Ladies Free Skate

[Doggygirl]

i don't think it's a conspiracy...i think the judges just love her skating. i don't really GET her...to be corny...her skating doesn't make my heart SING...so sometimes it seems to me that she's ovem,arked...when i'm sure it's legitimately judged.

ITA, and that was my point. It's the judges job to judge according to the rules. As fans, we have style preferences and other things that factor into our "favorites." I'm sure the judges have some of these preferences too, but they also have an obligation to be objective (and I'm sure some are more effective than others in the objectivity department). As fans, we have NO obligation to be objective, and IMO we're far less objective than the judges much of the time. But as fans, that's our right!! I just try to bring sanity to the seeming disparity between the score sheet facts and the fan subjectivity sometimes. And I'm sure to an irritating degree.

DG

 

[CDMM1991]

ITA, and that was my point. It's the judges job to judge according to the rules. As fans, we have style preferences and other things that factor into our "favorites." I'm sure the judges have some of these preferences too, but they also have an obligation to be objective (and I'm sure some are more effective than others in the objectivity department). As fans, we have NO obligation to be objective, and IMO we're far less objective than the judges much of the time. But as fans, that's our right!! I just try to bring sanity to the seeming disparity between the score sheet facts and the fan subjectivity sometimes. And I'm sure to an irritating degree.

DG

I find the score sheet analyzations of you and Mathman to be very informative and interesting! The time you devote to giving us this information is very well-spent and I can assure you that we appreciate it.

P.S. After TEB we're both in the top ten for the Grand Prix Team Challenge

 

[Doggygirl]

IP.S. After TEB we're both in the top ten for the Grand Prix Team Challenge

Hee hee!! I noticed that. My aren't we the smart ones!

 

[Frau Muller]

Just reading results now...

HA! HA! HA! FABULOUS job, Mao Asada. And 2nd-best LP for Arakawa? Sweet. Can't wait to watch this on ESPN and listen to the biased American announcers stumble and stutter.

 

[Doggygirl]

Just reading results now...

HA! HA! HA! FABULOUS job, Mao Asada. And 2nd-best LP for Arakawa? Sweet. Can't wait to watch this on ESPN and listen to the biased American announcers stumble and stutter.

I suspect you are right.

 

[hockeyfan228]

Volchkova had surgery earlier this year.

 

[Rgirl]

Add me for a big THANK YOU to Mathman and Doggygirl for their analyses of the scoresheets, comparisons of scores among skaters, and comparisons among competitions. Now ain't this more fun than 6.0? Okay, no tomato throwing.

The comments on Sasha are based on her performance of "R&J" at Campbell's as well as her "Dark Eyes" SP and "Nutcracker" LP at Nationals and Worlds in '05.

Obviously the following, except for stated facts, is all JMO. When Sasha did Tarasova's B&W "Swan Lake" I thought she was finally turning the corner at least in terms of depth of choreography and sophisticated use of music. Tarasova took cuts from "Swan Lake" I felt as if I'd never heard before. I almost didn't think that was possible. It was very tight choreography, meaning everything had a purpose. An element was where it was in terms of both the music and the arc of the program for a reason. I felt then that if Sasha could also work with a good technical coach on her jumps, edging, stroking, etc. that she could indeed be a force in figure skating, and I hadn't felt that until then. But since leaving Tarasova, even though her jump technique improved while she was with Robin Wagner, the improvements left Sasha as soon as she left RW.

Since being back with Nicks, I feel Sasha has become the very thing I initially criticized Mao Asada for: too light. I actually think Sasha was stronger in general in '02 when she had more muscle mass. I looked at my '02 tape and maybe I'm just seeing what I expected to see, but it seems like her stroking had more power and she was able to get down into her knees more. She had a lot of technical problems then, which she has winnowed down over the years, but she hasn't made the changeover from "contender" to "threat" the way Kristi Yamaguchi did when she won Worlds in '01, or Nancy Kerrigan when she overhauled her entire strategy after dropping from 1st after the SP to 5th overall at the '03 Worlds, to cite just two examples. Over the last two years, I think Sasha's gone back to looking as if she's skating on top of the ice instead of down into it.

