Ladies - LP

[Bennett]

"Bells" is a very difficult piece to pull off, because it's strange and empty feeling. Therefore, it draws extra focus to what the skater is actually doing. That's probably why the program won't work if Mao makes even one mistake because it becomes quite disruptive. Whereas, for a more pleasing type of music, little mistakes can be more tolerant. Also, I think why the music piece and Mao doesn't fit is because of her style of skating. Mao has always had a quiet presence on the ice. However, "Bells" needs a skater to have a larger than life presence on the ice to effectively pull it off. In other words, he/she needs to be a diva. However, it's pretty hard for anyone to picture Mao as a diva. I also watched Jeffrey Buttle's interpretation of this music and I didn't think he pulled it off either because he doesn't have that diva presence. I think this music could work on Yagudin or Plushenko because their egos were big enough.

After hearing orchestra version throughout the season, Jeff's piano Bells sounded so light. I like that sensitive quality. The orchestra version and the piano version give very different impressions. I can't really believe that they are the same piece! I now like the orchestra version better, but I think the piano version more beautiful.

I think that the orchestra Bells may have more naturally suited Yag or Shizuka before losing weight.

 

[Norpido]

I don't have to prove anything, I know what I see.

You are becoming delirious. I don't have to prove your false fact of non edited Yu Na pictures.

You having trouble understanding proofs? A proof is not you saying fan pictures almost look like the real pictures. A proof is not refuting someone else of seeing a program. lol that was a low point of yours.

228.56 - 205.50 = 23.06. You have some troubles with math. And Mao was not at her peak, she had 2 errors with jumps.

Grasping at straws here. The point being it was a ridiculous margin just as it was a ridiculous margin when Mao won Torino.

One thing is constructive criticism and other is insulting.

Your concern for forum etiquette is a joke when you use words like "rectum", "gorilla" and what not. I know Spain is a country with the worlds most cursing words, surely you can come up with some more genuine ones.

 

[demarinis5]

There's a convenient feature in the forums that makes your environment peaceful. You won't even notice any wars may be going on.

Yeah I know but you still get to see the person who is on your ignore list in other posters quotes.

 

[demarinis5]

So let's end it on a high note with a clip of the last Lady to defend her World championship after winning the Olympic Gold medal.

After all these years I still love her skating ......and this program.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFe2dBphjFU

I love this program too. Kristi was one of my favorites back in the day.

 

[bethissoawesome]

"Bells of Moscow" (a name that wasn't given to the piece by Rachmaninoff himself), actually, has no underlying meaning at all. To Rachmaninoff, it was simply Prelude in C# Minor... it was actually the Western and European listeners that gave the piece the nickname "Bells of Moscow," since Rachmaninoff is Russian and studied at Moscow Conservatory. There is no background story behind the piece of music that Mao can interpret... so she can really only interpret the music itself. What I do find "interesting" about it is that Rachmaninoff composed this piece at 19 (along with 4 others) and it won him a gold medal at Moscow Conservatory for composition... kind of funny when you think about it that Mao was trying to get herself an Olympic Figure Skating gold medal at 19 with a piece of music that won another 19 year old a very different type of gold medal. ^_^

