KSU Suspends Hae-in Lee and Young You

[Amei]

I read he snuck into the dorm where the two women had been drinking and was put in a sexually discomforting situation. It's curious wording. I interpret this as possibly something along the lines as maybe they're in the room drinking the boy is there they get carried away, she misinterpreted things and tried kissing him maybe tried multiple times to the point he got uncomfortable, maybe showed some obscene photos on her phone, maybe flashed him or something. Inappropriate and shows poor judgement (along with drinking alcohol each night imagine how good Korean women could be if they trained properly), but a world of difference to a violent criminal act which is what sexual assault implies.

The second woman sent what seems to be a sexual photo of the first woman to the boy. Okay, this is wrong, but I wouldn't equate it to a sexual assault.

It seems like they all got caught for their late night partying. KSU started interviewing and piece by piece it unraveled. Maybe the parents wanted the boys phone to see what he had been up to because the parents would not be happy that their son would be facing punishment, wants to see the texts from these two women, they see this obscene photo, report it to the federation.

Also, it seems the age of consent in South Korea is 16 (was 13 until 2020), however it is 13-16 for someone under the age of 19 (which is insane). I'm not justifying them, but trying to understand their thought process and why they might have thought this is not a big deal to fool around with a 15 year old boy (if one were 18 and the other 13 somehow this would be legal). If one of them was slightly younger (maybe they only needed to be one month younger), the boy could have given legal consent (maybe this is not the first time fooling around, and one woman was of age to give consent in the past but not now since turning 19 ).

Also, both women are adults I'm not sure why their identities need to be hidden (not a criticism of GS just in general I don't know why the KSU haven't named them it would not reveal the identity of the boy).

I feel like the punishment of athlete A is the thing that doesn't support that speculation that this was basically just an issue of violating team rules for training camp. The number of years for Athlete A and the fact that these are or were 2 of their top ladies makes me think something against the law occurred.

Assuming the punishments hold for the Athlete A & B and depending on the parameters of what they can and cannot do during the ban - Athlete A's career could be over at the very least she won't have a shot at the Olympics in 2026, Athlete B is potentially going to be away long enough (and potentially damage to her reputation in the Fed) that making it onto the Olympic team is going to be a long shot.

 

[Arigato]

Two South Korean Figure Skaters Suspended From Competitions For Harassment

Two figure skaters from the South Korean national team have been temporarily suspended in connection with a harassment case. This was reported by the news outlet Naver, citing a representative of the Korean Skating Union.

www.telecomasia.net

 

[Dreamer57]

I feel like the punishment of athlete A is the thing that doesn't support that speculation that this was basically just an issue of violating team rules for training camp. The number of years for Athlete A and the fact that these are or were 2 of their top ladies makes me think something against the law occurred.

Assuming the punishments hold for the Athlete A & B and depending on the parameters of what they can and cannot do during the ban - Athlete A's career could be over at the very least she won't have a shot at the Olympics in 2026, Athlete B is potentially going to be away long enough (and potentially damage to her reputation in the Fed) that making it onto the Olympic team is going to be a long shot.

I think that both their careers would be over.
If skater B comes back in a year, wouldn't she still have to train with other (younger) skaters? Would the coach stand by her?
I haven't heard of skaters making a comeback after such a ban.

 

[Amei]

I think that both their careers would be over.
If skater B comes back in a year, wouldn't she still have to train with other (younger) skaters?

Not sure what you mean here?

I think that both their careers would be over.
If skater B comes back in a year, wouldn't she still have to train with other (younger) skaters? Would the coach stand by her?
I haven't heard of skaters making a comeback after such a ban.

The only other instance I can think of hearing about a figure skater being banned for something that wasn't related to a doping violation was Tonya Harding and that is a lifetime ban...so I don't know if we have past historical precedent with figure skating to see how a skater might come back. I would imagine it would damage their standing in the Fed for politicking. Coaches as well is questionable - if they have younger skaters would those skaters be 'okay' being in a training environment with Athletes A & B and if not then the coach may choose to not continue their coaching relationship with athlete A or B or with the younger athletes.