The more I watch Asada (her COC performances on tape) the more I see that she has everything Christie Ness, Kristi Yamaguchi's competitive coach, has said a skater needs anatomically in order to be a great skater: She's short and doesn't look as if she's going to have a 5-inch growth spurt. She's naturally thin. (Sorry to sound like a broken record, but I hate the way Sasha has dieted down to an unnecessarily low body weight. I think it's hurting rather than helping her.) Asada has good muscle mass. And she has a slight bow in her lower legs.

When I first heard Ness say that slightly bowed legs are an asset for a figure skater, I thought it was fascinating but wondered why. To make a long investigation short, it's basically why old-fashioned egg beaters rotate so well. The beaters bow out for a reason. Irina has bowed legs too, though on her it's more pronounced. On Asada, you have to really look. Focus especially on the shape of her tibias. It's very far from the whole ball of wax, but having slightly bowed legs can make a good jumper a great jumper, with proper training, natch.

Of course having the right anatomical cards is only part of what's needed. Except for her flutz, which Sasha also has, and which I think Asada could fix quite easily, her jump technique is rock solid. Right now I'm not concerned about Asada's choreography; she's sort of like the debutante whose main purpose is to make a good impression. But I do think Gezando's suggestion of going to "Lori Nichol training camp" is a great one. I also think Leeann Miller is excellent at working with the heart of a skater to bring depth to the skater's presentation and choreographing programs that bring out the skater's strengths, both technically and emotionally.

As for Sasha, with last season's "Nutcracker" (snore) and this season's Rota, as opposed to Prokofiev, "Romeo and Juliet"; the uninspired and uninteresting choreography; moving towards lighter rather than deeper skating; and perhaps even regressing on her jump technique, I feel as if Sasha "mediocre'd" herself down rather than using her experiences with Tarasova and Wagner to pull herself up from good to possibly great.

Now don't anybody kill me just yet, but I think a lot of the problem is what I call the SSS: the SoCal Superficiality Syndrome. Not that Sasha or Michelle or any other SoCal skater are superficial people; it's just that they've lived all their lives in a cultural vacuum and unless they have what I call the "Warhol gene" ie, the gene that makes iconoclastic artists, musicians, politicians, scientists, or whatever, out of people born into places where the greatest cultural influence on them is the local mall or even less. Sasha lived most of her teenage years as a mall rat. Whatever is pretty is good. Whatever challenges one's aesthetics is bad. I think it's even affected Michelle, who pretty much went to warhorse music after all those years of glorious music chosen by Lori Nichol.

Tarasova made warhorse "Swan Lake" into something fresh and dynamic, but Sasha didn't get how enormous the difference was between TAT's "SL" and Robin Wagner's "SL." Of course, Robin Wagner didn't get it either. But then, Long Island is the SoCal of the East Coast.

I've always liked Sasha's line and used to love her attack, but the latter seems to have wimped out over the last two years as well. I had hoped to see her solve her technical problems and up the ante in the sophistication of her music and choreography, but that hasn't happened. Don't get me wrong. Sasha, in general, is 10 times the skater she was in '02. The problem, IMO, is that she's still an uncompleted jigsaw puzzle. Too many essential pieces are scattered about. She hasn't pulled it all together to make herself a complete picture or, sorry to mix metaphors, a complete force.

OTOH, maybe Sasha needs to be kicked in the butt by a 15-year-old. Maybe the silver medals at the last two Worlds and her early success with the COP made her feel she was doing all the right things, or at least most of them. Of course I'm curious to see TEB on TV--the downloads drive me nuts and the quality of the picture isn't worth the trouble--but I'm especially curious to see Sasha's spiral sequence next to Asada's. I completely understand why a spiral sequence that uses the full Beillman position, especially with the speed and depth of edges Irina has, along with a front extended spiral and an arabesque spiral, would get a Level 4. As I've said previously, with both hands on the blade, going full speed, on a deep edge, there is virtually no room for error. Without perfect centering or by catching the blade on a small rut in the ice, the skater either has to let go of the blade so she can balance with her arms and leg or, more likely, she will have to go down and she will be going down hard.

