Making a World Record: Hanyu's Long Program

[Vanshilar]

Hmm my comments on the moves are:
0:47-0:49 I think he does a RBI push to back crossover to RBI-LFO choctaw, but he simply labels it as "turn".
0:51 He labels it as LFO-RFI-LFO chasse but Yuzuru wide-steps and the left foot is actually on an inside edge for the last one, not outside edge
1:02 He labels it a LFO-RFO cross roll but it looks like Yuzuru ends up on an RFI edge to me
1:05 The 4Lo is supposed to take off on a RBO edge, so it seems odd for the creator to label the edge just before the 4Lo as a LBO; there should've been something about the LBO to RBO edge just before the 4Lo
1:16 He labels it as a turn, it looks like a RBI-LFO choctaw to me (same as at the beginning)
1:22 I guess this is where opinions may vary, since I don't know the formal definition of a crossover, but it looks like a back crossover to me while it's labelled a LBO-RBI-LBO chasse
1:25 Same thing, it looks like a back crossover to me but it's labelled as a crossed step
1:43 Yeah I don't know what to call those steps after the 4S either, maybe there's ice dance terms for them...half-swizzles to a back snowplow stop or something
2:11 With that free leg swing there I'm tempted to call it a swing mohawk but...yeah I guess he does go onto a RBI edge not a RBO edge after, so...swing choctaw? heh
2:20 He labels it as a CCW turn, but it looks like a RBI-LFO choctaw to me
2:37 Yeah same thing here, I guess what I think is a choctaw he labels simply as a turn (RBI-LFO)
2:46 Same thing here
3:02 Comment on the step sequence list, it would be useful if the list of steps/turns were written out as a list, with (for example) the different combinations of difficult turns highlighted, to make it clear why it satisfied each of the criteria
3:15 He simply labelled it as RBO-LFO, I would've said RBO-LFO mohawk
3:19 Same thing here, LBO-RFO mohawk for me
3:22 Again with the RBI-LFO choctaw thing
3:41 Again here
3:51 Backward one-foot snowplow stop (hehe)
4:03 Again with the RBI-LFO choctaw thing
4:23 Same here (funny how I don't think I've seen a LBI-RFO choctaw yet though, it's always RBI-LFO)
4:39 I was going to say same here, but...no, it's RBO edge (or perhaps flat) preceding, so it'd be a RBO-LFO mohawk I think
4:40 Same comment for the 4T here as for the 4Lo, Yuzuru goes from LBI to RBO just before the jump which is what makes it a 4T (taking off from RBO edge), but it's not mentioned in the video
4:48 I would've said RBO-LFO mohawk; I'll note though that the LTS curriculum just simply says "backward outside edge to a forward outside edge transition", so maybe there's something else that makes it a mohawk that Yuzuru doesn't do
4:53 Ah, a LBI-RFO choctaw...I think
4:57 And another one
4:58 Probably should've been a LBI-RBO chasse here before the RBO 3-turn
5:14 I see a LBI 3-turn, while he called it a LFI 3-turn -- maybe just an error in typing for the video
5:21 It's hard to tell since his blades are so close to the ice, but at least from the video it looks more like a LFI 3-turn rather than a LFI-RBI mohawk
5:24 Same thing about RBO-LFO mohawk here
5:30 I'm not sure why it says counter to jump as a difficult entry here, this one wasn't Yuzuru's LBO counter entry to his 3A
5:56 So admittedly the video is very zoomed out so it's hard to see, but it looks like Yuzuru is in a lunge with the right leg forward (see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJKo-6qf4Tc&t=3m53s ), which makes it a RFI - LBO choctaw; some of the stuff immediately after maybe should change as well
6:00 Again, looks like a LBI-RFO choctaw...I think
6:09 The video calls it a LFI 3-turn, but it looks like the left skate is in the air and Yuzuru hopped using the right toe pick (yes, crossed to the left)

So that's what I got. Apparently there's differences in that I will call things choctaws and mohawks whereas the video's author just called them as turns, and same with crossovers vs chasses. But I don't know the technical definitions for them (I'm just simply looking at the edges and if the legs are crossed) so I could be wrong on them.

