didn't think through their actions in the mistaken belief that two 20 and 19 year old women harassing a 15 year old boy is not the same seriousness as two 20 and 19 year old men harassing a 15 year old girl (unfortunately this is a societal problem even courts punish these crimes completely differently). The sport itself has a high degree of guilt for creating these conditions over many years where this kind of harassment can happen.

Even if it was "consensual" (please I'm not suggesting consent was given but the women mistakenly thought so not understanding the seriousness of this) between the woman and the boy, he's below the age of consent and any kind of sexual activity becomes a criminal matter and the KSU needs to treat it as such.

I'm not trying to diminish what happened, but maybe initially the boy went along with it, he got in trouble, explained what happened, it automatically became a criminal matter since he is under the age of consent. I don't know. I'm trying to come up with a way not to see these two women as monsters, but rather two silly, naive, sheltered women one in their teens and the other barely out of them away from home and getting carried away. Society in general doesn't take it as seriously if it's a woman abusing a boy, so maybe these two women didn't really feel they were doing something abhorrent.

As I have said on here over and over, senior competition is for adults, junior for children. No 17 year old competes in a senior competition. It doesn't matter if a pairs team have to break up or sit on the sidelines for a few years. If there is a clear line in the sand where no child competes in adult competitions, we will have age appropriate pairs and dance teams. We won't have absurd situations where a 14 year old child is teamed up with a 21 year old man then have a fed begging to lower the age limit so the child can compete in adult competitions.

Given how tiny this sport is, the number of scandals is outrageous. Until this sport gets serious about protecting children, throw it out of the Olympics.

 

[Marty McFlip]

Il est bon de voir une fédération prendre cette conduite au sérieux, contrairement à d’autres. Il y a une fédération qui a décerné un prix à un entraîneur coupable d’être impliqué avec un mineur. Épouvantable. Nous avions une fédération qui cherchait à faire abaisser la limite d’âge en couple à 16 ans, malgré le type de dommages physiques et psychologiques que ce sport cause aux enfants qui concourent avec des adultes. Il y en a un qui essaie activement de balayer les allégations sous le tapis comme si cela ne se produisait pas pour le moment.

Ce sport doit être exclu des Jeux olympiques jusqu’à ce qu’il soit nettoyé. C’est la seule façon de changer.

La KSU et l’entraîneur partagent autant de blâme ici que les deux femmes en permettant aux enfants de se mêler aux adultes lors d’un camp d’entraînement. Il semble que les dortoirs étaient séparés par sexe, mais les enfants se mélangeaient aux adultes. C’est de la folie. Ne serait pas toléré dans d’autres sports. En patinage artistique - des choses normales de tous les jours.

Ces deux femmes sont très stupides, peut-être très naïves, vivent des vies protégées, et je n’essaie pas de minimiser la gravité de ce qui s’est passé, mais peut-être qu’elles n’ont pas réfléchi aux conséquences de cela étant donné qu’elles sont des pairs de l’homme dans le même camp d’entraînement KSU (l’entraîneur agressant un enfant est aussi grave que possible étant donné le déséquilibre de pouvoir complet - c’est grave mais impliquer des pairs n’est pas tout à fait la même chose), Le sport lui-même considérait un enfant de 15 ans comme un adulte jusqu’à il y a deux ans (les gens voulaient qu’un jeune de 15 ans soit puni comme un adulte il y a 6 mois) et un nourris voulait qu’un jeune de 16 ans soit classé comme un adulte par paires jusqu’à il y a un mois, et aussi, n’a peut-être pas réfléchi à ses actions en croyant à tort que deux femmes de 20 et 19 ans harcelant un garçon de 15 ans sont pas la même gravité que deux hommes de 20 et 19 ans harcelant une fille de 15 ans (malheureusement, c’est un problème de société, même les tribunaux punissent ces crimes de manière complètement différente). Le sport lui-même a un haut degré de culpabilité pour avoir créé ces conditions pendant de nombreuses années où ce genre de harcèlement peut se produire.

Même s’il s’agissait d’un accord « consensuel » (s’il vous plaît, je ne suggère pas que le consentement a été donné, mais les femmes le pensaient à tort, ne comprenant pas la gravité de la situation) entre la femme et le garçon, il n’a pas l’âge du consentement et tout type d’activité sexuelle devient une affaire criminelle et la KSU doit la traiter comme telle.

