Ladies - LP

[Figure88]

I see it like this: If on her best at the Olympics Yu-na can get 71, then certainly to go down to 65-67 here (she was score 65.) Likewise I believe Mao rose to the occasion and probably deserves a point or two better than Vancouver so that would put her (in my ranking) at 68 (instead of 62.)

The Vancouver Olympics are a different competiiton from Worlds with a different panel of judges, so of course, you will have differences in results. But Mao has received low PCS for her FS this season (at 4cc), so it wasn't her lower PCS in this particular competition is unprecedented. Plus, all the other skater received lower PCS and she is being marked relative to other skaters. I think it has to do with her music choice and choreography this season. She's essentially a light and lyrical skater so I think the program was a bad choice for her.

 

[miki88]

Not a surprising response since most of your posts are about defending Mao.

Actually, I felt the need to reply on behalf of the other ladies competing there. The others may not have the skills or presence as Yuna but I don't think they were scared or hesitant. People talk about Yuna fighting through the program but so did Mirai in her LP. She was fighting for everything there and she gave a great SP performance. Akiko also gave a good performance with a lot of joy.

 

[chloepoco]

Not a surprising response since most of your posts are about defending Mao.

I don't understand why you get so defensive whenever anyone says anything postive about Mao. Just because a poster says they enjoyed Mao's program more than Yuna's at Worlds, that does not diminish or demean Yuna at all. It just means at this event, they liked Mao as much as, or better than Yuna. There's nothing wrong with that. It is possible to be a fan of both skaters, and to think one skated better than the other at an event. And to say that the other skaters "looked like amateurs--so hesitant and scared", I mean really, is that necessary?

 

[Figure88]

I don't understand why you get so defensive whenever anyone says anything postive about Mao. Just because a poster says they enjoyed Mao's program more than Yuna's at Worlds, that does not diminish or demean Yuna at all. It just means at this event, they liked Mao as much as, or better than Yuna. There's nothing wrong with that. It is possible to be a fan of both skaters, and to think one skated better than the other at an event. And to say that the other skaters "looked like amateurs--so hesitant and scared", I mean really, is that necessary?

First, my response wasn't to anyone "saying positive things about Mao". My post was about the scores at ladies event. You're intentionally misrepresenting the content of the posts and the topic that is being discussed.

Secondly, is that comment even insulting? It's my opinion and an honest impression I got from the skaters. Also, I didn't intend it to specifically target to Mao or any specific skater---it was an impression I had of the skaters in general at the ladies event.

I've seen you say much more rude things before. So isn't it a little hypocritical to say the least, to be criticizing anyone about the tone of their posts?

 

[Daniel5555]

bekalc

The reason we need a P/E is because we need something that takes into account the whole execution of the program.

I'm sorry, but maybe you misunderstand this mark?
This is how ISU explains it:

Performance/Execution
Performance: is the involvement of the Skater/Pair physically, emotionally and intellectually as they translate the intent of the music and choreography.
Execution: is the quality of movement and precision in delivery.
In evaluating the Performance/Execution, the following must be considered:
– Physical, emotional and intellectual involvement
– Carriage
– Style and individuality/personality
– Clarity of movement
– Variety and contrast
– Projection

Obviously, this is not a mark for the whole performance, it's a total score which marks it.

miki88

bekalc

I certainly didn't think all the other ladies looked hesitant and scared.

I disagree that Mao looked hesitant or scared at that performance.

I agree with you here. I think no one looked scared or hesitant including Yuna.

I just watched Mao and Yuna's program back to back. I found that rewatching the programs, I found them to be about even. Mao's program still fails to move me, but it was a clear improvement from Vancouver, where she got a higher PCS?! And Yuna's program, as someone said earlier, did not have the same spark.

You found them about even, because they are about even, and the points reflect that
What I did right now is watching again Mao's program at Worlds and then at Olympics. Just my opinion, I think she was better artistically there than at Worlds. You just have to see her face near the end of the program, she was acting her role perfectly. But it's hard to judge Mao... This program is all about little details.

rtureck

Daniel, why compare? As a YuNa fan you will fulfill your job description to make YuNa look much better at the conclusion of your so call analysis.

