Li Zijun

[Eclair]

Well, Mishin is coaching her now, at least until CoC is over. And this arrangement with Mishin was planned for some time because he talked about this several weeks ago.

without main coach I meant, of course a lesson here and there with mishin is great right before CoR, but throughout the summer and leading to CoR Zijun trained alone which is huge feast to accomplish.

Actually, I think Zijun should continue to sit alone in the kiss & cry as long as she doesn't have a main coach, since that would really show the judges and fans what she's doing.

As for the music I was thrilled by her choice when I heard that she picked it in the summer. In the BESP youtube video the sound quality was not good and I wondered whether there was a problem with the CD or mp3 file, but I have now watched other broadcasts, and the sound quality somehow was a lot better there.

 

[Eclair]

I realize you are an appreciative fan. But I wonder what you and qwertyskate think would help her. You disagree with her scores, which fans do all the time, but what do you intend to do for "justice"? We cannot change scores and results. We are not judges and we are not even at the competition. Is it desirable that all disgruntled fans get their "justice"? She knows where she stands, and I hope she keeps up her motivation to do even better so higher marks have to be given her. It's part of being competitive. Positive mindset and actions, not complaints, will get a person very far.

As fans we support her with positive energy, not put her in a corner with demands she can do nothing about. I'd rather celebrate her and her performances.

Since judges have come by and read this forum in the past, my complaints were for them to see, even if the chance was slim. Also my complaints are for forum readers to realize how badly she's been treated, since I think, especially in the SP, this was overlooked by many, because they were so excited for Yulia. I agree though, that this should be happenening in the competition threats more than in her fanfest. It's just your post about how everything was great ticked me off since I felt the placement was so unfair.

 

[Eclair]

On a lighter note, Zijun posted this in her Instagramm: know that I am not alone!!! Thank you for everyone to be with me ...

with a pic of her alone in the Kiss and Cry :luv17: here's the link to the tweet:

https://www.instagram.com/p/BMcYKm_jzQL/?taken-by=lizijunn

 

[klutzonice]

I personally really like her free skate program this season. The music is unconventional in the sense that it doesn't have an arc like what we're used to hearing with figure skating music, but I feel Zijun can make it work for her. And honestly, for every one complaint that her music/skate/program/whatever is dull, there will be so many others who will say the opposite and are mesmerised by her presence on the ice (I am one of the enthusiastic latter).
I'm very content with her performances at Rostelecom and I know the next one will be even better She's done so well for herself this summer and she should definitely be so proud of what she's achieved!

 

[Violet Bliss]

I personally really like her free skate program this season. The music is unconventional in the sense that it doesn't have an arc like what we're used to hearing with figure skating music, but I feel Zijun can make it work for her. And honestly, for every one complaint that her music/skate/program/whatever is dull, there will be so many others who will say the opposite and are mesmerised by her presence on the ice (I am one of the enthusiastic latter).
I'm very content with her performances at Rostelecom and I know the next one will be even better She's done so well for herself this summer and she should definitely be so proud of what she's achieved!

:2thumbs:

 

[skatefan22]

According to an interview of the Chinese fed, Zijun trained alone in her hometown for about a month then encountered lots of problems, so she returned to Beijing where the national team is based and trained there for a month before coming to COR.

 

[Violet Bliss]

Since judges have come by and read this forum in the past, my complaints were for them to see, even if the chance was slim. Also my complaints are for forum readers to realize how badly she's been treated, since I think, especially in the SP, this was overlooked by many, because they were so excited for Yulia. I agree though, that this should be happenening in the competition threats more than in her fanfest. It's just your post about how everything was great ticked me off since I felt the placement was so unfair.

I understand you feel strongly and badly for Zijun about the scores. Scores perceived to be unfair, usually by the ardent fans of the skaters involved, never get resolved with debates or change any competition results. You feel the need for expressing your indignance but dwelling on it does nothing good for you or Zijun. Better to support her with love and encouragement, letting her know how much she is appreciated and her effort has paid off. This is her season debut and a feedback opportunity for her to know where she stands with the judges and where to improve. E.g. she has two costly UR calls so she needs to get those jumps to be impeccable with no possibility of UR calls from any Tech Panel. That's what champions do, with positive investments of energy as opposed to defending debatable margin of error. As fans, we can support that kind of mindset for her to keep improving.