However, the cross Beillman position Asada uses, ie, right hand catching blade of left leg or vice versa, doesn't seem to me to require anywhere near the skill or flexibility that the full Beillman does, nor does it have anywhere near the splat danger that the full Beillman spiral does. So I'm curious to see the comparison between Asada's Level 4 spiral sequence and Sasha's Level 3, which I'm assuming is the same one she used at Campbell's.

I'm not happy seeing programs turn into Beillman exhibitions, but I'm optimistic, or perhaps just stupid, that those who work on the COP will work this out. Maybe the ladies need a "Zayak" rule for Beillmans, such as a skater can only repeat the full Beillman position or Beillman variations so many times in a program. I don't know. Something, or Beillman me out!

I'm not dissing Asada because I haven't seen TEB yet. I know the spiral sequence Sasha used at Campbell's got a Level 4 from the "cheese" panel of judges. Someone remind me who actually assigns the levels on non-jump elements. Is it the technical specialist, the caller, or the judges?

From the way I've seen Sasha skate over the past two years and at this year's Campbell's, I don't think she is anywhere near good enough to win the OGM. She may not even be good enough to medal. Right now, either she needs to recover fully from the injury, get in better shape, or make some serious changes to her stategy to have a good chance at the bronze. IMO, if she gets a "real" choreographer, someone to whom she is willing to hand her heart over to, one that she will trust to choose the music, and work with a coach who is skilled in teaching the technical demands of today's figure skating, she might have a "late blooming" career like Irina and Arakawa. If she is sorely disappointed at this season's Olympics and Worlds, we'll have to see how she reacts to the prospect of another four years of intensive training and competing.

I meant to talk more about Shizuka, but I'm just so thrilled with her right now, even though she's come in 3rd at her GP events, her LP is absolutely the best I've seen this season. It fits her like a glove, she skates it magnificently, even with doubling the flip (I think) midway through the program and getting dinged for under rotations on the 3/3s. These things I have no doubt she will fix.

But the main thing I wanted to say about Arakawa is that she, even more so than Irina, is such an incredible model of quiet endurance and determination. IIRC, she spent five years in the "twilight zone" of both Japanese and World skating. Not even going to Worlds for I forget how many years. Even right before she left Richard Callahagn for Tarasova, her spin positions were weak, she didn't hold her positions long enough, she seemed to have a poor sense of how her body looked in space relative to how it felt. That was only about 18 months ago and my god, look at the difference! She always had great flow, speed, and edging, but now her jumps, spins, and positions either are or are close to being the best in the biz. I don't know if she can surpass Irina, but I find her whole journey both thrilling and inspiring.

Okay, is there a point to all this? I guess they are just ruminations on things that have been brewing about Shizza and Sasha, who I liked equally about two years ago, but who have traveled such different paths. I've been so excited with Shizza's progress, despite her poor showing at '05 Worlds, and disappointed with Sasha's lack of progress. Irina I've loved since minute one and that's all she wrote. Despite getting off on the wrong blade with Asada's SP, I'm getting that feeling in my tummy that something great is likely to happen with her, which would be so wonderful for Japan since the country, from everything I've heard and seen, really, really loves its figure skaters. And since Midori Ito, they've had a long run of good or even great, but ultimately inconsistant skaters that I would love to see Shizuka show the whole world how truly beautiful she is, followed up by Asada. who seems to have the very real potential to be a once in a generation skater.

Irina or Shizza, I'll be thrilled. Sasha (sigh) although I hope this is a slump, I think the truth is that although she has made excellent progress in certain areas of her skating, she still hasn't solved the problem of what I call the "rats on her ship." They are the little or big mistakes that scurry in and scurry out of her programs but are always there, just like rats on a ship. Even the couple of times NYMKfan pointed out when she skated clean, it's like you know they're still there, but just down below deck for that program.