One note that I'll make on the jumps, the video talked about the +GOE bullets, but not the possible -GOE bullets when needed. For example, on the 3A + 2T combo, the free leg is pretty wrapped during the 2T, which I think is fairly common but may get a -1 GOE.

 

[Camillo]

One note that I'll make on the jumps, the video talked about the +GOE bullets, but not the possible -GOE bullets when needed. For example, on the 3A + 2T combo, the free leg is pretty wrapped during the 2T, which I think is fairly common but may get a -1 GOE.

I don't think it deserves any -1, you can't even call it a "weak landing".
Also this season we saw a lot of bad landings when free leg scratches the ice, position is strained and stiff etc. with pretty good +GOE

 

[Meoima]

Thank you so much Vanshilar. Fay says she will translate your comments and send them to Yulena, the original blogger who did this analysis. She will reply once she is ready.

 

[Meoima]

I don't think it deserves any -1, you can't even call it a "weak landing".
Also this season we saw a lot of bad landings when free leg scratches the ice, position is strained and stiff etc. with pretty good +GOE

Yeah, many jumps from top skaters don't have flow with bad body alignments, they even land on the inside edge or almost catch their blade always get over +1 GOE.

 

[Vanshilar]

I don't think it deserves any -1, you can't even call it a "weak landing".
Also this season we saw a lot of bad landings when free leg scratches the ice, position is strained and stiff etc. with pretty good +GOE

Oh I don't mean that the jump as a whole should receive -1 GOE, I mean that the -1 GOE would bump the overall GOE down, i.e. +3 to +2 GOE, etc.

Thank you so much Vanshilar. Fay says she will translate your comments and send them to Yulena, the original blogger who did this analysis. She will reply once she is ready.

Keep in mind I am in no way an expert on this stuff, I'm still trying to figure it out myself, so I shouldn't be taken as an authority on how the steps and turns were called -- you might want to wait for someone who actually knows the technical definitions to chime in.

 

[Camillo]

Yeah, many jumps from top skaters don't have flow with bad body alignments, they even land on the inside edge or almost catch their blade always get over +1 GOE.

I guess if the jump has many other positive bullets (enough to get +3) and the only problem was weak landing, it would be okay to get +1+2. But you're right, sometimes it's confusing when you try to summarize all possible positive bullets and all reductions: for example 3-4 positive bullets (that means +2), "weak landing" -1 or -2, long preparation -1 or -2, so final GOE should be around 0 or lower if judges are stingy, but suddenly it's +1

I really wish they'd change the system and judges would input only bullets&reductions, leaving GOE calculation to the computer. Detailed protocols would become really educational for fans and for skaters.

Oh I don't mean that the jump as a whole should receive -1 GOE, I mean that the -1 GOE would bump the overall GOE down, i.e. +3 to +2 GOE, etc.

Yes, I got what you mean, but still I see no reason to cut GOE in this particular case.

 

[LadyLou]

Hi I’m new here. I’ve been lurking for a while but I really wanted to say a big thank you for all the effort and passion this video took. I’ve been an occasional figure skating fan since Turin 2006 but I’ve gotten really into it only since January. I have never put skates on too, so you can imagine how much at loss I am when talking about steps and such. I’ve watched a few “technical” videos about different kind of steps and movements and I kind of grasp the general idea of the different elements, but being able to actually recognize them when performed in a flow, as a “whole” so to say, is an entirely different thing. So thank you for giving me a chance of improving. More so I’m in total awe at how much Yuzuru is doing in just those few minutes, and in such a way to make it look everything absolutely effortless and natural. This just makes me appreciate this program and Yuzuru as a skater even more.