Zijun has a natural grace and star quality that few have no matter how hard they try. This is her advantage that cannot be taken from her. As well, she has demonstrated the strength of her character. Technical improvements are certain with the right training. Mishin most likely can help her in that aspect. I look forward to seeing her next performances and her progress over the season.

 

[qwertyskates]

Zijun just asserted herself with her independence and accomplished the best result of the couple of years with a great performance that is loved by many fans, raved by commentators and received high marks from the judges. I am not about to let the celebration be quashed by one insistent critic going to great length to denounce her music choice. However the music inspires and resonates with her, it works for her and that's what matters. She has seasons ahead to choose other music for her expressive skating.

Congratulations, Zijun, for the eye opening, fan gaining, and confidence building GP performances and results. May this be the new beginning of a brilliant career befitting the most graceful and elegant Lady today.

I used to have some respect for you but you are being extremely offensive here, not to mention passive/aggressive.

We are on a forum where we are FREE to voice opinions, and opinions that are backed up by empirical points if possible.

My opinion is her skating was at a level much higher than the scores she was given, and her music might be a problem because along with a couple of fans, we felt it doesn't accentuate her program, and we explained WHY. We saw a possible problem, and try to think about ways for her to receive better scores.

I take offense that you are describing this as a terrible deed/action to "quash" her.

If you don't agree, instead of resorting to personal attacks, explain why you think she should be happy with this result, and how her music has helped her achieve the result she deserves this time.:sarcasm:

Otherwise, please put me on your IGNORE list, do not read my post, do not address them in your passive-aggressive manner, I'd happily return the favour?

Others have been putting up threads to tear skaters' techniques and programs apart. Many on GS complained about Shoma's FS with the lady singing. Nobody describes this as "quashing" Shoma by "insistent critics".

I hardly think that you are in the position to be the Be All and End All of opinions.

The truth is Zijun was HARSHLY marked here. All your "positivity" can't disguise this fact.
Most commentators, I heard Eurosport, another post mentioned German commentators, etc. were SURPRISED at her marks by the judges and thought they saw a skate that was brilliant. As did I. SHE HAS BEEN LOW-BALLED. Period.

Judges should perhaps LISTEN to the Commentators if not her fans that this result was unfair.

You're the only one who says, how fantastic, how great, we can't influence judges so let's all be positive and magically all will be well for Zijun. Those who shared the Commentators' opinions are doing her a disservice, etc. etc. "Critics" of her music choice are only trying to "quash" her, etc., etc.

All your "congratulations" ring fake, nothing to congratulate her about, she didn't podium, lost to Hicks by 1+ pts for a medal., and won't likely make it to GPF and her PCS WERE DEFINITELY low-balled. These are facts.

If enough attention is drawn to the remarks and observations, by experts and fans, that she was unfairly scored, perhaps the judges might give some constructive feedback why, or take some care to not repeat the injustice. To them, it's just another skater, to Zijun it's her career and future.

 

[yyyskate]

me after watch Zijun's FS with ear phone: ::sad21:

 

[Violet Bliss]

qwertyskate, I only want to explain that I didn't want my celebration of Zijun and her performance be quashed by a determined criticism of her music choice. I have never accused you or anybody trying to quash her. We all have our opinions and you of course have a very different and strong emphasis from my focus on her accomplishment.

 

[qwertyskates]

Even if you don't like Last Emperor, try this experiment, play Zijun's FS with music off and with Lena's Turandot instead. Even though Z's FS piece is much slower and softer, her skating speed can still do Turandot's big aria justice. In fact, I think Zijun's second half "Turandot" is superior to Lena's in every possible way, clean jumps, lots of choreography, ina bauer, spread eagle, spins, Lena was doing a lot of crossovers and she FELL on her jump. Zijun can skate BIG

Zijun's

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NTZqrv4FUY

Lena's

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5ZkXgdlwto

Why doesn't her skating pop for the judges and those who still think her "stamina issues" deserve the lower PCS? That's the burning question.

 

[qwertyskates]

qwertyskate, I only want to explain that I didn't want my celebration of Zijun and her performance be quashed by a determined criticism of her music choice. I have never accused you or anybody trying to quash her. We all have our opinions and you of course have a very different and strong emphasis from my focus on her accomplishment.

Critiquing music choice is not permissible on GS? I think your original post speaks for itself.

