Making a World Record: Hanyu's Long Program

[Sam-Skwantch]

It's a great video and as someone who has dabbled in editing videos I can only imagine the time and effort it took. The videos I made were always silly and put together with zero technical details the likes of this and yet I found myself spending hours and days toiling over them sometimes. Hats off to the makers :yes:

Personally I cant help but loathe the concept of counting steps and think GOE is a very subjective area that while intriguing can become a rather nasty mine field to discuss. And yet in spite of my personal tendency to shy away from such topics ...I still enjoyed the video and the overload of details actually kept me interested and even a little entertained. Anyone else find themselves pausing a lot?

Anyway....aside from acknowledging the efforts of those involved with putting this together I'd like to add that while it's fascinating to see the skeleton that makes the bones of an amazing performance I really think it's the charisma with which he does it that makes the difference. He has a style that exudes confidence and composure while executing very intricate layouts. While he has been a trailblazer for technical wizardry and pushing the envelope....I think his character is what people will remember.

 

[andromache]

Anyway....aside from acknowledging the efforts of those involved with putting this together I'd like to add that while it's fascinating to see the skeleton that makes the bones of an amazing performance I really think it's the charisma with which he does it that makes the difference. He has a style that exudes confidence and composure while executing very intricate layouts. While he has been a trailblazer for technical wizardry and pushing the envelope....I think his character is what people will remember.

I actually think the confidence and composure works against him sometimes - I often get the impression that his movements seem a little rushed or unfinished, with a lack of full intention / emotional commitment. But because he's doing SO MUCH, I think that's inevitable. Skaters like Ashley Wagner and Javi do way less than Hanyu does but emotionally commit to 100% of each and every movement, whereas Hanyu does more and at times doesn't commit 100% or seems like he is going through the motions.

Aside from on-ice character, he is and will continue to be well-known for his wonderful off-ice character as well.

 

[Eloyse]

Skaters like Ashley Wagner and Javi do way less than Hanyu does but emotionally commit to 100% of each and every movement, whereas Hanyu does more and at times doesn't commit 100% or seems like he is going through the motions.

Javier Fernandez, in particular, always rushes through his movements.

 

[andromache]

Javier Fernandez, in particular, always rushes through his movements.

I never have that impression from him unless he's having a real meltdown (like in 2017 Worlds LP). Agree to disagree.

 

[alia jackson]

Thank you to the creators of this video. It has helped me and other fans to identify the elements in a program. A lot of new fans to figure skating really want to learn to identify the jumps, spins, steps etc. etc.

I hope one of the creators that got banned today who was a long time GS member since 2011 will not get discourage from continuing following figure skating.

 

[gsk8]

I would love to see more of these videos with well thought-out analysis. I feel these would even make good "features articles" on the main page of GS. If only folks would agree to disagree respectfully in the discussion threads.....authors and posters alike.

 

[blackey]

I would love to see more of these videos with well thought-out analysis. I feel these would even make good "features articles" on the main page of GS. If only folks would agree to disagree respectfully in the discussion threads.....authors and posters alike.

agree. I actually know someone who has been doing this for a while, but it's not in English so it doesn't really get much attention.

 

[gsk8]

Perhaps we could get it translated? Feel free to PM me links and language.

 

[largeman]

agree. I actually know someone who has been doing this for a while, but it's not in English so it doesn't really get much attention.

Chinese figure skating fan frenchrabbit is known for their detailed analysis of programs throughout the years. This is their channel:
http://space.bilibili.com/41093265/#!/

Yuna's Sochi FS: http://www.kanbilibili.com/video/av6536551/
Mao's 2014 Worlds SP: http://www.bilibili.com/video/av6716704/

Their analyses are extremely informative and educational, from naming of steps and turns, explanation of levels to the author's personal assessment of each PCS category. They also share their insights and appreciation of the choreography, such as the special details or unique touches by a specific choreographer. It is an invaluable resource for skating fans who can read Chinese. (Even for non Chinese readers, a lot of the annotation is in English when it comes to identifying the elements and turns, so it might still be worth a look.)