Penultimate thing: Kimmie. I saw her live last winter with COI when she skated a very curvy "round" program--big, open, curved armes; long, stretched lines. I found her to be a surprisingly commanding skater, yet still with a calm about her that I really liked a lot. I think this "walk like an Egyptian" program is the worst thing her choreographers could have done for her. It completely diminishes her on the ice. JMO, but am glad I was able to see her live, even though it was show skating. I'm not counting Kimmie out. I think with the right choreography, she has real depth.

Final thing: I know Gezando will know this and I'm hoping she'll answer if not for me for all the GSers who I'm sure are also confused about Shizuka's music. ESPN, that bastion of classical music expertise, lists Arawkawa's LP music as "Chopin Concerto #1." But the other day Gezando noted how glad she was Tarasova chose to use variation #18, IIRC, instead of several other ones, plus something about "the rhaphsody." I'm reading and writing a lot of different things right now and can't keep anything straight, so apologies in advance if I have this all wrong. All I want to know is, what is the exact title of Shizuka's LP music? And if Gezando knows the artist and conductor, I'm sure many people would appreciate that information too.

POEM: TEB I'm dying to see!

Rgirl

Whoops. WAY too long. Sorry.

 

[hockeyfan228]

Since being back with Nicks, I feel Sasha has become the very thing I initially criticized Mao Asada for: too light

I watched her LP program with such mixed feelings: on the one hand, I kept thinking "This is not a strong enough program to beat the best at their best, especially in an Olympic year, which is suppposed to be Slutskaya's and Arakawa's last competition and they're brining the big guns." Even Liashenko picked a program and a costume that she looks great in. I felt the same way about Rochette's programs, both of them. But while the music goes against the grain of Rochette's skating, which is powerful, the voice on my other shoulder was gaga with the smoothness which which she Cohen skated the program. It is a very measured, patient program, and is quite lovely live. Even if she upgraded the elements, though -- I can't remember Campbell's, but I remember thinking this is the least impressive spiral sequence I've seen her do -- and gave the in-betweens a bit more "oomph" and power -- which she is perfectly capable of doing -- I'm still not sure this program is a beast slayer. I think she'll need not only mistakes from everyone else, but to skate this last, preferably after one of the lower-ranked among the final six tries to make a "splash" and falters.

When I first heard Ness say that slightly bowed legs are an asset for a figure skater, I thought it was fascinating but wondered why. To make a long investigation short, it's basically why old-fashioned egg beaters rotate so well. The beaters bow out for a reason. Irina has bowed legs too, though on her it's more pronounced. On Asada, you have to really look. Focus especially on the shape of her tibias. It's very far from the whole ball of wax, but having slightly bowed legs can make a good jumper a great jumper, with proper training, natch.

You must see this girl in person. The rhythm of her jumps is phenomenal: up, whirr, whirr, whirr, and down like a feather. (Maybe like an eggbeater ) When she went into her 3A approach, which was right in front of where I was sitting, I could not believe that she could make it around three times, especially since she didn't seem to overpower or lurch her way up, and her speed going into it was measured. I think that may be one of her secrets: the entire jump has rhythm, including going in and out of it, on her own time, and without any lurches. She seems very in tune with her internal timing. (Very Zen.) Only her lutz had a long entry.

Tarasova made warhorse "Swan Lake" into something fresh and dynamic, but Sasha didn't get how enormous the difference was between TAT's "SL" and Robin Wagner's "SL." Of course, Robin Wagner didn't get it either. But then, Long Island is the SoCal of the East Coast.

I'm in a cybercafe in London, and I've had to hide under the little cubicle so that no one here can tell whose rolling on the floor laughing

Final thing: I know Gezando will know this and I'm hoping she'll answer if not for me for all the GSers who I'm sure are also confused about Shizuka's music. ESPN, that bastion of classical music expertise, lists Arawkawa's LP music as "Chopin Concerto #1." But the other day Gezando noted how glad she was Tarasova chose to use variation #18, IIRC, instead of several other ones, plus something about "the rhaphsody." I'm reading and writing a lot of different things right now and can't keep anything straight, so apologies in advance if I have this all wrong. All I want to know is, what is the exact title of Shizuka's LP music? And if Gezando knows the artist and conductor, I'm sure many people would appreciate that information too.
.