Zijun wants to win, she has the goods, yet why is she getting low-balled? There are those who feel that she has "stamina issues", can't tackle big programs, so her PCS is low. I only speak for myself but I dont think it's true, she's stronger than before, nor should she just accept all these opinions, her low PCS and "celebrate" her 4th position, 5th if not for Yulia's accident.

 

[Violet Bliss]

Critiquing music choice is not permissible on GS?

My choice to not have my joy and celebration of Zijun quashed is equally permissible.

 

[yyyskate]

Zijun maybe could learn from Yuna also how to braid her hair or comb her hair or tie her hair or gel her hair. whatever that is , that they do. Just look at Yuna's hair and makeup never a smudge. Yet, Zijun's hair is alway floating freely
Zijun is a classical Chinese beauty, deserve the best hair style and makeup.:luv17:

 

[klutzonice]

I used to have some respect for you but you are being extremely offensive here, not to mention passive/aggressive.

We are on a forum where we are FREE to voice opinions, and opinions that are backed up by empirical points if possible.

My opinion is her skating was at a level much higher than the scores she was given, and her music might be a problem because along with a couple of fans, we felt it doesn't accentuate her program, and we explained WHY. We saw a possible problem, and try to think about ways for her to receive better scores.

I take offense that you are describing this as a terrible deed/action to "quash" her.

If you don't agree, instead of resorting to personal attacks, explain why you think she should be happy with this result, and how her music has helped her achieve the result she deserves this time.:sarcasm:

Otherwise, please put me on your IGNORE list, do not read my post, do not address them in your passive-aggressive manner, I'd happily return the favour?

Others have been putting up threads to tear skaters' techniques and programs apart. Many on GS complained about Shoma's FS with the lady singing. Nobody describes this as "quashing" Shoma by "insistent critics".

I hardly think that you are in the position to be the Be All and End All of opinions.

The truth is Zijun was HARSHLY marked here. All your "positivity" can't disguise this fact.
Most commentators, I heard Eurosport, another post mentioned German commentators, etc. were SURPRISED at her marks by the judges and thought they saw a skate that was brilliant. As did I. SHE HAS BEEN LOW-BALLED. Period.

Judges should perhaps LISTEN to the Commentators if not her fans that this result was unfair.

You're the only one who says, how fantastic, how great, we can't influence judges so let's all be positive and magically all will be well for Zijun. Those who shared the Commentators' opinions are doing her a disservice, etc. etc. "Critics" of her music choice are only trying to "quash" her, etc., etc.

All your "congratulations" ring fake, nothing to congratulate her about, she didn't podium, lost to Hicks by 1+ pts for a medal., and won't likely make it to GPF and her PCS WERE DEFINITELY low-balled. These are facts.

If enough attention is drawn to the remarks and observations, by experts and fans, that she was unfairly scored, perhaps the judges might give some constructive feedback why, or take some care to not repeat the injustice. To them, it's just another skater, to Zijun it's her career and future.

Apologies for chiming in if this is unwarranted, but these are my two cents:
1) Fan Fests are a place for us to celebrate a skater's efforts. I appreciate you praising Zijun's skating, but your insistence that her music is terrible and is a "problem" seems like "quashing" to me. Yes, we are on a forum; yes, your opinions are valid. This just may not be the right place for it. The threads that you mentioned being put up to "tear skaters apart" are started in The Edge. Maybe someone should start a new thread there to diss skaters' music choices this season. Anyway, I personally like the music and the program, but as you seem to have your mind made up I won't attempt to justify my opinion.

2) There is a LOT to congratulate Zijun on: her training without a main coach, two clean programs at the beginning of the season (overlooking the UR), and she was able to pull off a lutz with the correct edge (albeit a double). I think you're being harsh on Violet by claiming her posts are, essentially, positively fake. This is a Fan Fest, she is allowed to gush.

3) Score-wise, I was disappointed too, but if you compare what she's received here with the start of last season, you'll notice that it's gone up, particularly PCS. At NHK 2015, she received ~60 for her SP, ~105 for her LP(obviously there were mistakes because of her stamina issues back then). Here, her scores are ~63 for SP, ~117 for LP. And her PCS have gone up slightly since her Worlds' performances, which were her best ones of last season.

You're the only one who says, how fantastic, how great, we can't influence judges so let's all be positive and magically all will be well for Zijun. Those who shared the Commentators' opinions are doing her a disservice, etc. etc. "Critics" of her music choice are only trying to "quash" her, etc., etc.

