Ladies - LP

[Mathman]

Forgive me - earlier i did point out Kristi was the Last Lady to win the WC, then the OGM, and then go on to defend her WC as reigning Olympic champion.

That record is actually pretty impressive to me - something which neither Yuna or Mao has done, not to mention Oksana, Tara, Michelle or Shiz, etc.

I believe Peggy Fleming did it and maybe Dorothy too. But not many have been able to win the skating "trifecta." (consecutive WC, OGM and WC)
Not sure if Kati did it either - maybe someone knows?

Interesting question. I looked it up.

Witt, yes in 1988, no in 1984.

Hamill, no.

Fleming, yes.

Also Beatrix Schuba, Sjoukje Dijkstra, Carol Heiss and Barbara Ann Scott. Pretty cool.

I don't think any of them won the World Junior Championship in both singles and pairs in the same year, though.

 

[rtureck]

rtureck

I'm just making a logical analysis why it happened and who had to endure more. Really Yuna was prepared according to her, but something gone wrong. I'm just thinking why it gone wrong...

Maybe nothing has gone wrong, maybe even YuNa was fully rested, Mao would still have beat her. Is it really that impossible to think that Mao is capable of beating YuNa? Since you are the one who is so interested in their riva;ry. (Of course only the recent yrs) But looking at their history, Mao beat yuNa plenty of times

A lot of you seem to think that she made an excuse after her performance. First of all, there is no reason to make an excuse, because she was personally happy and even maybe lucky that she got a silver medal. So why an excuse if she actually did it good in her opinion?
Second, all the information about jet lag and her illness was available long before the competition. She said that she got a cold after returning in Toronto the next day she arrived. It's just that some fans including me started to speculate how much that could affect her performance. it's not coming from Yuna or anyone from her team.

we have to agree to disagree the definition of excuse

Third, I don't know why you Americans seems to see everything as excuses.

Well maybe Americans have different definition of "excuse". Maybe some Americans are spoiled by Michelle's sportsmanship

Yuna Kim is Korean, and she may say something in the future that you may think is an excuse, but really it's not. And I don't know why you see everything as an excuse... As far as I know no one else in the world sees it that way.

Are you sure al the ppl in the whole world is seeing it your way??

I don't understand what would be wrong if Michelle said that she lost partly because an infection interrupted her training? If that's actually is the truth! I perceive something as an excuse when it's not true that something happened because of it.

Michelle caught an upper respiratory tract germ in the plane on her way to Europe for worlds. Her sinus infection was in full blown during the competition, she looked white as a sheet, hanging onto the boards. Yet when asked, she denied the infection had anything to do with her loss.

Forget about excuses as she didn't do any. She did great, Mao was better and that's all.
You better think about how she climbed from 7th place to the 2nd. She made the impossible possible.

Just hoping you will forget about Yuna had to meet with her president and sponsors, and she had the jet lag (what if she did not have the jet lag, she would beat Mao). I do not think about how she climbed from 7th to second, it is meaningless. She skated second best in the comp and got a silver period. Anyway COP makes it possible for a skater even in 16th place to climb to #1, it is possible, unlike the old 6.0 system.

 

[aftertherain]

She did great, Mao was better and that's all.
You better think about how she climbed from 7th place to the 2nd. She made the impossible possible.

It wasn't impossible to begin with. I remember at 2009 World Juniors, Caroline Zhang climbed from 10th in the SP to 1st in the FS for 2nd overall.

It's definitely very difficult to climb from bottom ten to top three, but for Yuna, it was probably a little easier than most other skaters.

Congrats to all the medalists once again.

 

[demarinis5]

rtureck, you just took all the words out my mouth. The best doesn't always win; if that was the case, Michelle Kwan should have an OGM.

Let's just be happy for all the ladies; Yu-na, Mao, Laura, Mirai, everyone, congratulate them on their medals, and wait for the upcoming season with open minds to see what it brings. After all, the ice is slippery ;D The competition is over, the results are the results, now we have only the future to look towards

Whole post. :thumbsup:

 

[Daniel5555]

rtureck
It's really interesting to chat with you... It's a shame that this forums work so bad now. They have to buy a new server...

Well Mao likes to compete and win and she sets goals for herself including beating records, of course nothing wrong with that. She may or may not achieve it, but she sure will try. Thanks for clarigying tht she wants to beat the record not b/c it is YuNa's

They have very different personalities, those two girls. I think that Mao is more focused on the results, while Yuna thinks about how to be satisfied after her performance and bring joy to the audience. She said that she wants to be "the favorite skater" for other people which doesn't mean that she wins all the time. She may lose, but still be the favorite skater for many people.
Mao of course, also brings the joy, but I think that she focused on results and technical achievements, which is great too.