As for the GOEs shown in the video, I wasn’t confused about them at all. Of course everyone (yes, even a fan) is entitled to his/her idea, and honestly they aren’t even that far off from the actual ones (which are mean, so for some elements some judges may have actually agreed with the author of the analysis), so I really don’t get the whole argument about it. From what I understand, there is a certain degree of subjectivity about that, and one could argue that some commentators were expecting an even higher score, too (I’m NOT claiming anything about underscoring, I’m simply stating what other people said on tv). I am fine with how they were put in the video, but if for future videos the authors would think "safer" to change it, I'd understand. For me to see the possible bullets along with the elements made me ask myself “would I give this or that too?”. It wasn’t just a passive “ok I’m fine with all of that”. So this video was educational in that way, too.

As I said I’m really just a beginner here but I’d love to read more constructive and interesting posts as the ones above. Figure skating is really difficult, I’m still amazed that you guys are actually able to name every movement (or that every movement has a name... I don’t know which one is more mindblowing :eeking.

I’m glad someone was patient, passionate and skilled enough to make possible for me to enjoy a beautiful performance and learn something at once.
I’m looking forward for more videos to come. Videos like this and the few others posted above really make me appreciate figure skating (and choreographing) more and more.:hap85:

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Hmm my comments on the moves are:
0:47-0:49 I think he does a RBI push to back crossover to RBI-LFO choctaw, but he simply labels it as "turn".
0:51 He labels it as LFO-RFI-LFO chasse but Yuzuru wide-steps and the left foot is actually on an inside edge for the last one, not outside edge
1:02 He labels it a LFO-RFO cross roll but it looks like Yuzuru ends up on an RFI edge to me
1:05 The 4Lo is supposed to take off on a RBO edge, so it seems odd for the creator to label the edge just before the 4Lo as a LBO; there should've been something about the LBO to RBO edge just before the 4Lo
1:16 He labels it as a turn, it looks like a RBI-LFO choctaw to me (same as at the beginning)
1:22 I guess this is where opinions may vary, since I don't know the formal definition of a crossover, but it looks like a back crossover to me while it's labelled a LBO-RBI-LBO chasse
1:25 Same thing, it looks like a back crossover to me but it's labelled as a crossed step
1:43 Yeah I don't know what to call those steps after the 4S either, maybe there's ice dance terms for them...half-swizzles to a back snowplow stop or something
2:11 With that free leg swing there I'm tempted to call it a swing mohawk but...yeah I guess he does go onto a RBI edge not a RBO edge after, so...swing choctaw? heh
2:20 He labels it as a CCW turn, but it looks like a RBI-LFO choctaw to me
2:37 Yeah same thing here, I guess what I think is a choctaw he labels simply as a turn (RBI-LFO)
2:46 Same thing here
3:02 Comment on the step sequence list, it would be useful if the list of steps/turns were written out as a list, with (for example) the different combinations of difficult turns highlighted, to make it clear why it satisfied each of the criteria
3:15 He simply labelled it as RBO-LFO, I would've said RBO-LFO mohawk
3:19 Same thing here, LBO-RFO mohawk for me
3:22 Again with the RBI-LFO choctaw thing
3:41 Again here
3:51 Backward one-foot snowplow stop (hehe)
4:03 Again with the RBI-LFO choctaw thing
4:23 Same here (funny how I don't think I've seen a LBI-RFO choctaw yet though, it's always RBI-LFO)
4:39 I was going to say same here, but...no, it's RBO edge (or perhaps flat) preceding, so it'd be a RBO-LFO mohawk I think
4:40 Same comment for the 4T here as for the 4Lo, Yuzuru goes from LBI to RBO just before the jump which is what makes it a 4T (taking off from RBO edge), but it's not mentioned in the video
4:48 I would've said RBO-LFO mohawk; I'll note though that the LTS curriculum just simply says "backward outside edge to a forward outside edge transition", so maybe there's something else that makes it a mohawk that Yuzuru doesn't do
4:53 Ah, a LBI-RFO choctaw...I think
4:57 And another one
4:58 Probably should've been a LBI-RBO chasse here before the RBO 3-turn
5:14 I see a LBI 3-turn, while he called it a LFI 3-turn -- maybe just an error in typing for the video
5:21 It's hard to tell since his blades are so close to the ice, but at least from the video it looks more like a LFI 3-turn rather than a LFI-RBI mohawk
5:24 Same thing about RBO-LFO mohawk here
5:30 I'm not sure why it says counter to jump as a difficult entry here, this one wasn't Yuzuru's LBO counter entry to his 3A
5:56 So admittedly the video is very zoomed out so it's hard to see, but it looks like Yuzuru is in a lunge with the right leg forward (see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJKo-6qf4Tc&t=3m53s ), which makes it a RFI - LBO choctaw; some of the stuff immediately after maybe should change as well
6:00 Again, looks like a LBI-RFO choctaw...I think
6:09 The video calls it a LFI 3-turn, but it looks like the left skate is in the air and Yuzuru hopped using the right toe pick (yes, crossed to the left)

