Lysacek optimistic his issues with U.S. skating close to resolution

[pangtongfan]

I never liked Goebels skating at all (although one has to admire his still unparalled proficiency with the quad salchow) but he seemed like a really nice guy. I was sad how his career fizzled out and he had physical pain after his retirement.

 

[Buttercup]

Wow! Thank you for the link and the quote, Buttercup and seniorita! I never knew that Buttle has done any successful quad at a competition! Looks like he did:

Buttle's SP at 2003 4CC

In hindsight, even sans quad, Buttle could have done really well if he'd stuck through to Vancouver; his style and abilities were ideally suited to 2008-10 CoP, and with the world championship to his credit, his PCS would have reflected it. But I understand the desire to go out a champion and move on to other things. I've caught some of his gala performances since and he's such a good show skater.

 

[pangtongfan]

Barring terrible corrupt judging a clean Buttle (no quad attempts needed) would have easily beaten Evan in Vancouver. Granted Buttle didnt do many clean LPs, but 1 or 2 mistakes still should have left him good vs Evan. Especialy since Evan might have never become World Champion had Jeff stayed in, and Jeff would have been on his home ice. In fact in the event Evan didnt win the 2009 Worlds he is probably placed below Plushenko, Takahashi, and Lambiel at the Olympics for the exact same performances.

 

[Mathman]

I never liked Goebels skating at all (although one has to admire his still unparalled proficiency with the quad salchow) but he seemed like a really nice guy. I was sad how his career fizzled out and he had physical pain after his retirement.

Goebel did not have a dancer's posture or natural grace of movement. But he gathered the talent that the Good Lord in His wisdom did choose to bless him with and he took it to the mountain.

I always wanted him to skate to this, changing the lyrics to "Quad Man."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3ZdheRKzMk

 

[seniorita]

^ Plus he became a mathematician I read

 

[Mathman]

^ I believe he went into investment banking or something of the sort. He is prbably rich now.

 

[mskater93]

Exerpt from IN article:
Now an analytic consultant for Nielsen after earning a degree in mathematics from Columbia, Goebel's days on ice have become a thing of the past. Still, he served as an emcee at "Skate for the Goal" and was eager to help the cause.

He also shared some new aspirations within the sport.

"I'm a technical specialist," he said. "I'm actually going to go and get recertified soon. I still coach a little bit. This is actually my third time out as an emcee for a benefit show, so I definitely want to stay involved in skating."

"I want to get more into the political side."

As for actually skating again, he said humorously, "I just don't really enjoy skating myself anymore. Training for nationals was infinitely more painful than senior finals week at Columbia."

"[Nationals] is like if you got your organic chemistry final and they said, 'Oh haha, just kidding. You have one hour instead of three.'"

 

[mskater93]

Back on topic: Lysacek was seen doing a beautiful 3Lz+1Lo+3F the other day.

 

[Olympia]

Exerpt from IN article:
Now an analytic consultant for Nielsen after earning a degree in mathematics from Columbia, Goebel's days on ice have become a thing of the past. Still, he served as an emcee at "Skate for the Goal" and was eager to help the cause.

He also shared some new aspirations within the sport.

"I'm a technical specialist," he said. "I'm actually going to go and get recertified soon. I still coach a little bit. This is actually my third time out as an emcee for a benefit show, so I definitely want to stay involved in skating."

"I want to get more into the political side."

As for actually skating again, he said humorously, "I just don't really enjoy skating myself anymore. Training for nationals was infinitely more painful than senior finals week at Columbia."

"[Nationals] is like if you got your organic chemistry final and they said, 'Oh haha, just kidding. You have one hour instead of three.'"

Thanks for the information. I continue to like and admire Goebel, who as Mathman said took what talent he had and worked it to the last inch. I'm so glad Goebel has seen fit to continue in skating. I hope he pops up somewhere that we can notice him, as an emcee or sitting among the technical experts for some televised competition, or with a student he coaches.

