KSU Suspends Hae-in Lee and Young You

[Daniel1998]

Here is the sequence of events as I understand it:

Some time in 2023:
Haein and Skater C dated, and broke up due to parental pressure (unclear which side). At this point, Haein would have been 17-18. While Skater C's identity has not been officially revealed, if it is the skater whose name is being floated around most often, he would have been 14-15. The two skaters are three 'school years' apart.

During the National Training Camp in Italy (May 15-28, 2024):
May 20 (inferred from Haein's IG story): Haein asks Skater C to consider dating again while they're in Italy. They are three years apart, but due to birthdays, at this point Haein is 19 by international reckoning, no longer a minor, and Skater C is (possibly) 15.
May 21 (per Haein's IG story): Skater C agrees to start dating again. (This is a fact that Skater C has not contested.)
Between May 21 - May 24: The incident in question occurs, wherein Haein is involved in drinking, invites Skater C to her room and leaves a hickey on him. Skater B is also present and takes a picture of Haein (unclear of what).
May 24 (per Haein's IG story; she refers to this as 'the day Teacher saw the hickey mark', unclear what this refers to. Potentially, Skater C's teacher saw the hickey mark and asked about it, but this is not confirmed): Skater C asks Haein for them to be extra cautious and stop seeing each other in Italy, and to wait until they go back to Korea. Haein agrees. They both agree they are not breaking up.

After the Training Camp:
Between May 28 - June 14: Skater C reconsiders the relationship and contacts Haein to break it off.
June 10: First article comes out about an investigation into two female athletes drinking during the training camp in Italy and inviting a male junior athlete to their dorm.
June 14: Haein asks Skater C to consider beginning their secret relationship again; Skater C agrees.
June 21: Suspensions announced for Haein and Skater B due to allegations of sexual assault/harrassment, as well as a reprimand for Skater C.
June 25: Haein contacts Skater C to question him about the incident and collect evidence for the investigation. When Skater C realized this, he was psychologically shocked/rattled and is now receiving psychiatric therapy/treatment. (It is unclear if at this point, they were already broken up again or not.)
June 27 (morning): Haein releases a statement admitting to drinking but not to sexual assault.
June 27 (evening): Skater B releases a statement admitting to drinking and to having taken a photo of Haein, but denies that there was a situation in which anyone would feel sexually uncomfortable, and also denies that she showed the picture of Haein to Skater C.
June 27 (evening): Skater C releases a statement through lawyers saying he did not know what a hickey was, and while he asked Haein to try it, he was taken aback/flustered after it happened, so much so that he left the room.

 

[Mathman]

Sexual assault is a heinous felony; sexual harassment and intimidation is a societal evil.

But this particular incident – I don’t know, maybe I get bored easily – wouldn’t even make a good plot for an Archie, Betty and Veronica comic book. "I can’t see you any more because my parents are on my case." " OK, let’s sneak behind their backs." "No, we’ll have to break up." "No, let’s get back together."

Meanwhile three young lives lay in tatters.

 

[rabidline]

Here is the sequence of events as I understand it:

Some time in 2023:
Haein and Skater C dated, and broke up due to parental pressure (unclear which side). At this point, Haein would have been 17-18. While Skater C's identity has not been officially revealed, if it is the skater whose name is being floated around most often, he would have been 14-15. The two skaters are three 'school years' apart.

During the National Training Camp in Italy (May 15-28, 2024):
May 20 (inferred from Haein's IG story): Haein asks Skater C to consider dating again while they're in Italy. They are three years apart, but due to birthdays, at this point Haein is 19 by international reckoning, no longer a minor, and Skater C is (possibly) 15.
May 21 (per Haein's IG story): Skater C agrees to start dating again. (This is a fact that Skater C has not contested.)
Between May 21 - May 24: The incident in question occurs, wherein Haein is involved in drinking, invites Skater C to her room and leaves a hickey on him. Skater B is also present and takes a picture of Haein (unclear of what).
May 24 (per Haein's IG story; she refers to this as 'the day Teacher saw the hickey mark', unclear what this refers to. Potentially, Skater C's teacher saw the hickey mark and asked about it, but this is not confirmed): Skater C asks Haein for them to be extra cautious and stop seeing each other in Italy, and to wait until they go back to Korea. Haein agrees. They both agree they are not breaking up.