 

[MaHa75]

Why? Because they're women? Or because they have this whole "cute and innocent" public image, as if public images have anything to do with how people really are?

You won't get any details (officially), and you shouldn't because this case involves a literal minor. What has this society become to demand details of harassment/assault to satisfy disbelief and curiosity...

Harassment was the word used to describe skater B's actions and assault (or physical harassment, as the Korean language seems to have more words to describe the legal situation) was the word used to describe skater A's actions. We already know skater B took sexual pictures and shared them with a minor. If she got a ban of one year, and skater A one of three years, clearly whatever skater A did was worse than that. It probably was not full-on r*pe, but there clearly was some sort of physical component.

If the male skater in question was under 16, any sexual action taken by skaters A and B would be illegal even without an explicit lack of consent, as the age of consent is 16 years old. (The age of consent for people under 19 is 13, but both skaters are 19 and over).

The age cap was so small....all three were literally same age. The "minor boy" was 17 and the girls were at that time 18 and 19. I assume that alcohol was that triger to do this stupid things but outcome against the girls are too harsh because of one year age difference.

 

[Jumping_Bean]

The age cap was so small....all three were literally same age. The "minor boy" was 17 and the girls were at that time 18 and 19. I assume that alcohol was that triger to do this stupid things but outcome against the girls are too harsh because of one year age difference.

Skater C has not been identified, but should people be interpreting the hints toward his identity correctly, he was not 17.
Skaters A and B have more or less been confirmed, and both were 19, with one of them turning 20 during the training camp.

Also, the problem here isn't (just) age, it is non-consensual sexual contact. It would be a problem even if he was older than Skater A and B. I just brought up the age because if he is under 16, it adds another legal component to it. (As in there being no way for it to have been consensual in the eye of Korean law.)

 

[katymay]

I am eternally grateful that there was no internet and no cell phones back when I was skating. And some of our bad behavior consisted of things like: Stealing beer from a grocery store, cutting a girls hair off while she slept, drinking under age, throwing furniture out of a hotel window. If I told you who did these things, you would know the names. Yes, we got in trouble, but the whole world didn't find out about it, and it was forgotten the next month. Young people do stupid things, especially under the influence of alcohol. The only difference between then and now is the whole world gets to jump on a bandwagon and judge, often blowing the incidents way out of proportion.

 

[TT_Fin]

Laura Lepistö published a book about her skating careerbrecently written by Marika Lehto. She and Kiira Korpi had went to celebrate with the Finland's ice hockey team at Vancouver Oympics (nothing sexual but drinking and they were clearly adults). Coaches had told not go but they went and next morning they went to ice having hangover. I am quite sure people do more doomable things than this and Kiira has also told about this before (but she did not tell about Laura before Laura did it herself).

I would not doom adult skaters about drinking. Maybe the other's birthday during the camp had something to do with it. If the Fed's rules say don't do it during the camp I think some kind of note and small punishment would be enough. But sexual thing with a junior another thing and his words and how he feels the situation play the biggest role here.

 

[CrazyKittenLady]

A subtitled news bit offering some clarifications:

- YouTube

Auf YouTube findest du die angesagtesten Videos und Tracks. Außerdem kannst du eigene Inhalte hochladen und mit Freunden oder gleich der ganzen Welt teilen.

youtu.be

 

[Jumping_Bean]

I am eternally grateful that there was no internet and no cell phones back when I was skating. And some of our bad behavior consisted of things like: Stealing beer from a grocery store, cutting a girls hair off while she slept, drinking under age, throwing furniture out of a hotel window. If I told you who did these things, you would know the names. Yes, we got in trouble, but the whole world didn't find out about it, and it was forgotten the next month. Young people do stupid things, especially under the influence of alcohol. The only difference between then and now is the whole world gets to jump on a bandwagon and judge, often blowing the incidents way out of proportion.

Sorry but "Play stupid games, win stupid prizes."

Some things are, in fact, not supposed to be forgotten after a month. Sexual harassment is one of those things (and in my opinion, so is physical assault, which cutting someone's hair without consent can be classified as in multiple countries).

