Ladies - LP

[Norpido]

This is pretty laughable though. If Yu Na makes a failure SP and falls on her LP she might get beaten to the gold.

Mao made a great show with that music which was awesome. She accepted that piece and stuck with it a whole year.

And she came to the worlds with intent to win not because she was forced to.

 

[Daniel5555]

Mathman
I think I have to disagree about Yuna's PCS being too high.
While Mao was brilliant, I think you can see her focused on the program like she is trying hard to execute every element. In the case of Yuna from the side it looks like it takes much less effort from her to do it and even despite her mistakes her program looked very impressive. She never gave up on this and finished it with a huge, satisfied smile. I think it's really worth all the PCS she got.

One of the things that always surprise me is that a lot of people keep saying that the current system is not right and they always are making some ideas on how to improve it. But at the same time the same people usually say that the standings are fair. My question to them is: If the standings are almost always fair, isn't that the indication that the system actually works fine?

In the case of Yuna, even if she makes mistakes, she almost never loses the flow. In the short program she really was out of the line and the points reflected that, but in the free skate she never lost her usual lightness and flow, and that's why she won it.

I also agree with the third place that gone to Laura, because she is one of the most elegant skaters and I always enjoy her performance. I'm sure she deserved it.

 

[miki88]

Mathman
I think I have to disagree about Yuna's PCS being too high.
While Mao was brilliant, I think you can see her focused on the program like she is trying hard to execute every element. In the case of Yuna from the side it looks like it takes much less effort from her to do it and even despite her mistakes her program looked very impressive. She never gave up on this and finished it with a huge, satisfied smile. I think it's really worth all the PCS she got.

One of the things that always surprise me is that a lot of people keep saying that the current system is not right and they always are making some ideas on how to improve it. But at the same time the same people usually say that the standings are fair. My question to them is: If the standings are almost always fair, isn't that the indication that the system actually works fine?

In the case of Yuna, even if she makes mistakes, she almost never loses the flow. In the short program she really was out of the line and the points reflected that, but in the free skate she never lost her usual lightness and flow, and that's why she won it.

I also agree with the third place that gone to Laura, because she is one of the most elegant skaters and I always enjoy her performance. I'm sure she deserved it.

I don't know ~~~~~~ Maybe to her fans, it does no matter what. In my opinion, she was pretty out of it after her first mistake. Mao is always focused but she also makes her elements look effortless.

 

[Daniel5555]

miki88

In my opinion, she was pretty out of it after her first mistake.

Not really... That lasted for a second after she got up, but then she continued immediately.

Mao is always focused but she also makes her elements look effortless.

Yeah, this time it looked much better, but still Yuna does it better.
Their difference in PCS is around 3 points and basically it comes from Choreography / Composition and Interpretation. I think Gershwin program is better choreographically than "Bells of Moscow". Yuna does a lot of those little elements during it like "playing the piano", running, she also jumps into the salchow according to the music. Mao's program is not bad, but it's all the same, it's hard for me to remember different parts of it.
The Interpretation is very subjective, but I guess it just comes to watch both programs and decide which you enjoyed the most. Really Yuna is not supposed to interpret anything in this program and Mao probably does well her job with that dramatic and heavy music.

 

[miki88]

miki88

Not really... That lasted for a second after she got up, but then she continued immediately.


Yeah, this time it looked much better, but still Yuna does it better.
Their difference in PCS is around 3 points and basically it comes from Choreography / Composition and Interpretation. I think Gershwin program is better choreographically than "Bells of Moscow". Yuna does a lot of those little elements during it like "playing the piano", running, she also jumps into the salchow according to the music. Mao's program is not bad, but it's all the same, it's hard for me to remember different parts of it.
The Interpretation is very subjective, but I guess it just comes to watch both programs and decide which you enjoyed the most. Really Yuna is not supposed to interpret anything in this program and Mao probably does well her job with that dramatic and heavy music.

I meant in the the sense that the general confident spirit was not there this time, as it was in her previous performances. I gave props to her for continuing the program but something was lacking. I think it's more in the music choices that makes the difference. When Mao was doing Nocturne, she didn't really have to put much effort into interpreting it but people liked it better.

 

[seniorita]

I was going to write my Lp experience but now I m afraid to..:think:

Off Lp subject, Mr C was announced before yuna's group and there was barely a clapping and some booing came from upper levels.

 

[Daniel5555]

miki88

I meant in the the sense that the general confident spirit was not there this time, as it was in her previous performances.

This is true.
Yuna actually said that this was her hardest competition this season.

I want to state one more thing about Yuna's scores and Mao's scores. First, about Yuna... I think that looking at how the situation is now, it's actually hard to overscore her. I mean, she always has the quality in her programs and she never really had a complete meltdown. Here she messed all the "easy" elements in her SP, but she didn't fall at any of her jumps. Even during the SA's free skate she was beaten by herself, but she fought bravely like no other.