Je n’essaie pas de minimiser ce qui s’est passé, mais peut-être qu’au début, le garçon a accepté, il a eu des ennuis, a expliqué ce qui s’était passé, c’est automatiquement devenu une affaire criminelle puisqu’il n’a pas atteint l’âge du consentement. Je ne sais pas. J’essaie de trouver un moyen de ne pas voir ces deux femmes comme des monstres, mais plutôt comme deux femmes stupides, naïves et protégées, l’une adolescente et l’autre à peine sortie de chez elle et s’emportant. La société en général ne prend pas aussi au sérieux le fait qu’il s’agisse d’une femme qui abuse d’un garçon, alors peut-être que ces deux femmes n’avaient pas vraiment l’impression de faire quelque chose d’odieux.

Comme je l’ai dit ici à maintes reprises, la compétition senior est pour les adultes, junior pour les enfants. Aucun jeune de 17 ans ne participe à une compétition senior. Peu importe qu’une équipe de couples doive se séparer ou rester sur la touche pendant quelques années. S’il y a une ligne claire dans le sable où aucun enfant ne participe à des compétitions pour adultes, nous aurons des paires et des équipes de danse adaptées à l’âge. Nous n’aurons pas de situations absurdes où un enfant de 14 ans fait équipe avec un homme de 21 ans, puis se fait supplier d’abaisser la limite d’âge pour que l’enfant puisse participer à des compétitions pour adultes.

Compte tenu de la taille de ce sport, le nombre de scandales est scandaleux. Jusqu’à ce que ce sport prenne au sérieux la protection des enfants, jetez-le hors des Jeux olympiques.

I don't think it should be. Because if you do that, you condemn a sport who try to clean it up (and that's for why we heard so much about sexual assault in FS). But a lot of sport don't do anything and everybody act like it's OK. A few years ago, a french journalist (Romain Molina) has reveal a monstrous affair with Haitian football federation. And it's worse than I've ever seen in skating.

So that problem if you ban figure skating from the Olympics, other sports wouldn't take action because they want to stay at the olympics

 

[MaHa75]

The russian media wrote that one of the senior ladies raped that 17 old boy and another filmed it. My brain cant/want believe it.

 

[lariko]

Tbh, I see a 21 yo guy competing with a 15 yo in juniors in pairs or dance as far more of a red flag than a 16 and an 18 yo at the same camp, particularly if they both compete in juniors. The cut off in singles is 19, the cut off in seniors is 21 (or is it 23 now?) so the athlets will inevitably mix between teens and ya. It's on coaches, chaperones and adult stuff to educate the teens about the rules of consent among the peers. In this incident, the rule breaking was by everyone involved, so yes, they should dole out suspensions and that's great that they did.

 

[figureskatingandrainbows]

Tbh, I see a 21 yo guy competing with a 15 yo in juniors in pairs or dance as far more of a red flag than a 16 and an 18 yo at the same camp, particularly if they both compete in juniors. The cut off in singles is 19, the cut off in seniors is 21 (or is it 23 now?) so the athlets will inevitably mix between teens and ya. It's on coaches, chaperones and adult stuff to educate the teens about the rules of consent among the peers. In this incident, the rule breaking was by everyone involved, so yes, they should dole out suspensions and that's great that they did.

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding your post, but the problem is not necessarily the age range of people at the camp but the fact that someone was sexually assaulted. The age gap is its own separate thing, but this isn't about relationships or dating. It is about an adult sexually assaulting someone. Yes, there are conversations to be had about the responsibility of the staff and coaches to care for their athletes (hence the suspension of the camp training leader), but the issue here is not about a minor and an adult entering a relationship. It is about an adult sexually assaulting a minor, ie doing actions to them without consent. And I've seen others say "they're young and it was just a mistake". I've made many a mistake in my life, but sexually assaulting someone is not a "mistake". Sexually assaulting someone while drunk is not an "accident". And this is not just an "incident". This could be a crime. This could permanently affect the victim.

 

[Azikin]

Sexually assaulting someone while drunk is not an "accident".

It's not. But it depends on what exactly is meant here by "sexually assaulting". It's kind of difficult to imagine these two girls "sexually assaulting" anyone...