Don't worry, I don't take this lightheartedly. Unlike some other people, I try not to hurt others (but I seem to never succeed), so if I would write something, I would write it in not a serious way. Then how you can know, maybe it's Michelle who would be clear winner. I'm a fan of Yuna, but that doesn't mean that I think that she has to win everything no matter what. Then most likely I won't write a thing, because I really hate comparisons like those (and if I write I will show it to someone else before to know exactly how much it sucks).

 

[chloepoco]

Is this insulting? It's my opinion and an honest impression I got from the skaters. Also, I didn't intend it to specifically target to Mao or any specific skater---it was an impression I had of the skaters in general at the ladies event.

I've seen you say much rude things before. In fact, some people have mentioned this to you before. So isn't it a little hypocritical to say the least, to be criticizing anyone about the tone of their posts?

Yes, I do think it's insulting to the skaters, any skater, when you say they look like amateurs, hesitant and scared. And I have never insulted any of the SKATERS.

 

[Figure88]

Yes, I do think it's insulting to the skaters, any skater, when you say they look like amateurs, hesitant and scared. And I have never insulted any of the SKATERS.

Saying that someone appeared amateurish, hesistant and scared is tame considering the degree of comments made on this board. In any case, as I've said it's my impression, you can agree or disagree.

 

[Olympia]

It is an obscure piece from a not so obscure composer villa lobos, I guess only Loir is capable of finding gems among obscure pieces

Dvorak's dumky is a much more well known piece. I believe it is a Czech dance. Again kudos to Lori who combined 2 different pieces of music seamlessly. By the way, I still haven't figure out how Michelle made it work so well at worlds wearing a rhaspberry color costume (of that was not the costume of her choice, but the airline lost her luggage).

I think DOD is another program that showcase Lori's brilliance. She combinef 2 pieces of music seamlessly also. In this case the adagio of 4 godesses from Gliere's Red Poppy, and Massenet's Herodiade

I am not surprised that someone with the screen name rtureck is so interested in and well informed about music. I'd forgotten about the DOD program! Yes, I vaguely remember thinking that that was Massenet when I heard it, but I'm not sure I would have recognized the Gliere. Lori seems to be the choreographer with the deepest knowledge of music, and that's just one of the many reasons I love her work so much. Several people have mentioned that Michelle seemed to be the ideal vessel for Nichol's creativity, and certainly they each brought out something in the other that has never been equaled.

Speaking of Gliere, do you remember that program Moskvina created for Berezhnaya and Sikharulidze (my apologies for the misspellings) set to Gliere's Concerto for Coloratura? It was a woman's voice singing wordlessly, used as a musical instrument rather than as a singer, so I guess it passed muster with the judges. I just love encountering some really effective but rarely used piece in a skating program.

 

[Bennett]

So what? I like both girls, and I even prefer Yu-na. But on this occassion I felt Yu-na out skated Mao. I disagree that Mao looked hesitant or scared at that performance. Asada gave a lovely performance.

From bekalc's posts, I have certainly known that he/she likes both skaters and even prefers Yuna. But there should be nothing wrong if a poster is a Mao/Yuna fan, too. I find an atmosphere annoying where you are not saved from persistent attacks and twisted inerpretations without making a defensive statement like that.

 

[Figure88]

From bekalc's posts, I have certainly known that he/she likes both skaters and even prefers Yuna. But there should be nothing wrong if a poster is a Mao/Yuna fan, too. I find an atmosphere annoying where you are not saved from persistent attacks and twisted inerpretations without making a defensive statement like that.

I don't know anything about that poster or his/her preferences. I was merely responding to the last paragraph where he/she talked about the lack of "spark" in Yuna's world's performance compared to the Olympics as justification for lower scores. Defensive statements/personal attacks/twisted interpretations---you're accusations don't really make sense.

 

[bekalc]

I don't know anything about that poster or his/her preferences. I was merely responding to the last paragraph where he/she talked about the lack of "spark" in Yuna's world's performance compared to the Olympics as justification for lower scores. Defensive statements/personal attacks/twisted interpretations---you're accusations don't really make sense.

Well the person was saying before that it was only Yu-na's fall that was the problem. And I was just saying Yu-na wasn't as good as she normally was. I was trying to point out that PCS can't just be about preset ideas. And if its only about choregraphy/transitions than its Preset ideas.

If this had been 6.0, Mao would have won the long program. Because 6.0 for all of its issues actually valued clean programs. I don't want everything about 6.0 back, but I'd like that aspect.