And I too was a young and stupid teen once, not even that long ago - I never did anything even close to this. One of my peers might have sold drugs, but not because of youth and stupidity, more because of being poor and coming from a bad family.
Apart from the fact that 19- and 20-year-olds are not who I think of when talking about the stupid teen years - These are legal adults in most countries.

 

[Jumping_Bean]

A subtitled news bit offering some clarifications:

- YouTube

Auf YouTube findest du die angesagtesten Videos und Tracks. Außerdem kannst du eigene Inhalte hochladen und mit Freunden oder gleich der ganzen Welt teilen.

youtu.be

And unfortunately a rather strong hint towards the identity of skater C. Wish they hadn't included that information.

 

[Joekaz]

Sorry but "Play stupid games, win stupid prizes."

Some things are, in fact, not supposed to be forgotten after a month. Sexual harassment is one of those things (and in my opinion, so is physical assault, which cutting someone's hair without consent can be classified as in multiple countries).

And I too was a young and stupid teen once, not even that long ago - I never did anything even close to this. One of my peers might have sold drugs, but not because of youth and stupidity, more because of being poor and coming from a bad family.
Apart from the fact that 19- and 20-year-olds are not who I think of when talking about the stupid teen years - These are legal adults in most countries.

19 and 20 year olds do incredibly stupid things, especially when sex and relationships are involved. Everyone needs to wait until everything is completely out in the open as to what exactly happened and why. All these holier than thou public avengers need to be quiet and quit trying to wreck people's lives, especially when they don't even know what exactly was going on.

 

[saine]

19 and 20 year olds do incredibly stupid things, especially when sex and relationships are involved. Everyone needs to wait until everything is completely out in the open as to what exactly happened and why. All these holier than though public avengers need to be quiet and quit trying to wreck people's lives, especially when they don't even know what exactly was going on.

Considering that what happened resulted in a 3 year suspension for one of the country's top dimension, I doubt this is simply a matter of doing 'stupid things.' I would hold back on accusing people of trying to wreck people's lives without knowing the whole story either.

 

[Jumping_Bean]

19 and 20 year olds do incredibly stupid things, especially when sex and relationships are involved. Everyone needs to wait until everything is completely out in the open as to what exactly happened and why. All these holier than though public avengers need to be quiet and quit trying to wreck people's lives, especially when they don't even know what exactly was going on.

60-year-olds also do incredibly stupid things when relationships are involved - Maybe some people just are stupid. But as they say, stupidity does not protect you from consequences.

What is it with the obsession of wanting to know about the details of sexual harassment cases? Have you ever even thought about the victims of such situations for a second? To have their trauma dragged out in detail publicly for the morbid curiosity and misguided sense of "justice" of people who have nothing to do with the situation? Maybe the information we have is as much information as we'll ever get, considering the anti-slander laws in Korea and the likely age of skater C, maybe not, but you don't get to demand more.

There has been an investigation, and a punishment has been handed out. Do you think they are just doing that for fun? That they want to potentially severely impact the success and reputation of the Skating Union for nothing? That they just dislike skaters A and B?

And babes, if people knowing about your actions wrecks your life, you wrecked your life. Also, *holier than thou

 

[Joekaz]

Considering that what happened resulted in a 3 year suspension for one of the country's top dimension, I doubt this is simply a matter of doing 'stupid things.' I would hold back on accusing people of trying to wreck people's lives without knowing the whole story either.

Political bodies are under all kinds of pressure to be politically correct. I will happily refrain from accusing people if they would stop making ignorant comments.

 

[Joekaz]

60-year-olds also do incredibly stupid things when relationships are involved - Maybe some people just are stupid. But as they say, stupidity does not protect you from consequences.

What is it with the obsession of wanting to know about the details of sexual harassment cases? Have you ever even thought about the victims of such situations for a second? To have their trauma dragged out in detail publicly for the morbid curiosity and misguided sense of "justice" of people who have nothing to do with the situation? Maybe the information we have is as much information as we'll ever get, considering the anti-slander laws in Korea and the likely age of skater C, maybe not, but you don't get to demand more.

There has been an investigation, and a punishment has been handed out. Do you think they are just doing that for fun? That they want to potentially severely impact the success and reputation of the Skating Union for nothing? That they just dislike skaters A and B?