So that's what I got. Apparently there's differences in that I will call things choctaws and mohawks whereas the video's author just called them as turns, and same with crossovers vs chasses. But I don't know the technical definitions for them (I'm just simply looking at the edges and if the legs are crossed) so I could be wrong on them.

One note that I'll make on the jumps, the video talked about the +GOE bullets, but not the possible -GOE bullets when needed. For example, on the 3A + 2T combo, the free leg is pretty wrapped during the 2T, which I think is fairly common but may get a -1 GOE.

Thanks for doing a breakdown of this.

Regarding Mohawks, generally ones without "crossed/T'ed" feet, like a RBO to LFO outside mohawk is considered more of a simple step, since you're just stepping forward https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohawk_turn I also think that easier Choctaws like the RBI-LFO or LBI-RFO are considered as more simple steps (i.e. they're not a "difficult entry into a spin" and I can't remember but I think they were once/still are not counted in step sequences because they're just regarded as simple steps).

The movements are accurate for the most part, but some things are mislabelled - e.g. he doesn't do a "Cross Roll" before his 3Z, crossovers are called chasses (like the ones leading up to his 4S+3T), and sometimes the edges (or even feet are mislabelled), but when you're breaking down so many movements you can hardly be expected to get everything correct.

I also agree that the leg wrap on the 2T of the 3A+2T might get a -1 reduction in GOE, hence the +2's across the board from the judges.

 

[gkelly]

Congratulations to the video makers on their hard work and informative video.

I'm not sure it's useful to try to name every little transitional step or stroke in a program:
some of them are not pure examples of well-defined moves because the skater is making slight variation to make the step work better with the surrounding moves;
some really aren't standard moves with standard names to begin with (and, e.g., I've found it's pretty common for skaters and coaches to say "step forward" when referring to a mohawk or choctaw from backward to a forward; using "turn" for an undefined turn also makes sense)
if they're all easy moves it doesn't make much difference to the difficulty what name we give each step, although if there are a lot of different accurate names that would reflect good variety

Just the fact that the skater is often turning, and often turning in both directions, is notable, as opposed to relying mostly on crossovers or simple forward stroking.

For more difficult turns and steps -- brackets, counters, rockers, twizzles, loops, choctaws especially forward to backward and/or with deep edges -- the labeling is more meaningful in showcasing difficulty and variety, as applicable.

Of course, the number of specific different kinds of turns and steps is the most important thing in determining step sequence levels.

Labeling all the transitions like this is especially useful for pointing out to new fans that there's a lot more technical content that goes into a program, and that's judged in a program, than just the jumps and spins.

For fans to learn what each step or turn looks like and what its name is, it would be more useful to look at the moves in isolation than in the middle of a program where they go by so fast and are often varied. Also, just the names without explanations won't help people who don't know whether the defining characteristic is the body position or the edges.