This line made me shiver a little. Okay, so if being positive won't help Zijun, being negative will? In any case, the only thing for her to do is move forward with the scores she has received.

And oops I just realised I have spent a little too long writing this

 

[Violet Bliss]

Zijun maybe could learn from Yuna also how to braid her hair or comb her hair or tie her hair or gel her hair. whatever that is , that they do. Just look at Yuna's hair and makeup never a smudge. Yet, Zijun's hair is alway floating freely
Zijun is a classical Chinese beauty, deserve the best hair style and makeup.:luv17:

She gets loads of accolades for her costume choices.

 

[yyyskate]

She gets loads of accolades for her costume choices.

yes, Zijun always has one of the best costumse among current crop of lady skaters. Also her beautiful body shape and proportions helps.
but her hairs and makeup are not always the best. She has joked that she can afford to compete on international stage, without any makeup (hint her nature beauty).
That is only a joke though. however, her team's experience in hair and makeup is really not that professional.

 

[skatefan22]

I don't think judges are not nice to her. Look at her SP, the second triple of 3T-3T can well have a UR call also the 2A, but they gave her a go.

 

[qwertyskates]

Okay, so if being positive won't help Zijun, being negative will? In any case, the only thing for her to do is move forward with the scores she has received.

There is no doubt some controversy about the position and scores she received here, not just from some of us but from the sports commentators. They are not usually prone to speak out loud that the score's not fair but they did. I agreed with them as well, because I was noticing her skating, but also noticed that the music is not providing accents for her jumps and choreography to pop. She skated with a good speed but everyone commented she was slow and lacked energy. Just keeping her boxed in this way with a fixed opinion of her potential not to be able to skate to bigger programs, that's doing her a disservice because in the end, she wants to move up and to get to the top tier again with the big girls.

What types of music and programs are winning? It's not by accident but by design, and quite expensive design. The right music and program make the skater stand out and receive higher PCS scores.

Feedback will help her on her way closer to her goal. It's not being "negative" to point out certain quite obvious facts, such as her current FS is not getting high PCS for a relatively clean, strong skate. The scores are there to see - and definitely these are low-ish PCS. Opinions are at 2 extremes, one favourable (she skated better than her scores) and another that she's done her best but her lower PCS (stamina, etc.) is justified so let's celebrate even with her 4th position.

Her crushed expression says it all - she thought her scores would be higher. She was thinking closer to the first group, and probably asking Why herself.

Examining the "Why" I don't see as negative, but you do. Saying she lacks stamina, so needs more timid programs, etc., as a boxed stereotype of her skating to me is more negative.

Skaters tweak their programs all the time, hoping to get better and better. They change their style, they up their technicals, they grow, and they grow "bigger" and move up. A growth mindset is open to feedback and to change, a closed mindset is accepting things as they are.

I congratulated her for her great performance, she's improved so much, she's really good. There're no jarring weaknesses in her FS skate itself, but it isn't "popping" and getting loud applause. A different more stirring music to the exact same skate just might. It's the perception of her, not her substance, that's hurting her scores.

I honestly don't see that as "quashing a skater". Telling her that she still doesn't deserve better (because of stamina, speed, etc.,) does. In the end, she wants to progress up the rankings, she wants better scores, she wants to win. There's also that nagging "Why" about the scores which commentators agreed on. If she doesn't conquer this she will languish in the same low ranking, low PCS territory.

 

[klutzonice]

Thank you for clarifying your comments. I honestly do respect your opinion, it's just that every time you said her music was a "miserable wail" I took that to heart.
Her music is unconventional, as I said before, but that doesn't mean it can't work. I think her skating suits the music style, and at the moment her program/choreography is very nuanced and subtle (and to use the words of the BESP commentator, "understated"), but not lacking in potential at all. I'm expecting that she will work to express herself more over the course of the season. I'm of the opinion that she CAN sell this program, but it's okay if you don't feel that way.

At this stage I don't even know how PCS is determined anymore. I try not to compare one skater's results with another's because that always opens up a can of worms for me... although it's valid to compare against others, since this is a competitive environment. On the other hand, the athlete (Zijun) shouldn't be thinking things like "oh I only received this, when skater ABC received this" rather, "these are the scores I received. What can I do from this point on?" The season has already started, the only thing she can really do is just train.