I've heard it mentioned that it's not only the 1st Chopin Concerto in the LP, but I don't know them enough to tell. Variation ~18 is from Rachmaninoff's "Rhapsody on a Theme of Paganini," which is her SP music, along with a couple of other variations from the same piece. It's the big sweeping theme that's on all of the "Greatest Classical Masterpieces" compilations.

 

[nymkfan51]

I love your long posts Rgirl!!!

I so agree with you about Shizuka. I adore everything about her ... she just needs to solve this problem of under-rotated jumps ... she's getting killed in the scoring because of it.

And I also think you may be right about Sasha.

I'm still holding out some hope that Michelle has 2 gems left in her ... where they will land her I don't even care about anymore.

 

[gezando]

music choices

The short answer:
Arakawa skated to Rhapsody/ variation of a theme by Paganini for her sp, and a symphonic transcription of Chopin's piano concerto no 1 for her lp

In COC sp thread I said

I think Irina's athleticism and her unitard would make Tomaso de Celano turn in his grave shouting bravo!!! She won hands down. Musically, it is boring, how many Dies Irae repeats can her choreographer feed into those 2 minutes.

Arakawa deserved to be third. I am grateful to TT for choosing variation #18 and not variation # 7, 10 or 22 from the rhapsody, therefore sparing me from listening any further abuse of Celano's Dies Irae.

Background of why I said I was grateful to TT for not choosing the Dies Irae theme. I have to talk about Irina's music choice first. On the record, Irina skated to Lizst Totetanz (dance of death). Lizst composed this piano piece by borrowing the tune / melody theme of Dies Irae. Thomas de Celano 1200 - 1255 was the original composer of this plain chant piece Dies Irae (day of wrath).

http://graham.main.nc.us/~bhammel/diesirae.html


Dies Irae is one of the most sacred pieces in the Catholic liturgy. Over the years TMTC too many to count composers, e.g. Lizst, Berlioz, Saint Saens,Rachmaninoff etc had borrowed the tune of this piece and made variations out of it. In fact they loved to turn this sacred piece into something scarry, like Totentanz, Dance Macarbe. Berlioz used the tune of Dies Irae in his symphony Fantastique about a poet's love turn into murderous rage towards his beloved. (Julia Robert's Sleeping with the enemy used the Dies Irae inspired portion of sym Fantastique as one of the scariest moment in the movie) Anyway back to Irina's sp music. Instead of using Lizst Totentanz as orignally wrote for piano , she used a symphonic version, and in Irina's sp, the entire 2 mins were just a symphonic repeat of the Dies Irae tune, IMO why bother to call it Totentanz. I am not a Lizst fan, but I speculate Lizst was showing off, how well he could do by turning a simple plainchant tune into a bravura show of force for a solo piano. I guess Irina turned this into a musular show of force of her skating LOL

Dies Irae as a plain chant is one of the most spiritual pieces, Dies Irae as orchestrated by Berlioz is one of the most wacky, scarry dramatic pieces, but whoever orchestrated this one for Irina was neither making it spiritual nor wacky, IMO just simply did a boring job. Irina's skating is so strong and powerful I have no argument with her placement, and I think Celano might turn in his grave and clap bravo.

Rachmaninoff also borrowed the Dies Irae tune in his variation of a theme of Paganini, specifically variation #3, 10 and 22. But having to listen to whoever was doing Irina's sp music, and IMO abusing Dies Irae, I was not in the mood of listening to any further variation or abuse of this tune anymore. That is why I said I was glad that TT chose variation #18 (same music theme in Christopher Reeves movie somewhere in time). In variation no 18, technically Rachmaninoff reversed Paganini's 5 notes theme from top to bottom, so if Paganini's orignal 5 notes were e.g A,B,C,D and E, Rachmaninoff made it E,D,C,B and A.