Other notes about the Ladies LP:
-I do think Yu-Na was a bit over-scored... a 9.40 GOE is far too high considering she lost 3 points from the 3S and popped the 2A (I hope the axel mistake doesn't get to her mentally, since the 2A really is her strong base jump). It seems like judges are blindly giving her high GOEs for every element (while I do think she has the best jumps in the field and deserves those GOEs, the same marks are being extended to other elements that are not as strong as her jumps and outscores other skaters who are stronger in those elements)
-I don't know if it was the angle I saw it from, but to me it looked like they marked the wrong 3A with a downgrade for Mao. The angle I watched from it looked like the first was UR-ed but the second combination 3A was clean. /shrug I do think this is the first time this season in the LP that Mao has skated to her music, making it a part of her program, and not just skated with music in the background.
-BIGGEST CONCERN: the 3T+3T combination becoming a new "staple" for Ladies skating.... Laura's 3T+3T was the 2nd highest scoring combination only to Yu-Na's 3Lz+3T, even topping Carolina's 3F+3T (this is all considering GOE). IMHO, the 3T+3T is easier than a 3Lz or 3F plus a double. Not only did it prop Laura up to win a bronze, it was Christine Gao's big scorer at the US Nat's. I'm starting to fear that a lot of ladies who don't have a 3-3 combination might start abandoning their 3Lz/3F+2T/2Lo's in favor of the 3T+3T combination.... especially in the SP. I think we might start seeing a lot of 3T+3T, 3Lz, 2A line-ups in SPs for the ladies.
-this definitely proved that the saying that "the SP can't win the competition for you, but it can lose it" isn't always true.... with Mao and Yu-Na nearly guaranteed to be taking Gold and Silver between them, Bronze was pretty much the Gold for the rest of the field... so for this competition, as far as I am concerned, the SP DID win the competition.
-the judges' newly found love for Mirai (yay! even though my heart broke for her in the LP) was also evident in this competition... she was finally given the PCS she deserves and her GOEs as well (I even thought her GOEs were a bit high in the SP)... as long as she doesn't fall next season, she could very well become the "new favorite" and really start challenging Yu-Na and Mao.


QUESTION ABOUT THE SP (Mao's Flip/Lutz/Lip/Flutz?)

In the SP, what exactly was Mao going for in the solo jump? The first version I watched, commentators said the jump was a 3Lz, which surprised me since she hasn't done the lutz all season... but sure enough in their slow motion replay, the jump appears to take off from the outside edge. Still, the jump is listed as a 3F on the score sheet, no edge calls. Did anyone else notice this or have some answers for this? TY

 

[bethissoawesome]

So let's end it on a high note with a clip of the last Lady to defend her World championship after winning the Olympic Gold medal.

After all these years I still love her skating ......and this program.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFe2dBphjFU

Such a great program... when I think of all the great skaters under the 6.0 system, I always think that Kristi would be the one to do the best under CoP.

 

[Daniel5555]

Norpido

You are becoming delirious. I don't have to prove your false fact of non edited Yu Na pictures.

You started to make the false accusations, so you have to prove them.

Grasping at straws here. The point being it was a ridiculous margin just as it was a ridiculous margin when Mao won Torino.

I would like to see some exhaustive analysis with score sheet and indications where Yuna was overscored and so, otherwise it's just another empty statement of yours.

Your concern for forum etiquette is a joke when you use words like "rectum", "gorilla" and what not. I know Spain is a country with the worlds most cursing words, surely you can come up with some more genuine ones.

"Rectum" and "gorilla" are now cursing words?

 

[R.D.]

don't tell me the fan wars are back in full swing

 

[Norpido]

You started to make the false accusations, so you have to prove them.

Give it a rest DAniell. You obviously can't comprehend a simple text. I don't have time to pin point every little knitpick for you.

 

[brianjyw]

The judges were scoring Yuna relative to her Olympic performance. If one looks at it this way, it seems justified since it's so below her Olympic score. However, they did not do that for the other skaters, which makes it unfair. It's just weird that Mao''s LP with an UR triple and pop jump scores more than a LP with just an UR.

I am wondering why you think the judges scored Yuna relative to her Olympic while they scored Mao based on her Performance at the worlds. Are you blaming the judges for applying double standards between Yuna and Mao?

I just don't see how the present system is better than the older system, because so many thing stay the same. The top skaters are always given the highest PCS, so the fight for gold is essentially among those skaters.

I don't see anything wrong with this as they are called such because their peformances are superior to others. Across all disciplines in sports, top players tend to always perform better than the rest. Once you get better at something, you don't lose it overnight.

It's still harder for a less known skater to sneak in even if they skate well. But at least, under the 6.0, the winning performance usually was clean and more or less satisfying.

I recommend you to look up Mao and Yuna in Wikipedia and see how they peformed at their first senior year (even Junior year). I believe the current judging system is better equipted to allow a less known skater to get rewarded for his/her performances.

If you are really good, you get rewarded under the current system no matter how less known you are. Maybe the reason why a skater is less known is because the skater is not good enough? :think:

I think a skater should focus on improving his/her skills rather than complaining about being less known or not being rewarded. If you get better, everything will follow it.