After the Training Camp:
Between May 28 - June 14: Skater C reconsiders the relationship and contacts Haein to break it off.
June 10: First article comes out about an investigation into two female athletes drinking during the training camp in Italy and inviting a male junior athlete to their dorm.
June 14: Haein asks Skater C to consider beginning their secret relationship again; Skater C agrees.
June 21: Suspensions announced for Haein and Skater B due to allegations of sexual assault/harrassment, as well as a reprimand for Skater C.
June 25: Haein contacts Skater C to question him about the incident and collect evidence for the investigation. When Skater C realized this, he was psychologically shocked/rattled and is now receiving psychiatric therapy/treatment. (It is unclear if at this point, they were already broken up again or not.)
June 27 (morning): Haein releases a statement admitting to drinking but not to sexual assault.
June 27 (evening): Skater B releases a statement admitting to drinking and to having taken a photo of Haein, but denies that there was a situation in which anyone would feel sexually uncomfortable, and also denies that she showed the picture of Haein to Skater C.
June 27 (evening): Skater C releases a statement through lawyers saying he did not know what a hickey was, and while he asked Haein to try it, he was taken aback/flustered after it happened, so much so that he left the room.

Thank you very much for making the timeline. I noticed "the day Teacher (Coach?) saw the hickey mark" and I suppose this is likely how everything started. What Haein did left a noticeable, physical mark on Skater C that led to questions, which likely led to revelations that the skaters were drinking, and subsequent investigations.

Setting aside the personal matters and relationships of the skaters, my perspective on this remains the same: once KFed was made aware that a misconduct might have happened in a training camp they organized, they had to act on it. They can't not act on it. This isn't just skaters fooling around in their own private time, KFed brought them to another country to train under their supervision, and most of the skaters they brought were minors. Drinking during the camp was already a misconduct worth several months' suspension based on their own past ruling on a similar case of speed skaters drinking during training camp. Regardless of the World Medalist and Olympian status of the figure skaters involved, KFed would contradict their own rules if they had made an exception on the drinking misconduct. I think in the future KFed themselves need to rethink this effort - this is part of them giving opportunities to skaters but they must be wiser when planning it.

The complicated thing is the personal relationships revealed in the fallout, and the sexual connotations of the action, however light it may be from the descriptions. This discussion has grown into the morality of the issue, the technicalities of age difference, and judgement of individual characters involved. I don't want to contribute too much into it.

All of the skaters involved are very young. One of them is still underage. I hope first and foremost he receives the help and support that he needs by the people around him. And for the others to face a fair appeal process and face the final punishments.

 

[moonvine]

Has anyone heard from @Ichatdelune? I admit, I am worried because this must be a blow (it was when the Australian mess blew, and I wasn't as attached to him as other skaters)

I have not and hope she is ok.

 

[Skating91]

Here is the sequence of events as I understand it:

Some time in 2023:
Haein and Skater C dated, and broke up due to parental pressure (unclear which side). At this point, Haein would have been 17-18. While Skater C's identity has not been officially revealed, if it is the skater whose name is being floated around most often, he would have been 14-15. The two skaters are three 'school years' apart.

During the National Training Camp in Italy (May 15-28, 2024):
May 20 (inferred from Haein's IG story): Haein asks Skater C to consider dating again while they're in Italy. They are three years apart, but due to birthdays, at this point Haein is 19 by international reckoning, no longer a minor, and Skater C is (possibly) 15.
May 21 (per Haein's IG story): Skater C agrees to start dating again. (This is a fact that Skater C has not contested.)
Between May 21 - May 24: The incident in question occurs, wherein Haein is involved in drinking, invites Skater C to her room and leaves a hickey on him. Skater B is also present and takes a picture of Haein (unclear of what).
May 24 (per Haein's IG story; she refers to this as 'the day Teacher saw the hickey mark', unclear what this refers to. Potentially, Skater C's teacher saw the hickey mark and asked about it, but this is not confirmed): Skater C asks Haein for them to be extra cautious and stop seeing each other in Italy, and to wait until they go back to Korea. Haein agrees. They both agree they are not breaking up.