And then... Come on, she gave us two, probably, best performances in the history at the Olympic games. Perfect SP and perfect LP at the Olympics, that is something that even the most legendary skaters don't have... She wasn't able to repeat what Kristi Yamaguchi did, but she stands next to her coming to Worlds, competing, maintaining high level and finishing victorious at the second place. Yuna is great, there can't be doubts about it. I'm her fan, but I never would say something about her which is simply can't be true. I used before to write all her errors that I noticed firstly, and only then write good things. Cause she makes errors and even the Olympic performances can be improved. But I'm a fan of her because of what she is, I'm not trying to make her what she is not because I'm her fan.

Now about Mao Asada. It may sound like I really underestimate her and she isn't standing up to Yuna in my opinion. But what I really think is that Mao is not performing at her full potential and her choreography is just not good. What I think really is that Mao can perform like Yuna, very effortless, very fast, and very joyful. Now imagine Mao Asada which performs with the same quality as Yuna, but with triple Axel and her amazing spins and spiral, her superior flexibility, some really good program, which has a lot of little details and great standing poses, like Yuna's Danse Macabre or James Bond medley. This is not Yuna, this just would be brutal to other skaters. That would be a massacre that only Yuna could survive.
So I think while Mao was awesome, she can be... much more awesome.

seniorita

I was going to write my Lp experience but now I m afraid to..

Don't be afraid, just write it, señorita

 

[Figure88]

Your follow up statement is something most posters agree with - that reputation scoring is wrong and skaters should get marked for how they skate at the event, and not on what they have done in the past.

Yuna isn't competing with herself. She's competing with the other ladies in the field. This is a competition. She deserved first place because her skating skills are so clearly ahead of the other ladies. Everyone else seemed very similar to me.

 

[janetfan]

Yuna isn't competing with herself. She's competing with the other ladies in the field. This is a competition. She deserved first place because her skating skills are so clearly ahead of the other ladies. Everyone else seemed very similar to me.

Sorry, but I was not referring to Yuna - or any particular skater with the statement you quoted.

Was saying that skaters should get marked by what they do at an event and not by reputation.

I thought the Worlds scoring/placements were OK. I know some don't think the Bronze was right but I had no problem with that either.

 

[Olympia]

Seniorita, please post your report of the Ladies' long program! I was waiting eagerly for it because I so enjoyed your earlier coverage. I know I'm not the only one, either. Look how many thank-yous you received. If you're hesitant because you disagree with other posters, I hope you can overcome that. Everyone has a different point of view, and yours would be backed up by eyewitness evidence!

So far, one other poster (that I've seen, anyway) has posted a rinkside report, and reading it made me feel as though I had been able to get a glimpse of the event. I need more, more!

Thanks in advance. (No pressure or anything!)

 

[Bennett]

Yuna had a "Ive fallen and I cant get up" moment.

haha. Coaches often teach you to get up ASAP and do the checking position to minimize the previous moment. But she looked tired towards the end and didn't bother to do so? That moment reminded me of Johnny Weir 2006 Worlds, where the commentator was like "The awaited moment for Johnny Weir finally came, the end of the program." That was hilarious.

 

[Mathman]

This is just observation. It appears that Mirai going into a double axel from an Ina Bauer is a little bit different from how Yuna does it. I believe Mira takes a couple of steps between an Ina Bauer and a double exel while Yuna does not take any steps.

I think the right way to handle a situation this situation is like this. Yu-na gets positive GOE on her jump element for "unusual entry," while Mirai's Ina Bauer just counts toward the Transitions mark.

The one area where Yu-na absolutely cannot be beat is in the GOEs for jump elements. She always picks up an extra seven or eight points for the quality of her jumps.

On the other hand, Mirai's element punctuates a very dramatic musical highlight, so I would not be opposed to giving her credit in Interpretation also. About choreography more generally, I think one reason why there is a lot of disagreement is that David Wilson is really a "choreographers' choreographer." You have to be something of an artist yourself to appreciate some of the things he has done (for Jeff Buttle, for instance.)

If you skate to Carmen the audience is on your side from the first familiar note. If you essay a more sophisticated piece, you have to earn the attention of the audience.

 

[brianjyw]

I think the right way to handle a situation this situation is like this. Yu-na gets positive GOE on her jump element for "unusual entry," while Mirai's Ina Bauer just counts toward the Transitions mark.

ITA.

The one area where Yu-na absolutely cannot be beat is in the GOEs for jump elements. She always picks up an extra seven or eight points for the quality of her jumps.

There might be some people offended by "absolutely cannot be beat."

On the other hand, Mirai's element punctuates a very dramatic musical highlight, so I would not be opposed to giving her credit in Interpretation also.