 

[blackey]

Chinese figure skating fan frenchrabbit is known for their detailed analysis of programs throughout the years. This is their channel:
http://space.bilibili.com/41093265/#!/

Yuna's Sochi FS: http://www.kanbilibili.com/video/av6536551/
Mao's 2014 Worlds SP: http://www.bilibili.com/video/av6716704/

Their analyses are extremely informative and educational, from naming of steps and turns, explanation of levels to the author's personal assessment of each PCS category. They also share their insights and appreciation of the choreography, such as the special details or unique touches by a specific choreographer. It is an invaluable resource for skating fans who can read Chinese. (Even for non Chinese readers, a lot of the annotation is in English when it comes to identifying the elements and turns, so it might still be worth a look.)

yep that's who I'm talking about.

 

[asiacheetah]

I will say what I did in the YT comment, tumblr, and on FF when it was first posted. This was a great video that took a lot of time and effort with so much detailed analysis. Mad respect to all who contributed.

I think I saw the original written break down of all the steps and levels, which was the basis of the video's technical information. I think the same person did the same for Seimei and Chopin. I hope the video makers are not so discouraged and perhaps one day do a similar treatment for those two record setting winning GPF programs.

Other than identification of all the steps in between, what I found most useful are identification of spin positions and their difficulty variants. As a casual FS viewer, it always puzzles me when certain step sequences or spins get a slower difficulty level when it looks so difficult, while others that looks simplier gets higher level.

I also liked the highlighted bullets of what GOE criteria a jump meets. It's especially helpful that actual GOE and highest possible GOE were included. For instance, I didn't know triples (other than 3A) can only get up to 2.1 GOE.

In the interest of preventing future flame wars, I recommend not including the analysis of what the GOE should be, but include the bullets it meets.

I hope this video inspires fans of other skaters to provide their own analysis. I would love to see ones for Patrick, Jason, and Shoma. Having seen WTT live, I can state from a personal stand point that Yuzu, Patrick, and Jason seems to bring a lot more to their skates in the in between jumps moments and they, plus Shoma, bring a ton of charisma on ice.

Referring to the other thread, please be respectful and don't disparage others' work, time, and dedication. Asking Hanyu fans to provide the same kind of analysis videos for other skaters is disingenuous since you wouldn't believe their opinions would not be biased against them to begin with. Such baiting is unhelpful and makes this forum a hostile environment.

 

[jinabee]

I will say what I did in the YT comment, tumblr, and on FF when it was first posted. This was a great video that took a lot of time and effort with so much detailed analysis. Mad respect to all who contributed.

I think I saw the original written break down of all the steps and levels, which was the basis of the video's technical information. I think the same person did the same for Seimei and Chopin. I hope the video makers are not so discouraged and perhaps one day do a similar treatment for those two record setting winning GPF programs.

Other than identification of all the steps in between, what I found most useful are identification of spin positions and their difficulty variants. As a casual FS viewer, it always puzzles me when certain step sequences or spins get a slower difficulty level when it looks so difficult, while others that looks simplier gets higher level.

I also liked the highlighted bullets of what GOE criteria a jump meets. It's especially helpful that actual GOE and highest possible GOE were included. For instance, I didn't know triples (other than 3A) can only get up to 2.1 GOE.

In the interest of preventing future flame wars, I recommend not including the analysis of what the GOE should be, but include the bullets it meets.

I hope this video inspires fans of other skaters to provide their own analysis. I would love to see ones for Patrick, Jason, and Shoma. Having seen WTT live, I can state from a personal stand point that Yuzu, Patrick, and Jason seems to bring a lot more to their skates in the in between jumps moments and they, plus Shoma, bring a ton of charisma on ice.