 

[youtubo]

"Who is going to challenge her?" Hamilton asks, the question rhetorical. "No one is going to beat her. She is going to have to beat herself." Scott Hamilton, NBC

"Under this new way of evaluating skating and expecting so much from skaters, Yuna distanced herself from the field by the overall, endless quality of her excellence," Scott Hamilton, NBC

 

[rtureck]

"Who is going to challenge her?" Hamilton asks, the question rhetorical. "No one is going to beat her. She is going to have to beat herself." Scott Hamilton, NBC

So you are saying YuNa was being self defeating at worlds? Why? She mentioned she was "scared" a few times. "Scared" of what ? Scared of success? Scared of failure?

 

[sunny0760]

So you are saying YuNa was being self defeating at worlds? Why? She mentioned she was "scared" a few times. "Scared" of what ? Scared of success? Scared of failure?

Scott said so after SP in olys. Even before LP, he said, "No one is going to beat her." And he was right.
http://articles.latimes.com/2010/feb/25/sports/la-sp-olympics-womens-figures25-2010feb25

Your question is meant to ask Scott but if you want to ask another poster, it would be like, "Do you think she defeated herself at worlds?"
If you ask me, I would say yes. Now she is telling more about her 'slump' after the olys. This kind of crisis after the victory was much more than what she imagined it shoud be. She bombed at SP but did not give up anyways.
Don't know about athletes' psychology - which she says she wants to learn - . Nevertheless, I want to to her.

About your next questions, I feel irrelevant hostility toward both Yuna and Yuna fans there. (Are you not meaning it? If so, I will apologize.) Are you asking those questions to youtubo? How could the poster answer that? According to interview, she was afaid that she would not be able to do as well at the worlds as at the olys. Everybody can go through depression and loss of motivation etc. We can only assume.

 

[rtureck]

Scott said so after SP in olys. Even before LP, he said, "No one is going to beat her." And he was right.
http://articles.latimes.com/2010/feb/25/sports/la-sp-olympics-womens-figures25-2010feb25

This is a thread about world lp, I don't know why youtube is bringing in scott's comment about olympics here?? This is a world thread and in Torino, the second best skater won silver. If YuNa fans want to talk about olys, I believe there are plenty of olys thread around

If you ask me, I would say yes.

I won't disagree, since you are a YuNa fan

Don't know about athletes' psychology - which she says she wants to learn -

Oh well, YuNa can learn what ever she wants

About your next questions, I feel irrelevant hostility toward both Yuna and Yuna fans there. (Are you not meaning it? If so, I will apologize.) Are you asking those questions to youtubo? How could the poster answer that? According to interview, she was afaid that she would not be able to do as well at the worlds as at the olys. Everybody can go through depression and loss of motivation etc. We can only assume.

I am curious about why she was so "scared", it is not irrlevant because she brought the topic up. How is that hostile to her or her fans??? YuNa brought that up. I did not read her interview, but if she stated in the interview that she was afraid she would not be able to do as well, then she answered my question. The "scared" was afraid of "failure". About everybody can go through depression and loss of motivation, yeah I totally understand. I still haven't read her interview, but since you are YuNa fan, and you must have read her interview 1000x, are you telling me that YuNa went through depression and loss of motivation?? Did she really said that? or are you as a YuNa fan drawing conclusion from her interview.

Anyway, this is a world lp thread, I prefer to talk about world LP.

 

[dlgpffps]

Did she really said that? or are you as a YuNa fan drawing conclusion from her interview.

She said it in several interviews. It was also in an English news article, which you can search for yourself. Why are you so hostile? I'm not sunny0760, but I can easily answer this. Anyone can disagree. It's your attitude that probably stings.

Anyway, this is a world lp thread, I prefer to talk about world LP

The poster obviously just meant that Yu-na's difficult to beat when she's on, which she wasn't at Worlds. Admitting that Yu-na wasn't at her best doesn't take anything away from Mao's victory. It's Yu-na's fault that she wasn't, not anyone else's. One's skating ability makes up half of the fight. One's ability to bring it to to the rink makes the other.

 

[youtubo]

"Who is going to challenge her?" Hamilton asks, the question rhetorical. "No one is going to beat her. She is going to have to beat herself." Scott Hamilton, NBC

"Under this new way of evaluating skating and expecting so much from skaters, Yuna distanced herself from the field by the overall, endless quality of her excellence," Scott Hamilton, NBC
I think YuNa was not able to beat herself at World.