No you said Yuna (best skater) vaulted from 7th to 2nd. It comes across that you are saying YuNa is the best skater at Torin. Anyway who is the best skater, is topic of another thread

OK.
It's one of those things that are related to language issues. It's like saying that Yuna is the best, but that day Mao was the best. Doesn't make much sense really, I'm sorry.

I think anytime when Mao and Yuna lace up a pair of skate, no one can doubt that they will win. But in this comp Mao won

Well, this is wrong. Really Mirai Nagasu could win here. On the Worlds Mao was off the podium. At SA Yuna lost Free skate to Flatt.

The Korean president and all the commerical sponsors etc are not holding a gun to YuNa's head. She has a choice not to go.

It's easy for you to talk. Would you deny meeting with American president because of something important to you, but having a chance to sort it out anyway even if you meet with him?
Commercial sponsors have nothing to do with this, by the way.

But if she goes, please fans do not worry or make excuse or come up with all these even though Mao skated the best, no one can doubt that YuNa can win because she is the best skater. If that is the case why not just give the world gold medal to YuNa without a world cvomp then

They give medals for performances, that's why.

In worlds 1999, many Mk fans worried about her sinus infection too, but when Maria won, I did not make excuses for MK. Mk lost to MB period.

OK, I'll call you mr. Awesome
But I'm not making any excuse really.

I don;t think it is US culture vs Spanish culture. There is a reason why many athletes don't mention their injuries or illnesses etc during comp. For example in MK's case even when asked she denied absolutely that sinus infection has nothing to do with losing to MB, because Michelle did not want ot take credit away from Maria;s win. Some fans call that sportsmansihp

So why they even ask that if she has to say "no" anyway?
Really no one can say if it affected the result or not. It's impossible to take credit from someone based on that. Now, if you can't even say that your preparation was not good enough because you were ill, you are forcing people to lie because of some strange ideas that have nothing to do with sportsmanship.

By the way, ladies showed perfect example of sportsmanship this season. You had to see how Yuna hugged Mao at medal ceremony. It was really touching and there is no doubt that they, at least, respect each other very much. Mao also said "Thank you" to Yuna Kim for being strong rival and pushing Mao to grow.

Anyway, a YuNa fan mentioned earlier that s/he is celebrating YuNa's full set of world medals, I am sure you are doing the same. 2010 world is over, the judging is fair and square, and your worry about "jet lag" etc seems to be unnecessary

Of course.
I'm really just worried about Yuna's health, for me she could finish off the podium, I would be happy anyway if she would be happy. OK. A new rule for me. Never mention jet lags on (American) figure skating forums

 

[lavender]

rtureck, you just took all the words out my mouth. The best doesn't always win; if that was the case, Michelle Kwan should have an OGM.

That's for sure...

 

[rtureck]

rtureck

They have very different personalities, those two girls. I think that Mao is more focused on the results, while Yuna thinks about how to be satisfied after her performance and bring joy to the audience. She said that she wants to be "the favorite skater" for other people which doesn't mean that she wins all the time. She may lose, but still be the favorite skater for many people.

Results is of course one of Mao's goals, others goals are e.g. a quad loop, it is to challenge herself that I think drives Mao to practice etc. Same can be said of Mao, she may lose, but she is the favorite of many

Mao of course, also brings the joy, but I think that she focused on results and technical achievements, which is great too.

I think Mao and many Japanese skaters are vfery focused on advancing the tech side of skating. Thanks to Midori Ito. Many Japanese girls practice the 3a and make that their goal. You also see that in Dasuke, he didnot need the quad flip, but he took the risk

Well, this is wrong. Really Mirai Nagasu could win here. On the Worlds Mao was off the podium. At SA Yuna lost Free skate to Flatt.

I am just saying that Mao is capable of winning a comp, every time she laces up. You are free to disagree, but can't say I am wrong. She is two time world champ

It's easy for you to talk. Would you deny meeting with American president because of something important to you, but having a chance to sort it out anyway even if you meet with him?
Commercial sponsors have nothing to do with this, by the way.

I am not saying it is easy. But she still has a choice to meet the president and soak in the glory which she deserved, but then there is a risk of "jet lag" etc. She knew the risk.

OK, I'll call you mr. Awesome
But I'm not making any excuse really.

So why they even ask that if she has to say "no" anyway?

Already explained, she is not taking away Maria's glory of the world win, and tht comes across as sportsmanship to me

By the way, ladies showed perfect example of sportsmanship this season. You had to see how Yuna hugged Mao at medal ceremony. It was really touching and there is no doubt that they, at least, respect each other very much. Mao also said "Thank you" to Yuna Kim for being strong rival and pushing Mao to grow.