Referring to the other thread, please be respectful and don't disparage others' work, time, and dedication. Asking Hanyu fans to provide the same kind of analysis videos for other skaters is disingenuous since you wouldn't believe their opinions would not be biased against them to begin with. Such baiting is unhelpful and makes this forum a hostile environment.

I thought including max GOE, Actual GOE, and the GOE that could be awarded from highlighted bullets was fine. Maybe to avoid other fans' getting the hump, the 'predicted' GOE could be a bench mark (ex 2~3 instead of just putting 3 or whatever the +3 value is on that element) and/or bullets that are maybe a bit more subjective, could be argued against and could be missed by judges are highlighted differently that bullets that were definately hit.

 

[asiacheetah]

I thought including max GOE, Actual GOE, and the GOE that could be awarded from highlighted bullets was fine. Maybe to avoid other fans' getting the hump, the 'predicted' GOE could be a bench mark (ex 2~3 instead of just putting 3 or whatever the +3 value is on that element) and/or bullets that are maybe a bit more subjective, could be argued against and could be missed by judges are highlighted differently that bullets that were definately hit.

I'm good with that approach too. I think one of the jump had a range of possible GOE listed and I thought that's helpful.

 

[gsyzf]

Chinese figure skating fan frenchrabbit is known for their detailed analysis of programs throughout the years. This is their channel:
http://space.bilibili.com/41093265/#!/

Yuna's Sochi FS: http://www.kanbilibili.com/video/av6536551/
Mao's 2014 Worlds SP: http://www.bilibili.com/video/av6716704/

Their analyses are extremely informative and educational, from naming of steps and turns, explanation of levels to the author's personal assessment of each PCS category. They also share their insights and appreciation of the choreography, such as the special details or unique touches by a specific choreographer. It is an invaluable resource for skating fans who can read Chinese. (Even for non Chinese readers, a lot of the annotation is in English when it comes to identifying the elements and turns, so it might still be worth a look.)

These videos are very good. The fan who made the videos is quite fair. He/she explains the strength and weakness of each element, and suggests a range of GOE that could've been rewarded, rather than just one number. Most of the time, the quality of an element is between two GOE grades. So some judges may give the higher grade and some give a lower grade. He/she also explains why some spins/steps may be called level 4 or level 3 due to some borderline features. I like that he/she allows differences in opinion and judgement, and offers his/her judgement as an opinion (rather than as an absolute standard).

 

[jinabee]

This is absolutely not true. The creator of the video chose the platform where they want to share it: YouTube. If the comments get out of hand, they can control it by disabling the comment section. A few of the creators(?) shared it on the Hanyu fan fest. I don't believe they chose to share it here on The Edge. And we all know how that thread devolved into with lots of hurt feelings and one of the video creator being banned (temporary or otherwise). So who knows if the creator want this thread removed since they're not allowed to post.

When sharing other people's work, you should almost keep the artist's desire in mind and always give them credit. Think of a pretty piece of fan art you find online. If you don't credit the creator, link back and share where they originally shared it, they won't be able to see the view counts, comments, and share counts. Some artists are very sensitive to criticism and might be so discouraged they don't attempt it in the future. In general just be respectful and keep their desire in mind.

This is a fair point. I really dislike when people act like they are free to do what they please with anything they find on the internet. I take photographs, I share them for free, all I ask is that people don't repost them without linking back to the source and crediting me and ask permission before editing the photograph so I know what they want to use it for. When I find people who have not done what I asked and have posted my photos on instagram with a filter, with my watermark cropped out or god forbit their own watermark edited on, and no credit to myself I get very annoyed for two reasons: just because I shared the photograph does not mean it is not my property, and not following my wishes spits in the face of the work that went into taking that photograph. (example, I once had someone argue they rewatermarked my image because they felt they deserved credit for finding it, cropping it and editing it against my wishes. Ignorant to the fact that the image was the result of getting up at 3am, waiting 2 hours in the cold, spending hours going through shots and editing them and if we are being really fussy the money spent on my camera, lens, editing software, laptop, and 3 year photography degree.) Just because something is shared openly does not mean you can do whatever you want with it.