 

[miki88]

I am wondering that because Mao's PCS dropped like 5 points from the Olympics, and several people including me thinks she performed it better at Worlds.

I recommend you to look up Mao and Yuna in Wikipedia and see how they peformed at their first senior year (even Junior year). I believe the current judging system is better equipted to allow a less known skater

If you are really good, you get rewarded under the current system no matter how less known you are. Maybe the reason why a skater is less known is because the skater is not good enough? :think:

I think a skater should focus on improving his/her skills rather than complaining about being less known or not being rewarded.

Well, when Mao and Yuna debuted, the top veterans (Slutskaya and Sasha) have already retired. Oh really? Then why is Akiko's PCS always so low? :think: The point is not to evaluate the skaters based on how generally good they are but how good they are on that particular night. Weren't you the one who pointed out that reputation plays a role and that Mirai's PCS at the Olympics was lower than Mao's even though she was clean? Well then, how's that different from the 6.0? If you get better, everything will follow it Unfortunately, things doesn't work so simply in the skating world, as in real life.

 

[rtureck]

Asada sisters always remind me of Hina dolls, classy Japanese beauty.
http://userdisk.webry.biglobe.ne.jp/003/937/60/N000/000/000/123257740634016413312.jpg

I think Mai the older sister is probably the prettiest skater evah!

After hearing orchestra version throughout the season, Jeff's piano Bells sounded so light. I like that sensitive quality. The orchestra version and the piano version give very different impressions. I can't really believe that they are the same piece! I now like the orchestra version better, but I think the piano version more beautiful.

I think TT likes to heavy up (sorry can't think of another term) light solo piano pieces. IIRC, she let Shizuka skate to an orchestral version of Chopin's fantasia impromptu. By doing that, it just ruined the piece of music for me. I think Mao is so excellent (probably the only singles lady skater in history who can handle solo piano music). She is so light , like someone said "like a fairy".

 

[brianjyw]

I am wondering that because Mao's PCS dropped like 5 points from the Olympics, and several people including me thinks she performed it better at Worlds.

Well, when Mao and Yuna debuted, the top veterans (Slutskaya and Sasha) have already retired. Oh really? Then why is Akiko's PCS always so low? :think: The point is not to evaluate the skaters based on how generally good they are but how good they are on that particular night. Weren't you the one who pointed out that reputation plays a role and that Mirai's PCS at the Olympics was lower than Mao's even though she was clean? Well then, how's that different from the 6.0?

You didn't hear that Mao was so good in 2006 that a lot of people stated that Mao would have won at the 2006 OGM if she was allowed to compete with even Sasha and Slutskaya?

Below is direct excerpt from Wikipedia:

Asada competed on the Senior Grand Prix circuit for the first time in November 2005 at the 2005 Cup of China. She won the silver medal, and placed exactly 3 points ahead of future 2006 Olympic Champion Shizuka Arakawa. Asada, then, won her second event, the 2005 Trophée Eric Bompard, by a 7.30 point margin over silver medalist Sasha Cohen, who would later go on to win the silver medal at the 2006 Olympics. The gold medal in Paris and silver from China qualified Asada for the 2005–2006 Grand Prix of Figure Skating Final. She won the event with a 8.14 margin of victory over silver medalist Irina Slutskaya, who would go on to win the bronze medal at the 2006 Olympics.

Basically, she beat every single top players on the planet earth in 2006 even though she was too young to compete at the 2006 Olympics. I think the current system gives less known players more opportunities to beat top skaters than 6.0 system. Another example, lesser known Mirai beat top players in SP at the world.

Are you stating that the judges ganged up against Akiko and applied double standard between Akiko and the rest? Then it is a bold accusation and you should have very compelling evidence other than just saying "she was good and deserved higher score". I don't see any reason why they would do that. Do you? I wonder what kind motivation the judges had and what kind of benefits they gained by doing so.