Like I said, they grew up competitng against each other, there were plenty of mutal hugging, and mutual thanking moments when one beat the other. It is definitely not a one sided victory by their history, (I am sure you msy disagree), and I too call you Mr. Awesome

 

[Daniel5555]

rtureck

Is it really that impossible to think that Mao is capable of beating YuNa?

Mao is capable of beating Yuna, but personally I think Yuna is the best skater from the current generation. But I can't be sure about this and Mao may be stronger.
I never said, I think, that Mao is not capable of beating her, I guess you are guessing what i'm thinking, but you are really wrong here.
While personally I think that Yuna is really exceptional, I would never say that her rivals, especially Mao can't beat her, even if she is fully rested and in the best shape.

Michelle caught an upper respiratory tract germ in the plane on her way to Europe for worlds. Her sinus infection was in full blown during the competition, she looked white as a sheet, hanging onto the boards. Yet when asked, she denied the infection had anything to do with her loss.

There are two possibilities:
1) This is terrible. You don't forgive anything. She can't even admit that she lost because of some major force. I bet if she would be hit by a meteorite you would still say that this is because she was not good enough. Oh my God. What a terrible people you are.
[Speaking seriously, the more I know about Michelle, the more I see how great person she is. But still, you demand too much. This is cruel, guys, and I say that living in the country where we kill bulls for our entertainment.]
2) This is true, it has nothing to do at all. How I can know...

 

[youtubo]

The good thing about Mao's fan is that they constantly keep adding stuff .....the more they add, I learn something new about their culture.
Congrat to Yuna, Mao, and Laura!

 

[rtureck]

rtureck

Mao is capable of beating Yuna, but personally I think Yuna is the best skater from the current generation. But I can't be sure about this and Mao may be stronger.
I never said, I think, that Mao is not capable of beating her, I guess you are guessing what i'm thinking, but you are really wrong here.
While personally I think that Yuna is really exceptional, I would never say that her rivals, especially Mao can't beat her, even if she is fully rested and in the best shape.

Well, lets agree on this then, that you as a YuNa fan do think that she is the best skater who ever lace up, but you have enough respect for other skaters that you are not dismissing them.

There are two possibilities:
1) This is terrible. You don't forgive anything. She can't even admit that she lost because of some major force. I bet if she would be hit by a meteorite you would still say that this is because she was not good enough. Oh my God. What a terrible people you are.

Oh please, seriously you have a misunderstanding. As a Michelle fan, I admire and respect her sportsmanship for not taking the glory away from Maria. That is all, I do not demand anything from Michelle, just want her to be happy. Actually it was her coach Frank Caroll who taught Michelle not to make excuses , therefore when she loses, dont' blame the rut on the ice, or an infection or jet lag or whatever He did tht because he wanted her to work harder, and that is what coaches are supposed to do.

 

[Olympia]

I haven't seen the ladies' programs yet (save me a seat in front of YouTube!), but I have to say I'm thrilled that Mao won. She's a unique talent and has had a stressful year. It's great to see that she's shaken it off and climbed her way out of the pit here. There's something really appealing about her resilience.

On another issue, I never see the point of people criticizing YuNa on Mao's behalf or Mao on YuNa's behalf. It's so great that at this moment, when ladies' skating is in a bit of a trough in many countries, these two extraordinary talents are here for us to enjoy and marvel at. Neither of them is merely okay, or the best of a mediocre field. Instead, both would excel in any era of skating, and I suspect both will be remembered long into the future as spectacularly accomplished skaters. I hope this isn't the last we see of either lady!

 

[bekalc]

Janetfan your being unfair. When Yu-na returned to Toronto, her voice didn't sound good and she t old the reporter that she had a cold. Yu-na didn't mention anything about getting sick this weekened.

As for the comments well she could just say no to the meeting. It was a meeting with the President of her country, and Korea has a very different culture from the US. It might have been difficult for her to say no to that. Its not like Yu-na went to Disney World.

In the end it doesn't matter. Yu-na wasn't the best skater here- Mao was and Mao deserved to win. Everybody has their bad competitions once in awhile. I think in general from what I've seen this year, Yu-na is stronger RIGHT now. But mao is getting stronger and if Mao can get better programs and get her lutz and 3/3s back, it will be anyone's game.

 

[Cerulean]

On another issue, I never see the point of people criticizing YuNa on Mao's behalf or Mao on YuNa's behalf. It's so great that at this moment, when ladies' skating is in a bit of a trough in many countries, these two extraordinary talents are here for us to enjoy and marvel at. Neither of them is merely okay, or the best of a mediocre field. Instead, both would excel in any era of skating, and I suspect both will be remembered long into the future as spectacularly accomplished skaters. I hope this isn't the last we see of either lady!

I have to agree. I was a bit surprised to read some of the vitriol-laden posts in this forum and it seems like there are more directed towards Yuna than others. But then again, she is the dominant skater right now so perhaps that's expected.