Arakawa's lp derive the tune, melody from Chopin Piano concerto #1, of course in this case there is no piano, just someone took the melody of Chopin PC 1 and orchestrated that. If you look back to Lucindah Ruh's competitive program, the very first year she turned pro, she used Chopin PC 1 (with piano and orchestra). In the process of turning Chopin's piano concerto into something symphonic, IMO all that is poetic and lyric about this piece is totally deleted. In fact the commentators called it dramatic. LOL

I guess it common for skaters to not use the pieces as originally scored, in this case Irina and Shizuka, also Arakawa used a techno version of swan lake a few years ago e.g.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Gezando - You are breaking down my smart *** knowledge of music appreciation 101. thank you, I just thought Variation on a Theme of Paganini was made up background music for Moira Shearer in an old movie which I think was called "The story of 3 loves".

Thanks Gez.

As for the competition: there is Shiz; there is Sash; but there is a little teenager that tugs at judges' hearts. It's almost a given.

Joe

 

[Rgirl]

I watched her LP program with such mixed feelings: on the one hand, I kept thinking "This is not a strong enough program to beat the best at their best, especially in an Olympic year, which is suppposed to be Slutskaya's and Arakawa's last competition and they're brining the big guns." Even Liashenko picked a program and a costume that she looks great in. I felt the same way about Rochette's programs, both of them. But while the music goes against the grain of Rochette's skating, which is powerful, the voice on my other shoulder was gaga with the smoothness which which she Cohen skated the program. It is a very measured, patient program, and is quite lovely live. Even if she upgraded the elements, though -- I can't remember Campbell's, but I remember thinking this is the least impressive spiral sequence I've seen her do -- and gave the in-betweens a bit more "oomph" and power -- which she is perfectly capable of doing -- I'm still not sure this program is a beast slayer. I think she'll need not only mistakes from everyone else, but to skate this last, preferably after one of the lower-ranked among the final six tries to make a "splash" and falters.

Your live analysis is so very much appreciated. I remember Campbell's, but only because I only have it on tape and have rewatched it going, "Blah." Your analysis has me of two minds. On the one hand, I've seen "blah" programs turn into "WOW!" programs with a bit more oomph and power at the right places. OTOH, I don't think Sasha's Rota "R&J" is one of those programs that is going to benefit enough from those things to really make a difference.

Between the ages of 15 and 26 I choreographed more dance pieces and skating programs than I have posts on GS. Okay, not that many, but lots. However, I probably saw that many pieces of choreography both in dance and skating. My point is there are elements of form, timing, shape, speed, etc. that we all know go into a piece of choreography. You can see or do a piece with all the "right" elements and sometimes it just lies there flat. Sometimes you can retool, sometimes retooling just keeps making it worse, and sometimes you just have to chuck it. Unfortunately, during an Olympic season, skaters don't have the luxury of doing a new program. And the only good thing Sasha has to go back to is Tarasova's "Swan Lake." I don't even know who has the rights to that choreography. There's a question.

I remember being in choreography classes, seeing somone go up, perform their choreography, and literally seeing nothing. It was the weirdest thing, but the guy, in this case, would have been better off if he'd just walked in a circle than what he did. At the time I thought, "I bet the CIA could use this. Move a certain way and disappear in front of everybody."

Seriously, that's how I feel about Sasha's "R&J." It just kind of fades from the eye. There's no strong theme or highlight moves to hook you, to pull you in. And I'm sorry, but you just don't use the Muzak version of "Romeo and Juliet" if you want to skate with the big dogs at the Olympics. Okay, Sasha doesn't know the difference between Rota and Prokofiev (my preference) or Tchaikovsky. But Nicks should know the difference. At Campbell's I thought, "Not as awful as I thought it would be," but it was such a loser competition, it probably looked okay only by comparison.

Bottom line: Sasha needs to have skated a program a lot the same way over and over to have a chance of not falling. She either skates a snoozer program as well as she can or she and Nicks or somebody goose the thing up and Sasha skates it with a major flub. Or she surprises the hell out of us all. Statistically, I have to say the Rota "R&J" is a loser. If she gets the bronze at the Olympics, it will be a gift, unless, as I said, she surprises the hell out of us.