I stated that "past performance (I don't think I used the word "reputation") plays a role" based on my observation on how staters have been scored and I didn't say it was really what was going on or even it was good or bad. When I compared Mao's performance against Mirai's performance at the Olympics and the difference in PCS scores they received for their LP program, it made me think that past performances might have something to do with the difference in score. There were some people who claimed it was ridiculous that Yuna got higher PCS than Mao at the worlds and I wanted to point out that clean program does not guarantee a higher PCS as evidenced by Mao getting higher PCS than Mirai at the Olympics.

I totally agree with your statement "The point is not to evaluate the skaters based on how generally good they are but how good they are on that particular night" But the issue is that it is much harder to evaluate PCS while it is much easier to evaluate TES because TES is tangible but PCS is intangible and TES more objective, PCS more subjective. Because of these obsticles and limitations, I think PCS doesn't fluctuate as much as some people think it should.

If you are so much concerned about certain skaters not being evaluated fairly too much, I don't think you can really enjoy watching FS. The judges may not be perfect but I tend to believe they are much more objective and fair than any of us on the forum. IMHO.

If you get better, everything will follow it Unfortunately, things doesn't work so simply in the skating world, as in real life.

Really? Have you ever heard of "Life is unfair?" You don't get rewarded for what you do in real life often, but in skating world, you get rewarded fairly for what/how you do. IMHO.

 

[hellcat]

"
QUESTION ABOUT THE SP (Mao's Flip/Lutz/Lip/Flutz?)

In the SP, what exactly was Mao going for in the solo jump? The first version I watched, commentators said the jump was a 3Lz, which surprised me since she hasn't done the lutz all season... but sure enough in their slow motion replay, the jump appears to take off from the outside edge. Still, the jump is listed as a 3F on the score sheet, no edge calls. Did anyone else notice this or have some answers for this? TY

If you replay Mao's flutz and flip side by side, it's not going to be easy to tell the difference.

 

[Figure88]

Other notes about the Ladies LP:
-I do think Yu-Na was a bit over-scored... a 9.40 GOE is far too high considering she lost 3 points from the 3S and popped the 2A (I hope the axel mistake doesn't get to her mentally, since the 2A really is her strong base jump). It seems like judges are blindly giving her high GOEs for every element (while I do think she has the best jumps in the field and deserves those GOEs, the same marks are being extended to other elements that are not as strong as her jumps and outscores other skaters who are stronger in those elements)

Yuna was not overscored on GOE's. She didn't even receive the highest GOE's on her jumps even though they were of the highest quality compared to any of the other ladies. Her 3-3 in FS alone deserved an automatic 2-3 points, but she only received 1 point for it. Ridiculous!

Also, I thought she should have received credit for spin sequence in the SP. I thought tech caller was ridicuously strict. Why would anyone consider a botched single turn to be the start of the spin sequence? No common sense whatsoever in how the rules were applied.

 

[rtureck]

There are things that are in favor of Yuna and others that are in favor of Michelle. Again, this is stupid and I don't pretend to compare. Just let's stop it.

Daniel, you were the one who started this "stupid " comparing, and put in 4CC which is not an entirely world wide comp into the equation. Anyway, I don't think fans (unless they love to brag) choose a favorite skater on the basis of how many comp they win.

Can't believe it has been 10years since Mk won worlds with the red violin

 

[carriecmu0503]

Yuna was not overscored on GOE's. She didn't even receive the highest GOE's on her jumps even though they were of the highest quality compared to any of the other ladies. Her 3-3 in FS alone deserved an automatic 2-3 points, but she only received 1 point for it. Ridiculous!

Also, I thought she should have received credit for spin sequence in the SP. I thought tech caller was ridicuously strict. Why would anyone consider a botched single turn to be the start of the spin sequence? No common sense whatsoever in how the rules were applied.

Honest question here, but have you ever skated? That "bothched single turn" at the start of her spin was the entrance to her spin. Missing it is like missing the take off to a jump- like when she did that waltz jump later in her FS. Once you miss an entrance to a jump, and start to take off, like doing a waltz jump, that element is gone. It is the same with a windup and entrance into a spin. She did more than just one turn- she actually started the mechanism to spin but missed it. You miss it, no credit for the spin. Hope that helps.

 

[miki88]

You didn't hear that Mao was so good in 2006 that a lot of people stated that Mao would have won at the 2006 OGM if she was allowed to compete with even Sasha and Slutskaya?