 

[Lilith11]

I have to agree. I was a bit surprised to read some of the vitriol-laden posts in this forum and it seems like there are more directed towards Yuna than others. But then again, she is the dominant skater right now so perhaps that's expected.

Ah, but is it right is the question?

I personally do not see a reason to hate Yu-na. You may disagree w/the scores the judges give her, but for the most part, I've noticed that they agree that when she wins gold, it's a deserved gold. Please, have some respect for ALL the skaters everyone -_- They put hours of practice, hard work, they pour their dedication and lives into this one sport and then they're bashed. Yes, you're entitled to your opinion; but at the same time, there's something called manners and tact, yes, even on the internet. Furthermore, there's a fine line between constructive criticism and bashing. CC is meant to HELP the skater by pointing out the good and bad while bashing is just meant to... well, bash.

*sigh* People are so very difficult to please.

 

[silverlake22]

So that was a weird event but I have a few thoughts. What's with Rachael being perfectly content with her mediocre programs and scores? She didn't seem upset at all even when she learned she was in 9th place. Do people think she will turn out like Emily Hughes and just fall out of being competitive with the top skaters once she goes to college?

Surprised about Mirai and Min-Jung scoring so much lower than they have been recently and comparable to the scores they were receiving early this season before they had their breakthroughs. It almost seems like they have returned to their old form, URs and inconsistency, but I tend to think that can't be the case just judging from how great they were just a few weeks/months ago. I tend to think fatigue and jetlag is likely the cause of this splatfest of a competition, I mean, this was Kwak's 8th competition of the season and she flew to and from Korea since the Olympics and almost everyone looked physically tired.

This was an interesting event because the only people that did well were those who didn't do well at the Olympics (well Mao did well at both but she had a few big mistakes at the Olympics), so I guess peaking at the right time really is a factor. Funny though that the men's event wasn't a splatfest. I'm just glad the season is over and the ladies can rest!

 

[Ren]

Lark Ascending is a stunning program, I agree. I don't think I'd mind it if she brought it out again, except updated to fit her technical skills as of now.

:agree: Lark is a great program. I'll be satisfied with the videos, though. Yu-Na has associated Lark Ascending with the pain from her injury that season. And for me, it serves as a sort of snapshot, a teasing glimpse of future greatness, the beginning of one skater's rise to the top. I wonder if David Wilson was prescient in that sense. It was a perfect program for Yu-Na at that stage in her career, when she was really starting to 'fly'.

 

[skatemom1122]

So in my opinion the result should be:

1. Manouk gijsman, ned

2. Sarah hecken, ger

3. Caroline zhang, usa

 

[chloepoco]

I haven't seen the ladies' programs yet (save me a seat in front of YouTube!), but I have to say I'm thrilled that Mao won. She's a unique talent and has had a stressful year. It's great to see that she's shaken it off and climbed her way out of the pit here. There's something really appealing about her resilience.

On another issue, I never see the point of people criticizing YuNa on Mao's behalf or Mao on YuNa's behalf. It's so great that at this moment, when ladies' skating is in a bit of a trough in many countries, these two extraordinary talents are here for us to enjoy and marvel at. Neither of them is merely okay, or the best of a mediocre field. Instead, both would excel in any era of skating, and I suspect both will be remembered long into the future as spectacularly accomplished skaters. I hope this isn't the last we see of either lady!

:agree:

 

[rtureck]

As for the comments well she could just say no to the meeting. It was a meeting with the President of her country, and Korea has a very different culture from the US. It might have been difficult for her to say no to that. Its not like Yu-na went to Disney World.

I am thrill tht Yuna met the president, and I am equally thrilled for her if she goes to Disney land. If a Yuna fan didn't bring up that she had "jet lag"she had to see thepresident, then therefore she did not skate well enough to win, then no one will be talking about she had a choice to meet or not meer the president

In the end it doesn't matter. Yu-na wasn't the best skater here- Mao was and Mao deserved to win. Everybody has their bad competitions once in awhile. I think in general from what I've seen this year, Yu-na is stronger RIGHT now. But mao is getting stronger and if Mao can get better programs and get her lutz and 3/3s back, it will be anyone's game.

I totally agree, in the end it doesn't matter, the best skater won gold at Torino and the second skater skater in Torino won silver. Who is stronger now is topic of another thread.

 

[silverlake22]

So in my opinion the result should be:

1. Manouk gijsman, ned

2. Sarah hecken, ger

3. Caroline zhang, usa

I found Sarah quite impressive here and I really like Manouk! Too bad her scores were so low, but I still think she has potential. She's only 17, she has time, plus she has looks on her side so maybe she can become the next Laura Lepisto and win World Bronze with 3 triples thanks to the pretty bonus?