Medvedeva shoots at being the best ever

[mrrice]

Speaking of popular Olympians. Is Elena Dementieva still popular? She never won a Grand Slam but, she did win the OGM in 2008 to go along with her Silver Medal from 2000. She was a tennis player. I know that Tennis Star Marat Safin became a politician but, I never hear about Elena. http://www1.pictures.gi.zimbio.com/Olympics+Day+9+Tennis+66rB_HVzyh-l.jpg

 

[tampro1]

Sadly Averbukh is doing her Olympic programs. More silly mime programs with answering phones and jump roping on the horizon. What next? Luckily she is so far ahead of the pack, she'll overcome his horrific yet comedic choreography. To be remembered as the greatest, she'll need a mature artistic program. Losing the Olympics might actually force her handlers to go outside the current formula.

 

[magicalwords]

And that's the thing. She's young. It's her second senior season. I wouldn't expect her to have the level of interpretation as a Kim or Kostner or Asada.

As much as I want to give leeway, since you mentioned Yuna, may I remind you that Yuna had already begun showing sophistication and maturity in her skating early on:

Yuna in her first senior season (age 16, same as Evgenia in her first season) skated to Tango de Roxanne and Lark Ascending.
Per Dick Button... "For sixteen... this is one sophisticated young lady." "This is a sophistication far belying a sixteen year old."

Next year is Evgenia's third season as a senior skater. Yuna in her third senior season skated to Danse Macabre and Scheherazade.
Would Evgenia be seen under a different light had her programs and choreography been different? Maybe?

 

[OniBan]

2013 PCS scores don't really hold up these days. Since that season, the judges got cray with their PCS and bumped everyone's up (well, mainly the top skaters). Mao at Worlds 2013 probably would have scored in the 70's by today's "standard".

That is EXACTLY what I'm trying to say! You cannot compare today's PCS to those of past years - the criteria has changed (heck the criterias has even changed in between the time it took for Yuna to take silver in 2011 and gold in 2013 Worlds), and then get pissed that current PCS is MORE than previous generation's. Which is why I'm genuinely baffled people like TheCzar kept repeating how this is proof that Evgenia is 'gifted' the scores.
Keep repeating a fallacy often enough and it will be truth, I guess >.<

 

[OniBan]

It's about the over the top interpretation, the one look wonder, the hopscotch, the infamous :0 look, with a phone, I could go on. Yes, excellent at execution, but as for the total package, not there yet. Even she will look back one day at these programs from 2017 and say, "what was I thinking?".

I'll have to be honest - after Radionova's awful Titanic program, no other program can ever be cringeworthy to me XDD

 

[OniBan]

As much as I want to give leeway, since you mentioned Yuna, may I remind you that Yuna had already begun showing sophistication and maturity in her skating early on:

Yuna in her first senior season (age 16, same as Evgenia in her first season) skated to Tango de Roxanne and Lark Ascending.
Per Dick Button... "For sixteen... this is one sophisticated young lady." "This is a sophistication far belying a sixteen year old."

Next year is Evgenia's third season as a senior skater. Yuna in her third senior season skated to Danse Macabre and Scheherazade.
Would Evgenia be seen under a different light had her programs and choreography been different? Maybe?

Yuna does have beautiful upper body movements! I notice she has those lovely dancer limbs - which helped a lot in terms of presenting beautiful lines and extensions (where upper body is concerned, sorry Yuna, still can't forgive your slack arabesque spiral XD). And she has innate musicality - girl can dance to the right beat! David Wilson described her as a chameleon - once he showed her how to perform it she can mimic it to perfection.
also, if you have been watching interviews with David Wilson and Brian Orser, she also has the advantage of a great coaching team that included former ice dancer Tracy Wilson to convey her choreography into the best and most appealing way possible.

Evgenia is a bit more... dorky if I can say that? She is a bit more coltish, but more effervescent in that you can her enthusiasm and commitment just bubbling through everything. I thought she improved this year - her skating seems lighter and more effortless than last season. She also has better flexibility and leg extension than Yuna, I think. Also has innate musicality (have you seen some of her impromptu dance videos? XD).
I also think she would definitely benefit from a different style in programs. I remember Eteri saying they did try out different styles for her program this season, but the ones they eventually chose are the ones where they felt she was more natural on the ice, so they stuck with that. But she also didn't rule out a difference in direction for the next season, so hopefully, we'll see something different.