This video was the result of a lot of hard work, that was shared for people to enjoy and discuss. At one point it may have been the creators wishes to share it on this forum outside of the Hanyu fanfest, but then people were rude about it and rude on a personal level to the creators. I don't believe it was shared again with the permission of the creators and whether they posted it here before or not is not important.

 

[OmNomNomNom]

First of all, a very big warm thank you to the creators of this EDUCATIONAL and DEDICATED video. Of course only the most diligent of fans could spend so much time and effort working on something as meaningful and wonderful as this. Not only does it express the love for the skater, it also benefits a lot of people in the business, including new fans, old fans who might be poorly informed but doesn't let that stop them from being very vocal, commentators, bloggers, reviewers, seasoned members of this very website, even coaches and the skaters themselves.

Only ones with very twisted minds, or those seasonal trolls, could dismiss such work as some rabid fans' irrational devotion to a skater and could overlook its unquestionable values. How they demand similar videos for other skaters to prove that this one is objective and unrelated to scoring issues is so typically tyrannical of the loud-mouths. Just because they're native speakers and know how to get around words doesn't mean the hostility isn't there, so either some mods are too critically impaired to notice the sentiments, or they deliberately chose to ignore them and tacitly collude with such wile thinkings. But who am I to complain huh.

 

[solani]

Thanks to the creators of this video analysis! I think it's totally impressive to actually see how well this program is put together, the amount of work and dedication from all involved it needs to create a program like that. To have all the technical difficulty in it and never forget about the beauty of the music and the skating to create a piece of art. It "only "needs a great skater to pull it off in the end.
I often enjoy simpler programs more, but Hanyu's programs are really great when he's able to put everything together.
I really hope the creators are not really devastated because of the obviously nasty remarks about their work (I haven't seen that offensive first thread). I appreciate their video and this thread (I wouldn't have watched the video without it ...)!

 

[NoNameFace]

well...talk about having a weekend off, without stable Internet access and coming back to GS to see things happened...

as I am not entirely familiar with all details of the issue, I relate once and for good based on what I see. For me, the video is a testament of hard work, dedication and being passionate over Yuzuru Hanyu in general and over this particular performance - that's my view on it and it is understandeable to have Yuzuru FF members as contributors of this video. There is nothing from my side but admiration and being thankful for its educational, informative value from such potato viewer like me, knowing little about FS technical specifics, how they work in motion, how to name them, not only judge them. Like Sam-Skwantch said there - it's truly fascinating to see how this exquisite performance is made from its very 'skeleton', how named and rules-restricted moves are comprising for an unity, surpassing those rules and restrictions at least in our perception.

Saying that, it's just plain sad and disappointing to see personal convictions, implications coming into view in relation to this video. It is a difference for me to pose a constructive criticism over skater, performance or voice your not-so-enthusiasic opinion over the video in cultured manner, respecting the efforts of its makers if not respecting the outcome and between ruthless attack, personally-inflicted assumption over Yuzuru FF members who happened to make this video which was shared for all. What striked me the most is amount of venom, bitterness hiding inside of some people, their statements aimed to hit personally, never generally using constructive, issue-related arguments - it just always gets its way to come outside for plain view, to attrack common attention, spark more negative feelings and take the focus intended to be on Yuzuru to this particular poster. My opinion is that if someone has objection over video only because of who is its makers, the poster should reach to those personally, not using general thread as it was not designed for such remarks. Being an attention w***e has its rules too, especially considering being cultured. And it's sad to see once again a thread supposed to be a 'celebration' over skater, performance, beauty of it and marvelous construction, being also a great display of other people's knowledge, dedication and passion over FS in general, all put into use to give joy to others, became a bid of who will abuse more people/how many will get abused...