Very good analysis! :thumbsup:

About choreography more generally, I think one reason why there is a lot of disagreement is that David Wilson is really a "choreographers' choreographer." You have to be something of an artist yourself to appreciate some of the things he has done (for Jeff Buttle, for instance.)

Agree. This might be one of the reasons why some people belittle Yuna's performance because it doesn't move them.

If you skate to Carmen the audience is on your side from the first familiar note. If you essay a more sophisticated piece, you have to earn the attention of the audience.

ITA.:agree:

 

[brianjyw]

haha. Coaches often teach you to get up ASAP and do the checking position to minimize the previous moment. But she looked tired towards the end and didn't bother to do so? That moment reminded me of Johnny Weir 2006 Worlds, where the commentator was like "The awaited moment for Johnny Weir finally came, the end of the program." That was hilarious.

I've watched the fall several times to see if your claim is true. My conclusion is there were no ways for her to get back to her position as fast as you think she should after the fall. Please watch the same jump she did at the Olympics. After the jump she had to do a very sophisticated and artistic transition into a feisty charge to sync with the dynamic transition of the music.

She had to just wait for the right moment to synch to the rapid change in rhythm.

If she was as tired as you claimed, she couldn't have succeeded in doing her magnificent triple lutz after the fall. Her usual speed and strength made it possible.

 

[Jo1]

Hype

Sorry folks I just don't see what so many of you see in Yuna. Her spiral is next to terrible ( all of the positions) and a lot of the time she appears just stiff to me. Maybe she jumps well but I certainly don't think her jumps are "outstanding" as some of you seem to suggest. I know I'm in the minority here but this is what I see. Mao, AND Mirai by the way, skate rings around her. IMHO. I think a lot of Yuna's popularity is just HYPE, (much as what was given to Sarah).

 

[R.D.]

Sorry folks I just don't see what so many of you see in Yuna. Her spiral is next to terrible ( all of the positions) and a lot of the time she appears just stiff to me. Maybe she jumps well but I certainly don't think her jumps are "outstanding" as some of you seem to suggest. I know I'm in the minority here but this is what I see. Mao, AND Mirai by the way, skate rings around her. IMHO. I think a lot of Yuna's popularity is just HYPE, (much as what was given to Sarah).

Apparently the judges don't think so.

She fails to excite me on TV. But maybe it's different seeing her live. However, that's an opportunity that has not presented itself to me, not yet anyway.

 

[brianjyw]

About the bolded sentence, no, I do not like it. I do not like it at all. What kind of sport awards points in today's championship for accomplishments six months ago?
=

The reason why I stated that past pcs performance count is because I believe PCS is kind of fixed during a season once a program comes out if we assume that a technical mistake has a very limited effect on PCS and if a player does not change his/her program dramatically during a season.

If would be really crazy if a player gets a very high PCS at a competition and a very low PCS at another one for the same program.

On the other hand, TES can fluctuate a lot depending on how well a player performs even during the same season.

Sorry about the confusion.

Edit was done to correct some typo

 

[Norpido]

While Mao was brilliant, I think you can see her focused on the program like she is trying hard to execute every element. In the case of Yuna from the side it looks like it takes much less effort from her to do it and even despite her mistakes her program looked very impressive. She never gave up on this and finished it with a huge, satisfied smile. I think it's really worth all the PCS she got.

The sport is a judging sport so things like that will always be different for each fan. I thought she looked uninterested and absolutely no feelings came out of her. If you're looking for a determined performance I would look to Mao.

 

[silverlake22]

Sorry folks I just don't see what so many of you see in Yuna. Her spiral is next to terrible ( all of the positions) and a lot of the time she appears just stiff to me. Maybe she jumps well but I certainly don't think her jumps are "outstanding" as some of you seem to suggest. I know I'm in the minority here but this is what I see. Mao, AND Mirai by the way, skate rings around her. IMHO. I think a lot of Yuna's popularity is just HYPE, (much as what was given to Sarah).

Have you seen her skate live? I think that might change your mind....she is SO fast and her jumps are HUGE :agree:. And she's just so beautiful and has great facial expressions .

 

[Spun Silver]

Mathman
I think I have to disagree about Yuna's PCS being too high.
While Mao was brilliant, I think you can see her focused on the program like she is trying hard to execute every element. In the case of Yuna from the side it looks like it takes much less effort from her to do it and even despite her mistakes her program looked very impressive. She never gave up on this and finished it with a huge, satisfied smile. I think it's really worth all the PCS she got.

I think this is a valid point. One of the frustrations with Mao this season is that she has lost or sacrificed that light, happy quality. (Tarasova said something like "suffer now for glory later" and Mao seems to have taken that literally.) To be fair, her programs this season also didn't call for happy faces. Whereas Yu Na has acquired the ability to do amazing things with seeming ease, and even delight. It's really extraordinary and deserves the high scores. I very much hope that next season Mao's programs give her a chance to regain that beautiful and joyous flow that she used to be known for.