These video makers seem to be using the term "chasse" to refer to any simple change of foot on the same curve. But the ice dance definition of the term is more specific:
chasse
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7aV-IbyElA&t=1m47s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXFAjcVYOME&t=1m10s

The main point of this video is to analyze Hanyu's program, not to teach the names of the steps. It can't do everything.

One note that I'll make on the jumps, the video talked about the +GOE bullets, but not the possible -GOE bullets when needed. For example, on the 3A + 2T combo, the free leg is pretty wrapped during the 2T, which I think is fairly common but may get a -1 GOE.

There is a reduction of -1 to -2 listed for "Poor speed, height, distance, air position" but I don't think that leg position would warrant a GOE reduction. It's a more open position than Hanyu uses for triples or quads, because he doesn't need to pull in as tight just to rotate a double -- he gets plenty of height for two revolutions.

I really wish they'd change the system and judges would input only bullets&reductions, leaving GOE calculation to the computer. Detailed protocols would become really educational for fans and for skaters.

That certainly would be more informative, but it would also consume a lot more resources, so I don't know how practical it would be.

Judges would need more time to record every thought about every element, which in the case of jumps would take more time to input than the element takes to execute. Forget about having the same judges judge both elements and PCS -- there would need to be more judges so they could split the tasks. And even so a judge who has a lot of boxes to check about one element might miss another element that happens a few seconds later. Then they'd better make a note to watch replays after the fact to catch what they missed (except in lower competitions where no replay is available to the judges).

The protocols would also need several pages per program to show all the bullet points from every judge for every skater, instead of the half page per program they currently use.

A judge can see everything that was documented in this video in real time, but they can't record it in real time. So it's a tradeoff. What's more important -- judges' immediate perceptions of what's happening on the ice, or taking half a minute to record three seconds worth of thoughts about one element, at the expense of missing some of the live experience?

 

[fireovertheice]

Congratulations to the video makers on their hard work and informative video.

I'm not sure it's useful to try to name every little transitional step or stroke in a program:
some of them are not pure examples of well-defined moves because the skater is making slight variation to make the step work better with the surrounding moves;
some really aren't standard moves with standard names to begin with (and, e.g., I've found it's pretty common for skaters and coaches to say "step forward" when referring to a mohawk or choctaw from backward to a forward; using "turn" for an undefined turn also makes sense)
if they're all easy moves it doesn't make much difference to the difficulty what name we give each step, although if there are a lot of different accurate names that would reflect good variety

Just the fact that the skater is often turning, and often turning in both directions, is notable, as opposed to relying mostly on crossovers or simple forward stroking.

For more difficult turns and steps -- brackets, counters, rockers, twizzles, loops, choctaws especially forward to backward and/or with deep edges -- the labeling is more meaningful in showcasing difficulty and variety, as applicable.

Of course, the number of specific different kinds of turns and steps is the most important thing in determining step sequence levels.

Labeling all the transitions like this is especially useful for pointing out to new fans that there's a lot more technical content that goes into a program, and that's judged in a program, than just the jumps and spins.

For fans to learn what each step or turn looks like and what its name is, it would be more useful to look at the moves in isolation than in the middle of a program where they go by so fast and are often varied. Also, just the names without explanations won't help people who don't know whether the defining characteristic is the body position or the edges.

These video makers seem to be using the term "chasse" to refer to any simple change of foot on the same curve. But the ice dance definition of the term is more specific:

[URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7aV-IbyElA&t=1m47s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXFAjcVYOME&t=1m10s

The main point of this video is to analyze Hanyu's program, not to teach the names of the steps. It can't do everything.



There is a reduction of -1 to -2 listed for "Poor speed, height, distance, air position" but I don't think that leg position would warrant a GOE reduction. It's a more open position than Hanyu uses for triples or quads, because he doesn't need to pull in as tight just to rotate a double -- he gets plenty of height for two revolutions.