 

[SkateFan66]

Back on topic: Lysacek was seen doing a beautiful 3Lz+1Lo+3F the other day.

I wonder if Lysacek will replace the 3Lz+3T with the 3Lz+1Lo+3F, or if he will do both? His 3Lz+3T was always gorgeous.

 

[Mathman]

Welcome to the forum, SkateFan66. Thanks for jooining us. Post often, post long!

 

[seniorita]

I wonder if Lysacek will replace the 3Lz+3T with the 3Lz+1Lo+3F, or if he will do both?

Both in the same program? These would be two 3lz in combo.
But I d love to see the Loop combo!

 

[Mathman]

^ That's a good point for any skater trying to work in one of those half-loop things. The Zayak rules kind of put the Kibosh on using a Lutz and a Flip in the same pass.

For instance, Lysacek could try

3A+3T
3S
------------------------------
(second half )

3Lz+half-loop+3F
Lo
3A
3Lz+2T (why bother with the 2T?)
2A

And then for his eight pass...2A (or 4T ).

 

[SkateFan66]

Both in the same program? These would be two 3lz in combo.
But I d love to see the Loop combo!

I remember Lysacek doing a 4T+3T and 3A+3T at 2007 4CC. Therefore, I thought if a skater can do two 3T combos then they could do two 3Lz combos. Guess I was wrong. However, it would be interesting to see.

 

[seniorita]

^ No maybe I am wrong or Mathman now confused me, can you do 2 3Lutzes both in combo? So long I thought it goes like: one of the repeated jump should be in combo. Oy ..

Edit: I found my second question in the rules.

 

[ImaginaryPogue]

I remember Lysacek doing a 4T+3T and 3A+3T at 2007 4CC. Therefore, I thought if a skater can do two 3T combos then they could do two 3Lz combos. Guess I was wrong. However, it would be interesting to see.

They can. It's just that there is rarely a benefit for doing two combinations with the same opening jump. It's okay if you have a quad as you have that extra option, but as you see in Mathman's example, Lyscek without a quad would have to have two separate jumping passes consisting of solo 2As. With a quad (let's shove that first) you only have to have one, and that's normal now for the men.

 

[Mathman]

^ And it's a disadvantage to do 4T+3T and 3A+3T (or any two combos ending in 3T), because that uses up one of your two allowed repeated jumps on a mere 3T.

It must be really hard to do a combo ending in 3Lo, because it seems like that would be an attractive option CoP-wise.

 

[Serious Business]

With regards to Evan's new combo: If Lysacek doesn't do a quad, he'd have to do a 3Lz/1Lo/3F and a 2a instead of 3F/2t/2Lo and a 3Lz, that's an increase of only .6 in base value. And with the GOE lost because the scale of value on a 2a is lower than that of a 3Lz, it would likely erase the difference. However, he might be banking that judges will raise his PCS because of the combo, I wouldn't, though. It's not that impressive with the quads going around. It would actually make more sense for Evan to do a 2a/1Lo/3F and a 3Lz instead.

 

[SkateFan66]

Based on an interview with Frank Carroll at Skate America, Evan has a quad in his long program. Furthermore, based upon Evan's Hersh interview, he is planning 6 tripples in the second half of his program. And it appears that Evan is training a 3Lz+1Lo+3F combo. Therefore Evan could try:

4T
3A
3S

-- (half way )

3A+2T
3Lz+1Lo+3F
3Lz+3T
3Lo
2A

 

[Violet Bliss]

Based on an interview with Frank Carroll at Skate America, Evan has a quad in his long program. Furthermore, based upon Evan's Hersh interview, he is planning 6 tripples in the second half of his program. And it appears that Evan is training a 3Lz+1Lo+3F combo. Therefore Evan could try:

4T
3A
3S

-- (half way )

3A+2T
3Lz+1Lo+3F
3Lz+3T
3Lo
2A

So you expect Evan to do 23 rotations in the later half vs 10.5 in the first half of his program? Or 9 jumps vs 3 in the top half?