You must see this girl in person. The rhythm of her jumps is phenomenal: up, whirr, whirr, whirr, and down like a feather. (Maybe like an eggbeater ) When she went into her 3A approach, which was right in front of where I was sitting, I could not believe that she could make it around three times, especially since she didn't seem to overpower or lurch her way up, and her speed going into it was measured. I think that may be one of her secrets: the entire jump has rhythm, including going in and out of it, on her own time, and without any lurches. She seems very in tune with her internal timing. (Very Zen.) Only her lutz had a long entry.

I would love to see Asada in person, you have no idea. However, I can relate, I think, to what you're talking about. The first year Ilia Kulik was with SOI, my friend and I by sheer luck got on-ice seats at the far end of the rink, right in the middle of the row. Kulik starts his first program and, OMG, he's going to do his 3Axel at our end of the rink. He took off about eight seats to my left, his skates were about even with my head at the peak of the parabola, and he landed about 8 seats to my right. Everything you said about Asada, the ease, the rhythm, the Zen. This guy couldn't lurch if he tried. And he was only about 10 feet in front of me in the air. It is among the top five things I've seen humans do in my life. But to see a young woman do it, man, I would kill. Like Terry Gannon said when Susie Wynne pointed out that since a 3/2/2 combo gets as many points as a 3Axel, why do the 3Axel, "For the glory. Susie."

I'm in a cybercafe in London, and I've had to hide under the little cubicle so that no one here can tell whose rolling on the floor laughing

I see you are as familiar with Ronkonkoma, Long Island and the fabulous fashions thereof as you are the Venice Beach boardwalk and shopping on Melrose. Hockeyfan, you certainly do get around.

I've heard it mentioned that it's not only the 1st Chopin Concerto in the LP, but I don't know them enough to tell. Variation ~18 is from Rachmaninoff's "Rhapsody on a Theme of Paganini," which is her SP music, along with a couple of other variations from the same piece. It's the big sweeping theme that's on all of the "Greatest Classical Masterpieces" compilations.

Thanks, Hockeyfan. I had misread Gezando's other post, but now it all makes sense. EDITED TO ADD: Just saw Gezando's post. Many thanks, Gezando. I was going to say that was the cherry on top of the sundae, but I think that was the sundae under the cherry. Great, interesting, and informative explanation. BTW, I loved Shizza's techno "Swan Lake." Went around humming it for months. I guess sometimes variations work for some people and sometimes they don't.

Rgirl

 

[Ptichka]

RGirl, I agree with you on Sasha. For a while, she used to be my favorite skater, but her last two seasons have been disappointing. You may also have a point about S Cal. It does annoy me that in her interviews Sasha appears so, well, shallow.

I share you excitement about Shizuka. However, I am not sure it's realistic to expect on Olympic medal from a skater who could not place in GPF.

 

[Rgirl]

I love your long posts Rgirl!!!

I so agree with you about Shizuka. I adore everything about her ... she just needs to solve this problem of under-rotated jumps ... she's getting killed in the scoring because of it.

And I also think you may be right about Sasha.

I'm still holding out some hope that Michelle has 2 gems left in her ... where they will land her I don't even care about anymore.

Aw, thanks, NYMK. I pulled this stuff from emails I'd sent to various people over the past month. I knew it was long but I didn't think it was THAT long.

You know, that "Preview Post" option fools you, at least it does me, because the text is wider in "Preview" than it is on the forum. I look at it in "Preview" and think, "It's long, but not as bad as I thought. Anyway, I'm just too tired to edit it."

Then when I saw it on the thread I said a word I can't say here.

I know what you mean about Michelle. At this point, just have her be the one everybody remembers. Or else a miracle.

Rgirl

 

[Rgirl]

RGirl, I agree with you on Sasha. For a while, she used to be my favorite skater, but her last two seasons have been disappointing. You may also have a point about S Cal. It does annoy me that in her interviews Sasha appears so, well, shallow.

I share you excitement about Shizuka. However, I am not sure it's realistic to expect on Olympic medal from a skater who could not place in GPF.