Below is direct excerpt from Wikipedia:



Basically, she beat every single top players on the planet earth in 2006 even though she was too young to compete at the 2006 Olympics. I think the current system gives less known players more opportunities to beat top skaters than 6.0 system. Another example, lesser known Mirai beat top players in SP at the world.

Are you stating that the judges ganged up against Akiko and applied double standard between Akiko and the rest? Then it is a bold accusation and you should have very compelling evidence other than just saying "she was good and deserved higher score". I don't see any reason why they would do that. Do you? I wonder what kind motivation the judges had and what kind of benefits they gained by doing so.

I stated that "past performance (I don't think I used the word "reputation") plays a role" based on my observation on how staters have been scored and I didn't say it was really what was going on or even it was good or bad. When I compared Mao's performance against Mirai's performance at the Olympics and the difference in PCS scores they received for their LP program, it made me think that past performances might have something to do with the difference in score. There were some people who claimed it was ridiculous that Yuna got higher PCS than Mao at the worlds and I wanted to point out that clean program does not guarantee a higher PCS as evidenced by Mao getting higher PCS than Mirai at the Olympics.

I totally agree with your statement "The point is not to evaluate the skaters based on how generally good they are but how good they are on that particular night" But the issue is that it is much harder to evaluate PCS while it is much easier to evaluate TES because TES is tangible but PCS is intangible and TES more objective, PCS more subjective. Because of these obsticles and limitations, I think PCS doesn't fluctuate as much as some people think it should.

If you are so much concerned about certain skaters not being evaluated fairly too much, I don't think you can really enjoy watching FS. The judges may not be perfect but I tend to believe they are much more objective and fair than of us on the forum. IMHO.


Really? Have you ever heard of "Life is unfair?" You don't get rewarded for what you do in real life often, but in skating world, you get rewarded fairly for what/how you do. IMHO.

IMAO. Of course I know what happened in 2005 GPF. (I'm her fan after all). Yes, sometimes upsets do happen but it's not that common. All I am saying is that I think the current system is not fairer than the older system. You do remember upsets also happened under the older system. I mean Sarah Hughes? Also Oksana Baiul rise from a lesser-known to a teen phenom was pretty quick, so it also happened before. Well, I disagree. Just because they are judges and just because those are the rules doesn't mean they are fair. For every system, there will be supporters and opponents. And I just happen to be on the other side from you.

 

[rtureck]

what's up with that Norpido? He/she's been trolling about yuna during the entire thread and also on the other threads while praising Mao lol Anyways, For Mao, I think she's more on the cute side. People has been saying her programs don't fit her and I think that is because she still has that young, teen quality. Maybe at the next olympics when she's more mature, she can pull off heavy Russian programs better, in Russia lol. She's so skinny too (I could see her bones on her back!). I heard she lost a lot of weight to increase consistency on her jumps. I hope she's enjoying that pizza she wanted now lol

I think Mao is plenty mature, she reminds me of Kristi at her exact age. I think she pulled off prelude in c sharp minor just fine by olympics and worlds. Yeah she is thin, kind of reminds me of Kristi too. Kristi was skinny when she was 30 y/o. So call "Mature" or "teen age like " is very subjective, and Mao is a teenager. She does not come across as losing a lot of wt. Anyway, Mao's posture, body line, extension etc is always pretty regardless of losing wt or not. I hope she enjyoys the ice cream she loves so much

 

[rtureck]

Honest question here, but have you ever skated? That "bothched single turn" at the start of her spin was the entrance to her spin. Missing it is like missing the take off to a jump- like when she did that waltz jump later in her FS. Once you miss an entrance to a jump, and start to take off, like doing a waltz jump, that element is gone. It is the same with a windup and entrance into a spin. She did more than just one turn- she actually started the mechanism to spin but missed it. You miss it, no credit for the spin. Hope that helps.

Botched single turn was counted as one mandatory element her layback spin, and since she started the spin, and it is a sp, she cannot make it up by doing another layback spin. Even though she popped the jump and turned it into a waltz, since she didn't fall, there was no minus 1. For some reasons many skaters e.g. hate to pop a jump, Kristi prefers to try and fall on a jump