 

[Basics]

So you are saying YuNa was being self defeating at worlds? Why? She mentioned she was "scared" a few times. "Scared" of what ? Scared of success? Scared of failure?

she just doesn't like big competitions and all the media attention. I think she just wasn't ready to feel that nerve once again, specially right after accomplishing her biggest goal.

 

[rtureck]

She said it in several interviews. It was also in an English news article, which you can search for yourself. Why are you so hostile? I'm not sunny0760, but I can easily answer this. Anyone can disagree. It's your attitude that probably stings.

Hold a min, I think hostile is your attitude here. I asked Sunny a simple question, "Did YuNa really said that or was that Sunny's conclusion". A simple question, so please stop your accusation of hostility. You come across as "hostile" and "sting".

The poster obviously just meant that Yu-na's difficult to beat when she's on, which she wasn't at Worlds. Admitting that Yu-na wasn't at her best doesn't take anything away from Mao's victory. It's Yu-na's fault that she wasn't, not anyone else's. One's skating ability makes up half of the fight. One's ability to bring it to to the rink makes the other.

No the poster was not "obviiously saying that YuNa is difficutl to beat". Difficult to beat still means she is beatable by another skater. The poster was saying that only YuNa canbeat herself, i.e. no skater in the whole wide world can beat her. The poster quoted Scott "no one is going to beat her". There is a difference b/w "it is difficult to beat' and "no one is going to beat her". I can see that you are saying YuNa is difficult to beat, and you are not trying to take away from Mao's victory. But I was not talking to you, I was talking to youtubo.

"Who is going to challenge her?" Hamilton asks, the question rhetorical. "No one is going to beat her. She is going to have to beat herself." Scott Hamilton, NBC

This is a comment about olys, so again why bring up in a world thread??? Anyway by quoting Scott are you saying that YuNa is unbeatable by another skater and only YuNa herself is capable of beating herself?

"Under this new way of evaluating skating and expecting so much from skaters, Yuna distanced herself from the field by the overall, endless quality of her excellence," Scott Hamilton, NBC
I think YuNa was not able to beat herself at World.

What is the point here. I think you were quoting Scott to say that YuNa is unbeatable by anyskater in the whole wide world in your original post, that only YuNa herself is capable of beating herself, then you turn around and said YuNa is not able to beat herself at worlds. If she is "not able to beat herself at world", then you are saying that YuNa was beatable by another skater?? Which was exactly what happened she was beaten by another skater, and YuNawas the second best skater at Turino.

 

[sunny0760]

rtureck seems to ask youtubo whether Yuna is beatable or unbeatable but this is my two cents.

Yuna was/is beatable and will be beatable if she continues to compete. However, in a way, she has been quite in the realm of (rhetorically) 'unbeatable,' at least, since 2009. Though she did not win at worlds, if she continues, everyone will consider her as a gold threat not just a podium threat.

The 'unbeatable' reminds me of Federer in 2005~2006. That doesn't mean he never lost during that time - conversely, he had never won the French Open until last year - but he was just invincible, formidable back then. Now he is still great but I don't think he has the same unbeatable image. I think Witt also had her own share of the unbeatable image/status for certain years. Among the current competitors, Yuna is the closest to that.

Since Yuna's senior debut, her record at the international competitions has been overwhelming and since 2009 more dominant. No doubt about it.
SP winning rate 71% (20/28)
LP winning rate 71% (20/28)
Total winning rate 71% (20/28) (the 2nd 5 times, the 3rd 3 times)
This rate is comparable to Witt - little bit lower than her, I think - and she is the only figure skater in history who has never been off the podium.

After seeing her SP at worlds 2010, I thought she might end in the 4th or below. The SP was probably one of the worst performances of her whole career. Well, her LP was much better but not so stellar as what she had done before. If other skaters had done better, they might have put her off the podium. Mao deservedly won but 2010 Worlds verified this. If other skaters were to beat Yuna, they should clean AND wait for Yuna's several mistakes. If they makes a few mistakes or gets DGs, they should wait for Yuna's SEVERE mistakes.

This LP may be Yuna's last competitive performance. Hopefully, it may not. Even though she continues, this 'rhetorically unbeatable' status will change someday. When and how the day comes is not known yet.