Re your first paragraph, I actually did edit out a paragraph from that monster post about how I wished figure skaters would get at least some education in music, dance, humanities, something besides fashion and make-up, which are fine. But music, dance, and humanities don't have commercials, TV shows, and billboards all designed to take over their minds and parents' credit cards.

About Shizuka and the GPF. It's been an unusually funky GPS. Except for '05, since fall of '02, Shizza would start slow and end strong at Worlds. Besides, does anybody really believe Elena Sokolova is more deserving to be in the GPF than Arakawa? Even if they do, I think Shizza was at the mercy of the draw. If she wanted to do the GPF, it was bad luck. If she didn't, it was good luck. If the Japanese Federation use Shizza's two third place finishes as an indication that she should not go to the Olympics, they're crazy. I like Fumie, but the poor thing has a groin injury and there's just no skating around that. Onda is offa. That leaves Mao Asada, who is too young to go to the Olympics, according to ISU rules. However, Terry Gannon said during ESPN coverage of COC that if Asada made it to the GPF the JF would take Asada's eligibility for the Olympics up with the IOC. Asada is too young by 86 days.

If Asada is given an exemption, goes to the Olympics, and wins the OGM, then that would be four Olympics in a row in which the ladies OGM was won by a 15 or 16 year old, and twice that it was won by a skater in her first season of Sr. Ladies skating. I'm all for encouraaging exceptional talent, but I think the more we see of Asada the more we'll see of her weaknesses. Right now the JF is doing exactly what Mathman said was a great strategy: "Hey, look at us. We've got the best skater in the world and she's not even old enough to go to the Olympics! Take THAT great big Western power country!"

Like I said, Shizza or Irina, I'm happy.

Rgirl

 

[Ptichka]

Re your first paragraph, I actually did edit out a paragraph from that monster post about how I wished figure skaters would get at least some education in music, dance, humanities, something besides fashion and make-up, which are fine.

I remember an interview with Anton Sikhuralidze when he talked about how he and Elena were different from Salle and Pelletier. Rather than talking about technical differences in preparation, he talked about how Moskvina would take him and Elena to theaters and museums to get inspired about upcoming programs.

 

[gkelly]

If Asada is given an exemption, goes to the Olympics, and wins the OGM, then that would be four Olympics in a row in which the ladies OGM was won by a 15 or 16 year old, and twice that it was won by a skater in her first season of Sr. Ladies skating.

Huh? Who are you talking about?

Baiul was the 1993 world champion (and European silver medalist, and fourth-place finisher at 1992 Nation's Cup IIRC). When she won the 1994 Olympics she was in her second season of senior ladies skating.

Lipinski was the 1997 world champion and had also won the Champions Series (Grand Prix) Final, which means she had also been on the senior circuit in fall 1996. She had also competed at 1996 Worlds, but had been doing junior competitions (Junior Worlds) in fall 95. So depending how you look at it, when she won the 1998 Olympics she was either in her second or third season of senior ladies skating.

Hughes, of course, thanks to the Junior Worlds medal age loophole that no longer exists, had been going to Worlds since 1999 (but had been junior in fall 98) and the senior Grand Prix since 1999-2000. When she won the 2002 Olympics, she was in her third or fourth season of senior ladies skating.

 

[tharrtell]

Now don't anybody kill me just yet, but I think a lot of the problem is what I call the SSS: the SoCal Superficiality Syndrome.

LOVE it!

 

[euterpe]

The ISU will not give Mao Asada an exemption to go to the Olympics. The age rule was instituted in the first place to prevent a repetition of Baiul and Lipinski winning the OGM at 15.

If the Japanese Federation wanted the rule changed, they would have had to go to the ISU well over a year ago and politicked for it in time for the rule to be changed at the last ISU meeting in the spring of 2005. Even if they had, I doubt very much that they would have gotten any support for the rule change, since they would be the only federation who would benefit from it.

 

[R.D.]

Rgirl - couldn't have said it better. You summed up (well, ok, maybe wrote a book about ) how I feel about Cohen at this point. I just don't think she is good enough in the field that is out there right now. I seriously think it would be a shocker if she wins.