 

[nolangoh]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=iBc_v0v0lvY

Not true. Evgenia still flutzes, here in this video you have her uncalled (f)lutz for which she received 7.50 (!) points, had they called it her TES would drop at least by 4 points. They overlook her shortcomings, it's obvious - and yes she's significantly overscored. I don't question her titles but those scores are just wrong and rather don't encourage her to fix anything. The thing is though that panel was generally rather lenient on edge calls (Osmond also had arguably flutzes or flat edges on lutz) but still 154 for LP is a joke for Medvedeva. Her PCS scores also I find wrong.

The comments under the video are scary. How could anyone, let alone those "professional judges", see that edge and still able to call it correct and "haters gonna hate" when a person pointed out an overlooked mistake? This is horrible, the ignorance, blindness and foolishness are destroying standards and values

Blind belief in authority is the greatest enemy of truth.

 

[Miller]

Chris Howarth, the Eurosport commentator, was doing his nut at the lack of edge calls in the Ladies LP - 2 of them, Ashley Wagner and Kailani Craine. Are these being ignored because it's a World Champs, they don't want to hammer the Ladies more because of going after under-rotations, or because the technology is not up to it, 1 camera in the wrong place and they can't see the TV stuff?

Having said that I've never heard a Eurosport commentator even mention Evgenia's edge, the only time I've ever heard it mentioned by a British commentator was Robin Cousins at last years World Championships and even then only in the replay. Strikes me that the judges just aren't as interested in edge calls as they are under-rotations, plus to me it seems Evgenia's edge is definitely a bit better than it was last year (bit like her 2A). However it is sad for all those ladies that do correct edges and are losing out as a result.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

What has she gotten better on, outside of putting both arms over her head in a couple of the jumps? Because that's literally the only thing she improved at all to me, while at the same time I think some of her footwork has gotten weaker. Her footwork sequence in the long program at worlds was notably more labored (and of course total crap in terms of choreography and musical interpretation) than what she did last season.

Her transitions are certainly more ambitious - look at her SP's 3L for example. And her exit transitions are also more difficult. I also think she's gotten faster than last season.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Speaking of popular Olympians. Is Elena Dementieva still popular? She never won a Grand Slam but, she did win the OGM in 2008 to go along with her Silver Medal from 2000. She was a tennis player. I know that Tennis Star Marat Safin became a politician but, I never hear about Elena. http://www1.pictures.gi.zimbio.com/Olympics+Day+9+Tennis+66rB_HVzyh-l.jpg

Grand Slams are way more important (see Sharapova). And bombshell looks, evidently (see Kournikova, and Sharapova).

I did quite like Dementieva and kudos to her OGM. But the OGM in tennis (and other medals) tends to be a bit random - like Monica winning in Rio (which was awesome but totally unexpected - whoever bet money on her or Dementieva to win the Olympics is living like a king now).

 

[Mathman]

The comments in the video are scary...

Very much so. These videos are nothing but propaganda. I wish their makers would get a life.

Medvedeva is not a threat to Yuna Kim.

Anyway... I don't know whether or not Medvedeva will one day be regarded as among the greats, but to me there is nothing wrong with the construction of her programs. If she wants to act out a little story as part of her performance, that's OK by me.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

As much as I want to give leeway, since you mentioned Yuna, may I remind you that Yuna had already begun showing sophistication and maturity in her skating early on:

Yuna in her first senior season (age 16, same as Evgenia in her first season) skated to Tango de Roxanne and Lark Ascending.
Per Dick Button... "For sixteen... this is one sophisticated young lady." "This is a sophistication far belying a sixteen year old."

Next year is Evgenia's third season as a senior skater. Yuna in her third senior season skated to Danse Macabre and Scheherazade.
Would Evgenia be seen under a different light had her programs and choreography been different? Maybe?

True that Yu Na sophistication was greater than Medvedeva, however her difficulty, transitions and jumping consistency weren't comparable. Yu Na only skated a handful of clean competitions (2010 Olympics, 2013 Worlds, and 2014 Olympics - with 6-triple freeskates, at that). Medvedeva has delivered 4 clean competitions (with 7-triple free skates) this past season alone.