And babes, if people knowing about your actions wrecks your life, you wrecked your life. Also, *holier than thou

If we get no information than people should not comment of things they are ignorant of. So far we know they were drinking, OMG! We know he went to their dorm. We know he was shown a picture of one of the girls. Does not sound so horrific to me. If I get other details I will reconsider. But so far that is all anyone knows.

 

[Jumping_Bean]

Political bodies are under all kinds of pressure to be politically correct. I will happily refrain from accusing people if they would stop making ignorant comments.

This is Korea - A country where you can be incarcerated for defamation by publicly alleging facts. I think your opinion of political correctness is a very different one than the one they operate under.

If we get no information than people should not comment of things they are ignorant of. So far we know they were drinking, OMG! We know he went to their dorm. We know he was shown a picture of one of the girls. Does not sound so horrific to me. If I get other details I will reconsider. But so far that is all anyone knows.

Skater A sexually molested Skater C. That is also part of the information we know. We don't know what exactly she did, but due to the word used, we know there was a physical element - Otherwise, the same word would have been used to describe her actions as for Skater B's actions.
We also know that skater C is a minor, and most likely 16 or under.

 

[Joekaz]

This is Korea - A country where you can be incarcerated for defamation by publicly alleging facts. I think your opinion of political correctness is a very different one than the one they operate under.


Skater A sexually molested Skater C. That is also part of the information we know. We don't know what exactly she did, but due to the word used, we know there was a physical element - Otherwise, the same word would have been used to describe her actions as for Skater B's actions.
We also know that skater C is a minor, and most likely 16 or under.

The KSU is also part of an international sport that has to be aware of international opinions and getting into trouble with the ISU. You are right that we don't know at all what she did. We also don't know why he voluntarily went to their dorm. We also don't know what previous relationship there may be. But we do know skater A is also a teenager, so the age thing is overblown here. Everyone just needs to hold their horses and quit spewing venom for awhile.

 

[Jumping_Bean]

The KSU is also part of an international sport that has to be aware of international opinions and getting into trouble with the ISU. You are right that we don't know at all what she did. We also don't know why he voluntarily went to their dorm. We also don't know what previous relationship there may be. But we do know skater A is also a teenager, so the age thing is overblown here. Everyone just needs to hold their horses and quit spewing venom for awhile.

Like Skate Canada? Like Skate Australia? Like US Figure Skating? Like the French figure skating federation?
All of these organisations are part of the same international sport and are actually in countries where political correctness is much more of a thing (#MeToo movement ring any bells?) and still, they not only sat by pretty inactively in some cases of sexual abuse for a while but have also simultaneously continuously awarded abusive athletes and coaches - But I guess a 22-year-old sleeping with their 16-year old skater is only bad when the skater is female, and the coach should instead be rewarded for their success.

Their previous relationship doesn't matter, this is not 1992 when marital rape was legal in multiple states in the US. Knowing the likely age of the victim, if there was a sexual relationship before, that certainly does not make the two female skaters look better in this case.

Skater A is 19, B is (now) 20. I'm sorry but I am not that much older than them and I definitely still remember being 19 and 20. I certainly never did (or would have been interested in doing) anything even remotely sexual with a minor, especially one more than a year and a half away from turning 18 (which two of three possible victims are). Granted, I also did not drink, and I still don't, but that was also a choice the people in question could have easily made. If I put someone into hospital due to being an aggressive drunk, I'd still get charged, no?

 

[Amei]

People should not bring in their own personal hangups about sex and alcohol when judging others. Under Korean law, even if he was 19 himself and consented, it would still be illegal to have sex because 20 is their age of consent now. Using common sense is just as important as trying to follow laws to the letter in many cases. In the last 5 years the age of consent in Korea went from 13 to 16 to 20. Because other countries federations got heat for sweeping abuses under the rug is no reason for Korea to go overboard here.

What evidence do you have that Korea went overboard? As you alluded to other Federations (and I don't hear them really getting any heat) generally circle the wagon to protect top athletes and the fact that Korea didn't do that makes me think they have evidence of something that makes them incapable of ignoring/sweeping under the rug.