After the Training Camp:
Between May 28 - June 14: Skater C reconsiders the relationship and contacts Haein to break it off.
June 10: First article comes out about an investigation into two female athletes drinking during the training camp in Italy and inviting a male junior athlete to their dorm.
June 14: Haein asks Skater C to consider beginning their secret relationship again; Skater C agrees.
June 21: Suspensions announced for Haein and Skater B due to allegations of sexual assault/harrassment, as well as a reprimand for Skater C.
June 25: Haein contacts Skater C to question him about the incident and collect evidence for the investigation. When Skater C realized this, he was psychologically shocked/rattled and is now receiving psychiatric therapy/treatment. (It is unclear if at this point, they were already broken up again or not.)
June 27 (morning): Haein releases a statement admitting to drinking but not to sexual assault.
June 27 (evening): Skater B releases a statement admitting to drinking and to having taken a photo of Haein, but denies that there was a situation in which anyone would feel sexually uncomfortable, and also denies that she showed the picture of Haein to Skater C.
June 27 (evening): Skater C releases a statement through lawyers saying he did not know what a hickey was, and while he asked Haein to try it, he was taken aback/flustered after it happened, so much so that he left the room.

The response to the hickey could not be envisaged by A.

Also, having a psychiatric breakdown in response to A questioning could not be envisaged as well. She's just been labeled a rapist and predator by the public and her career/life has been ruined by a hickey that C asked for, it's understandable that she contacted him presumably to find out what he said to the KSU.

Someone has lied or lied by omission, or maybe pressured by some overbearing people in their life to portray this a particular way, and now it is completely out of control. We'll find out who is lying, lying by omission, exaggerating in due course.

I've never come across such a thing in my life.

 

[LazyFuzai]

Here is the sequence of events as I understand it:

Some time in 2023:
Haein and Skater C dated, and broke up due to parental pressure (unclear which side). At this point, Haein would have been 17-18. While Skater C's identity has not been officially revealed, if it is the skater whose name is being floated around most often, he would have been 14-15. The two skaters are three 'school years' apart.

During the National Training Camp in Italy (May 15-28, 2024):
May 20 (inferred from Haein's IG story): Haein asks Skater C to consider dating again while they're in Italy. They are three years apart, but due to birthdays, at this point Haein is 19 by international reckoning, no longer a minor, and Skater C is (possibly) 15.
May 21 (per Haein's IG story): Skater C agrees to start dating again. (This is a fact that Skater C has not contested.)
Between May 21 - May 24: The incident in question occurs, wherein Haein is involved in drinking, invites Skater C to her room and leaves a hickey on him. Skater B is also present and takes a picture of Haein (unclear of what).
May 24 (per Haein's IG story; she refers to this as 'the day Teacher saw the hickey mark', unclear what this refers to. Potentially, Skater C's teacher saw the hickey mark and asked about it, but this is not confirmed): Skater C asks Haein for them to be extra cautious and stop seeing each other in Italy, and to wait until they go back to Korea. Haein agrees. They both agree they are not breaking up.

After the Training Camp:
Between May 28 - June 14: Skater C reconsiders the relationship and contacts Haein to break it off.
June 10: First article comes out about an investigation into two female athletes drinking during the training camp in Italy and inviting a male junior athlete to their dorm.
June 14: Haein asks Skater C to consider beginning their secret relationship again; Skater C agrees.
June 21: Suspensions announced for Haein and Skater B due to allegations of sexual assault/harrassment, as well as a reprimand for Skater C.
June 25: Haein contacts Skater C to question him about the incident and collect evidence for the investigation. When Skater C realized this, he was psychologically shocked/rattled and is now receiving psychiatric therapy/treatment. (It is unclear if at this point, they were already broken up again or not.)
June 27 (morning): Haein releases a statement admitting to drinking but not to sexual assault.
June 27 (evening): Skater B releases a statement admitting to drinking and to having taken a photo of Haein, but denies that there was a situation in which anyone would feel sexually uncomfortable, and also denies that she showed the picture of Haein to Skater C.
June 27 (evening): Skater C releases a statement through lawyers saying he did not know what a hickey was, and while he asked Haein to try it, he was taken aback/flustered after it happened, so much so that he left the room.

Now it make sense.So 3 years for Haien is a joke in this case since skater C keep contact with her and stupid hickey can't be that much a problem espiecially while in relationship.His mental just broke up under pressure of investigation + parents pressure most likely.Noe KSU need to rethink those punishments tbh.