 

[Klarnet]

That is EXACTLY what I'm trying to say! You cannot compare today's PCS to those of past years - the criteria has changed (heck the criterias has even changed in between the time it took for Yuna to take silver in 2011 and gold in 2013 Worlds), and then get pissed that current PCS is MORE than previous generation's. Which is why I'm genuinely baffled people like TheCzar kept repeating how this is proof that Evgenia is 'gifted' the scores.
Keep repeating a fallacy often enough and it will be truth, I guess >.<

Mao at Worlds 2013 had multiple mistakes, clean skates usually get higher PCS. The thing is you can reduce everyone's PCS by 5 points, Evgenia still gets 71! Which is current Costner's and Osmond's "bloated" score. It's not just about bloated PCS across the board, it's about how far ahead of everyone she is without reasonable basis, so yes, she IS overscored

 

[Mathman]

True that Yu Na sophistication was greater than Medvedeva, however her difficulty, transitions and jumping consistency weren't comparable. Yu Na only skated a handful of clean competitions (2010 Olympics, 2013 Worlds, and 2014 Olympics - with 6-triple freeskates, at that). Medvedeva has delivered 4 clean competitions (with 7-triple free skates) this past season alone.

The difference is simply that Yuna has established her place in the firmament of skating history. Evgenia? We'll see.

 

[YesWay]

Chris Howarth, the Eurosport commentator, was doing his nut at the lack of edge calls in the Ladies LP - 2 of them, Ashley Wagner and Kailani Craine. Are these being ignored because it's a World Champs, they don't want to hammer the Ladies more because of going after under-rotations, or because the technology is not up to it, 1 camera in the wrong place and they can't see the TV stuff?

The one in bold is most likely^

Find a "lutz corner" where tech panel's camera is side-on to the skater, and do the lutz there. It is an ancient technique.

There were many other uncalled edge violations at WC... they weren't all in the same place (eg. I don't think Hongo's was in the same place as Medvedeva's)... but I wonder if they were all performed at similar angles relative to the tech panel's camera?

I seriously doubt that obvious edge violations are deliberately "overlooked" by tech panels as a matter of routine, across multiple competitions, for any skater...

The dodgy thing to me... is why ISU don't do something about the shortcomings in the system, when they are so obvious to the TV audience? Do they want people to be able to take advantage of "blind spots"? That would be tantamount to overlooking edge violations, without the problems or risks of trying to install corrupt tech panels. (At the very least, couldn't they choose a semi-random position for the tech panel camera each time, so the skaters would have to change their choreography/layout to deliberately use any blind spots... or at major competitions, couldn't they replay broadcast TV footage or the ISU stream, when the angle from their own camera is bad?)

 

[Tutto]

I find it interesting that back in the day Evgenia was very much overshadowed by other girls in Eteri's group - Polina (Shepelen) and Yulia come to mind. Just a proof how far the hard work & determination can take you. Luck I suppose plays a big role too

 

[Meoima]

I find it interesting that back in the day Evgenia was very much overshadowed by other girls in Eteri's group - Polina (Shepelen) and Yulia come to mind. Just a proof how far the hard work & determination can take you. Luck I suppose plays a big role too

I like that Zhenia just keeps on practicing and improving, when people didn't notice her and said she would break down sooner or later, and even when people hatting on her success.
I don't know if she can win Olympic, cause in one year everything might happen, but this girl really has the mentality and the hard work.

 

[temadd]

Most consistent jumper ever, yes, but definitely not the best ever.Her choreo may be difficult at times but she doesnt:t commit to it. I find her to be somewhat robotic. I am always puzzled by her highly inflated INT and performance scores.

 

[OniBan]

Mao at Worlds 2013 had multiple mistakes, clean skates usually get higher PCS. The thing is you can reduce everyone's PCS by 5 points, Evgenia still gets 71! Which is current Costner's and Osmond's "bloated" score. It's not just about bloated PCS across the board, it's about how far ahead of everyone she is without reasonable basis, so yes, she IS overscored

If that is the case, when why did when Mao had mistakes in her Worlds last year, and Evgenia was squeaky clean, people STILL complain?

whatever it is you missed my point. Whatever Evgenia achieve during her competitions, it does not take away nor diminish what the great skaters (Kim, Mao, Kostner, everyyyoooone) have done or achieved. That was their time. They were fantastic and will always be remembered as such. And this is NOW, the time for this new crop of skaters to shine. You cannot compare those two and say how one cannot live up to the other. What kind of ugly attitude is that? Why so insecure? Only people who can't let go of the past do that. And people who are SO insecure of their own myopic fanbase that they feel if someone scored more than their (now not even competing anymore skater) they have to constantly bash others in order to hold on to the past. Let it GO! And celebrate what is in front of you now.

I feel sad that this kind of bashing always happens for the ladies skaters - like what is it in humans that they just like to pit ladies against each other? Madness.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Yeah, often these conversations turn into "Medvedeva isn't the best ever and it's ludicrous to suggest she is because Kim, Kwan, etc."

It's like people are trying to find a reason to tear her down, by comparing her to the best skaters of all time (in her 2nd senior season, no less). It's pretty lame.