That certainly would be more informative, but it would also consume a lot more resources, so I don't know how practical it would be.

Judges would need more time to record every thought about every element, which in the case of jumps would take more time to input than the element takes to execute. Forget about having the same judges judge both elements and PCS -- there would need to be more judges so they could split the tasks. And even so a judge who has a lot of boxes to check about one element might miss another element that happens a few seconds later. Then they'd better make a note to watch replays after the fact to catch what they missed (except in lower competitions where no replay is available to the judges).

The protocols would also need several pages per program to show all the bullet points from every judge for every skater, instead of the half page per program they currently use.

A judge can see everything that was documented in this video in real time, but they can't record it in real time. So it's a tradeoff. What's more important -- judges' immediate perceptions of what's happening on the ice, or taking half a minute to record three seconds worth of thoughts about one element, at the expense of missing some of the live experience?

Thank you so much @gkelly: your posts are always interesting and useful to me. And I waited for your opinion on the video and of the type of applications of that analysis, that I appreciate greatly.

To me videos about singles elements well distinct and others with indication of their combinations in performances of different skaters / choreographers are both useful, at the moment.

 

[Camillo]

That certainly would be more informative, but it would also consume a lot more resources, so I don't know how practical it would be.

Judges would need more time to record every thought about every element, which in the case of jumps would take more time to input than the element takes to execute. Forget about having the same judges judge both elements and PCS -- there would need to be more judges so they could split the tasks.

Yes, sure, it would be more difficult and time consuming. In my ideal world there are two different panels for elements and for PCS During competitions I noticed the judges most of the time sit with their heads down to the monitors. They do not actually watch the program as a whole piece, so can they really catch the quality of choreography, TR or SS, when they are busy grading elements?

And even so a judge who has a lot of boxes to check about one element might miss another element that happens a few seconds later. Then they'd better make a note to watch replays after the fact to catch what they missed (except in lower competitions where no replay is available to the judges).

The protocols would also need several pages per program to show all the bullet points from every judge for every skater, instead of the half page per program they currently use.

You're right, it will take too much time, but we can dream

Anyway, I wish ISU would at least:
1) let tech.panel decide about required preceding steps into solo jump at SP (the same way they decide about URs and e/! for lutz and flip). Judges can't do it properly it seems.
2) let the computer correct accidental mistakes - obviously it's not possible to get +2 and +1 for a fall (Kolyada's case at Nationals), in theory the highest GOE can be 0. Computer must lower these marks to avoid human factor influencing the final GOE.

 

[LadyLou]

Labeling all the transitions like this is especially useful for pointing out to new fans that there's a lot more technical content that goes into a program, and that's judged in a program, than just the jumps and spins.

For fans to learn what each step or turn looks like and what its name is, it would be more useful to look at the moves in isolation than in the middle of a program where they go by so fast and are often varied. Also, just the names without explanations won't help people who don't know whether the defining characteristic is the body position or the edges.

These video makers seem to be using the term "chasse" to refer to any simple change of foot on the same curve. But the ice dance definition of the term is more specific:

[URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7aV-IbyElA&t=1m47s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXFAjcVYOME&t=1m10s

Thank you, those are exactly the videos I was watching to begin to grasp at the different elements! It is way harder, though, recognize them in an actual program, so video like H&L annotated are very helpful to me.
And what motivated me to start looking for steps, turns etc in the first place was that I wanted to appreciate a program like this in its entirity and complexity.

 

[sweetphooh]

Thank you for making this good video. I am not very familiar with the step but could realize the spirit of this program despite bad intention just because of Yuzuru Hanyu. Anyway I also appreciate the administrator's efforts for figure skating very much just like Yuzuru Hanyu's upward mind.