 

[norwegianfairytale]

Now it make sense.So 3 years for Haien is a joke in this case since skater C keep contact with her and stupid hickey can't be that much a problem espiecially while in relationship.His mental just broke up under pressure of investigation + parents pressure most likely.Noe KSU need to rethink those punishments tbh.

Remember 3 years is not only for the hickey incident alone, but also for drinking. Someone suggested a couple of months for the drinking part alone given earlier suspensions for the same, let´s say suspension is 6 months for drinking and 2,5 years for the other incident.

It involves a minor. I think that is pretty reasonable or even low for what happen for unwanted physical touching towards a minor, since he didn´t consent/know what he was consenting to, it´s still pretty serious given it´s a minor and he wasn´t consenting, but it´s not one of the worst cases of SA. Let us still bear in mind that we don´t know all the details (and rightly shouldn´t).

If it had been something more than the hickey, more unwanted physical touching etc., the suspension would probably been lot a stricter, maybe even a life time ban.

That she´s an adult and he is a minor makes the case worse and the punishment even so. So that you think 3 years is very strict, you don´t understand that this is already lenient.

In some countries you can get up to 6 years of prison for sex between a 15 year old and 17 year old, simply because the 15 year old is under the age of consent (which is 16 in most countries). Yes even if they were in a relationship - and the 15 year old verbally said yes, if someone reports it, the 17 year old could get punished, because the youngest wasn´t old enough to consent legally - in other words, didn´t consent.

Again, how many times must it be repeated that relationship status is not relevant as long as the victim doesn´t consent? That it was just a hickey is not relevant, as long as he didn´t want the hickey.

IMO, I think it´s a chance that the suspension will possible be longer then 3 years because of the aftermath, because of the physical reaction skater C has experienced, and the added pressure/trauma caused by Haein sharing very intime and private messages in the public.

Let us just trust the trial will deal with the details and consider the right punishment with possible new information/proof that comes forward, no matter if the suspension ends up shorter or longer. They are the one with the details, the legal expertise etc.

 

[Dreamer57]

This sport has not much more problem than the other. Of course, figure skating is not a clean sport at all, but football (for exemple) is worst than figure skating by far (refering, corruption, sexual assault, politics...) and the difference with figure skating is a lot of dangerous person in football are not condamned

I would say abuse is a lot more prevalent in figure skating compared to the number of athletes in the sport. There is also the power imbalance in pairs and ice dance, where males are more 'valued' due to being harder to find. Add in the doping, allegations against coaches, students, PCS bias, lack of scoring appeal system, sometimes I wonder what keeps me following this sport...

 

[Karoltyna]

Now it make sense.So 3 years for Haien is a joke in this case since skater C keep contact with her and stupid hickey can't be that much a problem espiecially while in relationship.His mental just broke up under pressure of investigation + parents pressure most likely.Noe KSU need to rethink those punishments tbh

Did you miss the info about him being a minor, in fact legally unable to consent? Why would being in contact or realtionship matter? If you are in a relationship, you are obliged to what you partner wishes?

I would say abuse is a lot more prevalent in figure skating compared to the number of athletes in the sport. There is also the power imbalance in pairs and ice dance, where males are more 'valued' due to being harder to find. Add in the doping, allegations against coaches, students, PCS bias, lack of scoring appeal system, sometimes I wonder what keeps me following this sport...

Yep, thats me for past 10 years.

 

[Skating91]

Remember 3 years is not only for the hickey incident alone, but also for drinking. Someone suggested a couple of months for the drinking part alone given earlier suspensions for the same, let´s say suspension is 6 months for drinking and 2,5 years for the other incident.

I think in any other sport maybe the drinking would be a 1 game suspension, not sure if it would be anything for the hickey it wouldn't be classified as domestic abuse just a small misunderstanding.

It involves a minor. I think that is pretty reasonable or even low for what happen for unwanted physical touching towards a minor, since he didn´t consent/know what he was consenting to, it´s still pretty serious given it´s a minor and he wasn´t consenting, but it´s not one of the worst cases of SA. Let us still bear in mind that we don´t know all the details (and rightly shouldn´t).