 

[figureskatingandrainbows]

It's not. But it depends on what exactly is meant here by "sexually assaulting". It's kind of difficult to imagine these two girls "sexually assaulting" anyone...

We only know a tiny window into the lives of skaters. We can't make character judgements based off of programs and Instagram posts. I don't want to imagine it, and I don't want it to be true, but we do not know them. Women, even young women, can be perpatrators of sexual assault just as much as men can, and at the end of the day, Skater A was found to have committed sexual assault/molestation (that is the exact translation for what Skater A did). This line of thinking is why male victims of assault are often not believed or don't come forwards. Whether it's believing that women aren't capable of sexual harassment or assault or congratulating the victim for "gettiing some", people minimize or ignore what the victim went through, and that is wholly unacceptable. I don't think that's what you're trying to do necessarily, but I have seen so many people repeating the same rhetoric that I stated earlier and it is so unfair that in a case where people have been found guilty for an assault, the victim is still being minimized or people are implying that they are lying.

 

[Jumping_Bean]

It's not. But it depends on what exactly is meant here by "sexually assaulting". It's kind of difficult to imagine these two girls "sexually assaulting" anyone...

Why? Because they're women? Or because they have this whole "cute and innocent" public image, as if public images have anything to do with how people really are?

You won't get any details (officially), and you shouldn't because this case involves a literal minor. What has this society become to demand details of harassment/assault to satisfy disbelief and curiosity...

Harassment was the word used to describe skater B's actions and assault (or physical harassment, as the Korean language seems to have more words to describe the legal situation) was the word used to describe skater A's actions. We already know skater B took sexual pictures and shared them with a minor. If she got a ban of one year, and skater A one of three years, clearly whatever skater A did was worse than that. It probably was not full-on r*pe, but there clearly was some sort of physical component.

If the male skater in question was under 16, any sexual action taken by skaters A and B would be illegal even without an explicit lack of consent, as the age of consent is 16 years old. (The age of consent for people under 19 is 13, but both skaters are 19 and over).

 

[Skating91]

It's not. But it depends on what exactly is meant here by "sexually assaulting". It's kind of difficult to imagine these two girls "sexually assaulting" anyone...

I read he snuck into the dorm where the two women had been drinking and was put in a sexually discomforting situation. It's curious wording. I interpret this as possibly something along the lines as maybe they're in the room drinking the boy is there they get carried away, she misinterpreted things and tried kissing him maybe tried multiple times to the point he got uncomfortable, maybe showed some obscene photos on her phone, maybe flashed him or something. Inappropriate and shows poor judgement (along with drinking alcohol each night imagine how good Korean women could be if they trained properly), but a world of difference to a violent criminal act which is what sexual assault implies.

The second woman sent what seems to be a sexual photo of the first woman to the boy. Okay, this is wrong, but I wouldn't equate it to a sexual assault.

It seems like they all got caught for their late night partying. KSU started interviewing and piece by piece it unraveled. Maybe the parents wanted the boys phone to see what he had been up to because the parents would not be happy that their son would be facing punishment, wants to see the texts from these two women, they see this obscene photo, report it to the federation.

Also, it seems the age of consent in South Korea is 16 (was 13 until 2020), however it is 13-16 for someone under the age of 19 (which is insane). I'm not justifying them, but trying to understand their thought process and why they might have thought this is not a big deal to fool around with a 15 year old boy (if one were 18 and the other 13 somehow this would be legal). If one of them was slightly younger (maybe they only needed to be one month younger), the boy could have given legal consent (maybe this is not the first time fooling around, and one woman was of age to give consent in the past but not now since turning 19 ).

Also, both women are adults I'm not sure why their identities need to be hidden (not a criticism of GS just in general I don't know why the KSU haven't named them it would not reveal the identity of the boy).

 

[Jumping_Bean]

Also, both women are adults I'm not sure why their identities need to be hidden

I've been told that KSU might be unlikely to officially reveal the skaters involved due to the anti-defamation laws in Korea.

Even the publication of facts that may harm the social status of someone could constitute a criminal offense, unless the person revealing the facts is able to prove that they are of public interest (which is probably the case here, but definitely explains the hesitation to outright name skaters A and B, especially because both of them are now protesting against their bans).