 

[andromache]

Anyway, I wish ISU would at least:
1) let tech.panel decide about required preceding steps into solo jump at SP (the same way they decide about URs and e/! for lutz and flip). Judges can't do it properly it seems.
/QUOTE]

If judges can't decide, neither can the tech panel. The human element is real, and different people see things differently. At least with judges, it's a larger group of people giving their opinion - the more people, the better balanced of an opinion it is.

 

[quizas]

A BIG thank you to those fans who make this video. It's a great video, with so many details. it's very helpful.:agree::luv17:

 

[kelleigh]

Thank you so much for the fans dedicating their time and effort to make this vid. I have spent much less time on the forum but for this I must come and show my appreciation with respect for your hard work.

To me the vid provides enough informations to discuss the GOEs. I think at least the 4T deserved a +3 GOE? That landing and air position and flow and many more of it... I watched the competition at Helsinki, it really surprised me Hanyu got no +3 GOE for any of his jumps. I know scores can be affected by the order to perform, it's quite weird to have no +3 GOE, literally none, with that quality of performance, at least for jumps.

This vid is a brilliant start and encouragement to detailed analysis and arguments with grounds - unless all fans are open-minded and gracious enough to appreciate other's hard work and then fans of different skaters are more than welcomed to do their own very good versions. People have different views, even within the group of fans of the same skaters, there are always different pov. The point is, criticism should be constructive and supported with grounds. I certainly don't want to be banned (I'm well-prepared for it as a proud fan of Hanyu tho lol) so I will just say "thank you" again to the contributors of the video and it would be my pleasure if you guys can keep on doing some more.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Thank you so much for the fans dedicating their time and effort to make this vid. I have spent much less time on the forum but for this I must come and show my appreciation with respect for your hard work.

To me the vid provides enough informations to discuss the GOEs. I think at least the 4T deserved a +3 GOE? That landing and air position and flow and many more of it... I watched the competition at Helsinki, it really surprised me Hanyu got no +3 GOE for any of his jumps. I know scores can be affected by the order to perform, it's quite weird to have no +3 GOE, literally none, with that quality of performance, at least for jumps.

This vid is a brilliant start and encouragement to detailed analysis and arguments with grounds - unless all fans are open-minded and gracious enough to appreciate other's hard work and then fans of different skaters are more than welcomed to do their own very good versions. People have different views, even within the group of fans of the same skaters, there are always different pov. The point is, criticism should be constructive and supported with grounds. I certainly don't want to be banned (I'm well-prepared for it as a proud fan of Hanyu tho lol) so I will just say "thank you" again to the contributors of the video and it would be my pleasure if you guys can keep on doing some more.

He did get +3s from several judges on many of his jumps. http://www.isuresults.com/results/season1617/wc2017/wc2017_Men_FS_Scores.pdf

Unless you're wondering why he didn't get +3s across the board? Sometimes our assessment of GOE and deductions differs from the judges. GOE bullets like height
/distance/flow/musicality/extension/effortlessness are subjective and more strict judges will be less inclined to award elements with perfect scores.

 

[PomeloPooh]

Ah, glad to see this thread reappear & finally back on track of constructive discussions! and rid of many unfortunate previous trolling too.

Thank you a lot to the creators of the video! As a newbie to this sport who can do no more than telling jumps apart, I learnt so much from this video. Watching this brilliant skate over & over again is a way more humane way to familiarize oneself with steps & turns than reciting stuff like "the turn & the curve in the same direction with no edge-change"!

I'm curious though, why is hydroblade classified as a spiral? What are the defining traits of a spiral?

 

[sweetphooh]

According to NBC commentator https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93X5tSUta3w, Yuzu's 4T is a textbook quad jump especially in the second half, but one judge gave him GOE+1. I just wonder if the judge have a dim eyesight in the competition?

 

[HanDomi]

According to NBC commentator https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93X5tSUta3w, Yuzu's 4T is a textbook quad jump especially in the second half, but one judge gave him GOE+1. I just wonder if the judge have a dim eyesight in the competition?

for me this is easily +3, flow, height, and that spot on landing - amazing