In Korea a minor is capable of giving consent at age 13 to an 18 year old. This is for sexual intercourse, not merely a kiss on the neck from someone he was dating on and off, sending intimate message to, broke all the rules in order to meet with her in the female dorm. In Korea there is an assumption that even a 13 year old understands what sexual intercourse is given they are able to consent to sex, let alone a kiss or hickey.

The text messages show he asked for the kiss. He consented. He wanted to be kissed. If he was shocked, flustered, embarrassed by the kiss and ran from the room, that's how it goes in life and he will learn from the experience. It was only unwanted after it happened (and maybe because he was caught in the wrong dorm).

I understand he's 15, but I've sat through two years of being told 15 is old enough to be responsible for what you put into your body and accept adult consequences, 15 is old enough to be denied extra legal protection, 15 is old enough to know better, yet here we are painting as a helpless victim a 15 year old male who was off an on dating a skater several years older, exchanges intimate messages that gave A the idea there were mutual feelings, broke all the rules just to be with her in the female dorm, wanted the kiss. Then everything changes from the moment of the kiss. At some point C has to take some of the responsibility for leading A on. Then he's seemingly done a complete 180 and that has been told to the KSU paints A and B in the absolute worst light as monsters, and even something as innocuous as A calling up C asking for clarification of what he told the KSU was enough to send him into a psychiatric breakdown. These aren't normal responses. She can't be blamed for what seems like deep seated psychological issues that's causing someone's world to come crashing down over a kiss from an off and on girlfriend.

 

[Skating91]

I would say abuse is a lot more prevalent in figure skating compared to the number of athletes in the sport. There is also the power imbalance in pairs and ice dance, where males are more 'valued' due to being harder to find. Add in the doping, allegations against coaches, students, PCS bias, lack of scoring appeal system, sometimes I wonder what keeps me following this sport...

There's a 36 year old Japanese coach dating her 16 year old student, parading it in public. Unbelievable.

 

[Karoltyna]

I think in any other sport maybe the drinking would be a 1 game suspension, not sure if it would be anything for the hickey it wouldn't be classified as domestic abuse just a small misunderstanding.


In Korea a minor is capable of giving consent at age 13 to an 18 year old. This is for sexual intercourse, not merely a kiss on the neck from someone he was dating on and off, sending intimate message to, broke all the rules in order to meet with her in the female dorm. In Korea there is an assumption that even a 13 year old understands what sexual intercourse is given they are able to consent to sex, let alone a kiss or hickey.

The text messages show he asked for the kiss. He consented. He wanted to be kissed. If he was shocked, flustered, embarrassed by the kiss and ran from the room, that's how it goes in life and he will learn from the experience. It was only unwanted after it happened (and maybe because he was caught in the wrong dorm).

I understand he's 15, but I've sat through two years of being told 15 is old enough to be responsible for what you put into your body and accept adult consequences, 15 is old enough to be denied extra legal protection, 15 is old enough to know better, yet here we are painting as a helpless victim a 15 year old male who was off an on dating a skater several years older, exchanges intimate messages that gave A the idea there were mutual feelings, broke all the rules just to be with her in the female dorm, wanted the kiss. Then everything changes from the moment of the kiss. At some point C has to take some of the responsibility for leading A on. Then he's seemingly done a complete 180 and that has been told to the KSU paints A and B in the absolute worst light as monsters, and even something as innocuous as A calling up C asking for clarification of what he told the KSU was enough to send him into a psychiatric breakdown. These aren't normal responses. She can't be blamed for what seems like deep seated psychological issues that's causing someone's world to come crashing down over a kiss from an off and on girlfriend.

Your information about age of consent i Korea isn't acurate. It used to be 13, not anymore, now it's 16.

 

[fehervari]

It involves a minor. I think that is pretty reasonable or even low for what happen for unwanted physical touching towards a minor, since he didn´t consent/know what he was consenting to, it´s still pretty serious given it´s a minor and he wasn´t consenting, but it´s not one of the worst cases of SA. Let us still bear in mind that we don´t know all the details (and rightly shouldn´t).

he's (probably) a 15 yo boy, not a 5. let's not exaggerate. I happened to be a 15 year old boy and I remember how I felt about touching girls and alcohol. nothing special. I longed for them, just like all my contemporaries.. on the other hand, it's very big mistake to view this story as a case of two adult women and a minor boy.

 

[Skating91]

Your information about age of consent i Korea isn't acurate. It used to be 13, not anymore, now it's 16.