Myself, I totally understand that we all can get emotional over skaters, particularly with such influence over many like Yuzuru has, but for me the key is to stick to the focus point the skater is and not let yourself get carried away with anger, because it leads people to dark, empty places, making happy only those who are living inside of that world, seem to no knowing any other way of expressing thoughts, interactions with forum of users so diverse and how to respect and save that diversity. As long as the discussion is cultured and balanced, without personal jabs and inflictions, I am happy to see it, even heated and passionate as these are factors proving that those involved are carry over skaters, FS and its issues. However, what I won't ever understand and accept will be fighting over something we can have different opinions on, using personal abuse and belittling, or to deliberately taking focus off skaters to posters just for the sake of proving them being 'right' (abusing/belittling others in process). BOTH situations coming from 'ubers, 'haters' or any other people.

And finally my two little cents on someone and something that should be main focus point of this thread - Yuzuru and his 'Hope and legacy' program. These thoughts were nagging me from the inside since last week and now I feel they would be some kind of 'contribution' in appreciation over the performance and the skater himself this thread intends to be (hopefully).

What got me in Yuzuru, his skating was his SPIRIT, no matter what program, which competition, which competitors, which season. It was always what I felt, not the beauty I saw. Every day we see skilled skaters, beautiful, cleanly executed performances, intricate choreogrphies, haunting, artistic musicality presented, but for me not every day we can witness a triumph of someone's spirit over skill, music, movement, other 'measurable' components of FS, not every day we can feel it watching the picture intended to please us, not necessarily to move something inside us. I refer myself as Yuzuru's admirer because of this spirit put inside of all he does on ice and how he carries himself off-ice regarding his skating, regardless of particular program and layout executed. Saying that, I understand the strive and passion of all other people put into analysis over Yuzuru's programs and all stuff connected, I understand that his programs could suit someone more or less, after all this is not like we're ought to like same things and recept them in the same way - this is one of the most beautiful thing in the sport, yet the thing making a big damage to it nowadays. With 'Hope and legacy' what I appreciated the most (like usually with Yuzuru's skating) is the freedom of feel and 'choice to feel' he left everyone - by using more 'deliberate', harmonious and 'contemplative' concept of a program, he made a space for us and for himself to create something unique and personal every time he performed that program during the season I feel. Even with errors the program was for me each time an opportunity to see and admire something in Yuzuru's skating, with this spirit on the lead. Because it never leaves his skating, even the most 'flawed' one as we always see it shining through: in his face, gestures, emotions expressed. The spirit shown is a proof for me that he cares, and cares deeply not only over his skating, particular performance, execution, but also about the audience's freedom of reception he want to give.

I am very happy that it happened to him at Worlds, to reunite all factors: execution, music, movement into one and that he was able to control it so strongly. For me, at the end of the day it doesn't matter how people imagine 'Hope and Leagcy', how they want it to feel like - what's important for me that people's reactions showed that the program made them feel something at all. It proves that Yuzuru's skating - even not designed to be dramatic or very 'visibly emotional' - finds its way to people's minds, souls or hearts, that's the spiritual beauty of it.

And personally I hope that Yuzuru's skating will continue to build bridges: of passion, understanding, joy, sadness, unity instead of being used for building bricks, as it is not its aim I feel.

 

[Meoima]

This kind of hard work and dedication was done with much love. It's crazily difficult to analyze such a packed program, only Yulena did that. And it's crazily difficult for non-professional video editors to make subtitles, encode and everything related to it.
It's just sad that people have to talk it down because of jealousy or whatever.
But this video will stay.

And of course, this hardwork was done by people who love Yuzuru. If you love your favorite skaters a lot, do it for them. No one want to do such detailed work for skaters they have little connection to (unless they're paid).

 

[evasorange]

If NBC were smart(questionable at this point) they would hire someone to make educational videos like this for the Olympic season. Breakdowns for all the top Grand Prix and nationals performances then post to YouTube, Instagram, and Facebook. I think it would be super informative and help draw in new fans for the Olympic season. Instead they'll probably put all their resources into puff "how I over came my struggles" pieces...Sigh