For 19 and under it is 13 if what I read is correct.

 

[LolaSkatesInJapan]

he's (probably) a 15 yo boy, not a 5. let's not exaggerate. I happened to be a 15 year old boy and I remember how I felt about touching girls and alcohol. nothing special. exactly like my contemporaries. on the other hand, it's very big mistake to view this story as a case of two adult women and a minor boy.

Precisely. They’re treating a 15 year old teenager as a 5 year old child.
If the issue was adult female vs child, then yes, ban immediately, ban for eternity if possible,
But these sound more like 2 horny teenagers acting like so. They were caught? Ground them, reprehend them but not destroy one’s career only because of things teenagers do.

 

[LazyFuzai]

Remember 3 years is not only for the hickey incident alone, but also for drinking. Someone suggested a couple of months for the drinking part alone given earlier suspensions for the same, let´s say suspension is 6 months for drinking and 2,5 years for the other incident.

It involves a minor. I think that is pretty reasonable or even low for what happen for unwanted physical touching towards a minor, since he didn´t consent/know what he was consenting to, it´s still pretty serious given it´s a minor and he wasn´t consenting, but it´s not one of the worst cases of SA. Let us still bear in mind that we don´t know all the details (and rightly shouldn´t).

If it had been something more than the hickey, more unwanted physical touching etc., the suspension would probably been lot a stricter, maybe even a life time ban.

That she´s an adult and he is a minor makes the case worse and the punishment even so. So that you think 3 years is very strict, you don´t understand that this is already lenient.

In some countries you can get up to 6 years of prison for sex between a 15 year old and 17 year old, simply because the 15 year old is under the age of consent (which is 16 in most countries). Yes even if they were in a relationship - and the 15 year old verbally said yes, if someone reports it, the 17 year old could get punished, because the youngest wasn´t old enough to consent legally - in other words, didn´t consent.

Again, how many times must it be repeated that relationship status is not relevant as long as the victim doesn´t consent? That it was just a hickey is not relevant, as long as he didn´t want the hickey.

IMO, I think it´s a chance that the suspension will possible be longer then 3 years because of the aftermath, because of the physical reaction skater C has experienced, and the added pressure/trauma caused by Haein sharing very intime and private messages in the public.

Let us just trust the trial will deal with the details and consider the right punishment with possible new information/proof that comes forward, no matter if the suspension ends up shorter or longer. They are the one with the details, the legal expertise etc.

You realize he never say no about getting hickey right? Because he run away from room doesn't mean he say no.He answer that he didn't know what is this.Thats big difference.And then after this accident he accept to date again.So what are you even talking about? His mental issue are all out pressure not sexual harassment (most likely as it make only sense unless there more from Haien pushing side).

 

[LazyFuzai]

Did you miss the info about him being a minor, in fact legally unable to consent? Why would being in contact or realtionship matter? If you are in a relationship, you are obliged to what you partner wishes?

Yep, thats me for past 10 years.

He was minor,but first he never said no, second thing he agreed to date again after accident.Doesnt look like Haien was that bad and it was only a hickey... Cmon.And it's not him who reported anything right? That's mean he has no problem with it.Because everything goes out he most likely got pressure from parents and people that investigate it.Thats all.

 

[saine]

You realize he never say no about getting hickey right? Because he run away from room doesn't mean he say no.He answer that he didn't know what is this.Thats big difference.And then after this accident he accept to date again.So what are you even talking about? His mental issue are all out pressure not sexual harassment (most likely as it make only sense unless there more from Haien pushing side).

He didn't understand what it was. If he didn't know, it would be a big shock to find out what it was. It doesn't matter if he agreed initially.

And for the relationship after the incident, from his statement he asked her to stop contacting him. She asked him for a secret relationship afterwards, after he asked for no contact. She then talked about the 'secret' relationship on the news. She released private messages that are being shared on social media. That's not acceptable behaviour on her part and it is causing further distress to him.

 

[Joekaz]

For 19 and under it is 13 if what I read is correct.

It's 13 if you are under 19. She was until 2 months ago. In 3 months he will be 16 and it will be ok again.

 

[Joekaz]

There's a 36 year old Japanese coach dating her 16 year old student, parading it in public. Unbelievable.

16 is age of consent and parent is ok with it.