Men - Short Program

[satorare]

Yes. Everyone is laughing about Lambiel's score.

 

[slutskayafan21]

This event again shows how far Sandhu is behind the big guns these days.
Lambiel ended up doing only a triple toe-double toe, much less points then the triple flip-triple toe Sandhu and Buttle and others did. Both fell on their triple axels. Lambiel still beat Sandhu by almost 4 points in the short, smoking him on the PCS as well.

 

[goodbyemylover]

Hmm, I'm not sure it's fair to discount Sandhu's ability or to make fun of Lambiel's score.

This time last year, Stephane was in fourth, and then won the title.
Sandhu was in second place in the SP.

Stephane's been having motivational trouble all season, and hasn't been skating to competition standards most of the year. It would be understandable for him to do less than his best; although I do also think the high-ish score was a gift.

Sandhu is undoubtedly a talented skater, but he's got the mental issues that really block that fact out. He can match and beat the "powerhouses," but it remains to be seen when/whether he will.

Otherwise, this is a helpful thread to one who has no ability to see the SPs. Thank you very much for the opportunity.

 

[slutskayafan21]

Sandhu is undoubtedly a talented skater, but he's got the mental issues that really block that fact out. He can match and beat the "powerhouses," but it remains to be seen when/whether he will.

That would be an accurate statement 3 years ago. Not now. Sandhu has nothing in his skating that will allow him to beat the "powerhouses". He is slow now, his spins and footwork quality have done down the drain, he does not do all top level elements like the top guys are doing, and his skill set has been passed by. I already pointed out that Lambiel had the same 1 mistake Sandhu had, but in addition to that more in the way of mistakes and lost points then Sandhu by multiple points, and still managed to beat Sandhu by multiple points in spite of that. That is a sign of the current reality for Sandhu, living in the "if Sandhu is on he can beat anybody" thing is living in a time warp.

 

[lutzskate]

A "quadless Buttle" sounds like some sort of rare water bird.

thanks for the laugh dutchherder! hilarious!

 

[lutzskate]

Does anyone else think that Joubert and Buttle should be neck and neck at about 80 or 81 points with Mabee in 4th? I watch all the performances and joubert shouldnot have gotten component marks like that. His components should have been like 36.5 and Buttle should have had Brian's original components score. Chris should have had at least 34 for components.

I give Joubert total props for his jumps. His quad combo was exquisite. But his choreography was so lame! Who choreographed his programs for him - Elvis Stojko? Even Elvis wouldn't be that obvious. The pretending to shoot and the pretending to drive were all so juvenile! It was actually embarassing. And what is it with the French and their obsession with pleather?!

 

[goodbyemylover]

That would be an accurate statement 3 years ago. Not now. .... That is a sign of the current reality for Sandhu, living in the "if Sandhu is on he can beat anybody" thing is living in a time warp.

Yes, but I was actually referring to last year's performances from Sandhu. He displayed slivers of his obvious talent. I am not saying he has a chance of medalling or placing, or to improve his placements. I'm merely stating the man has natural talent. However, you do have your opinion, and I wholly respect them.

(I love the Quadless Buttle statement as well! It's incredibly adorable.)

 

[lutzskate]

Originally Posted by goodbyemylover
Yes, but I was actually referring to last year's performances from Sandhu. He displayed slivers of his obvious talent. I am not saying he has a chance of medalling or placing, or to improve his placements. I'm merely stating the man has natural talent.

When I saw Sandhu skate at the Nationals Gala, he was absolutely mesmerizing. He skated to Ave Maria (I believe; someone correct me if I'm wrong) and he just floated across the ice. His spins and his jumps were effortless. I guess there was no pressure.

I wish he would choose that type of music for his competition, and just rely on his ballet background to calm his nerves and boost his confidence.

 

[screech]

I'm with those who think Lambiel was given a huge gift. A fall on the 3a that really disrupted the program - look how long it took him to get up from the fall! And then the 3toe/2toe... yet he's in 6th, ahead of someone like Chris who just went out there, nailed every single element (and should have gotten +GOE on every element) and sold it for all its worth. To be fair, Chris WAS ranked 3rd (behind Brian and Jeff) in the TES, but his PCS should have been higher too.

Also, Brian being the highest in PCS? WTF? I will admit that he sold that program for all its worth, but there isn't much to the program, the occasional gun shooting, a bit of punching and some pretend car driving. It's every drunk male's dream! But it's not a choreographical masterpiece or anything. Jeff should have had the highest PCS, yet he was ranked 4th in PCS (After Joubert, Lambiel and Takahashi). That makes no sense to me!

I do agree with the top 3 being placed as they are, and through Brian's performance there was absolutely no doubt he would be a bit ahead of Jeff. But in being a bit ahead, I was thinking 1-2 points, not 4. I thought Jeff would have gotten the higher PCS and levels on footwork to keep them closer. Not realizing that there was a chance Takahashi had cheated his combo (which looks like the case from the slo-mo replays and his scores), I had thought he and Jeff would have been neck and neck, but knowing now about the cheat, I can understand his scores.

I would have had Weir, Lysacek and Mabee close together between 5-6, and would have been happy with any order from them. Chris nailed it and sold his program, but he still doesn't have the quality of the other 2, so that's why I might not have had him ahead, but I DEFINITELY would have had him ahead of Lambiel. I hate to say it, but it does have to be said... Lambiel likely got a bit of a gift for being the reigning world champion.

As for Sandhu, I was actually kind of happy with his performance. He skated smart, and didn't let his fall destroy him for the last jump. And he kept the performance up. That being said, there wasn't much choreography there for him to perform - he could have done SO MUCH with that music, but Joanne just should NOT be a choreographer. Get thee to David Wilson! STAT! And as for comments about his speed, it looks to me like it has improved, however his major problem is his insane telegraphing into his jumps. Gliding like that and settig up, he slows down, and then having such a long set up gets him more worked up into it. Boy needs to just go right into the jumps rather than telegraphing like that. It looks ugly and screws him over. On another note, I'm almost ashamed to admit that that neon shirt and costume has kind of grown on me!

Anyways, it's nobody's title for sure yet, and nobody is guaranteed anything. Yes, Brian is 4 points ahead of Jeff, and almost 10 ahead of everyone else, but anything can happen! He could bomb. Jeff could pull off a quad (he has landed it in practice there...). Evan could pull an Evan. Emanuel could have a major comeback. Between Emanuel in 11th and Daisuke in 3rd, there's only about a 5 point difference, so lots could happen! I love it when it's exciting like this - nobody knows for sure what's going to happen and it could be verrrry interesting.

That being said, GO JEFF, Chris and a little bit of Brian!

 

[lehmeh]

I realize that we all have a right to our opinion, but this theme of "this Canadian should be higher" and "that Canadian should be higher" is getting tiresome.

First it was Dube and Davison should be higher than Inoue and Baldwin.

Now Jeff should be higher than Brian. And Chris should be higher than Johnny, and Chris should be higher than Evan. And Chris should be higher than Stephane...

I'm wondering if any of you that think all these Canadians are undermarked have ever, ever thought that a Canadian's placement was too high? Or is it always that the poor Canadians are always undermarked because those dumb old judges have no idea what they're doing?

 

[DaveT]

I realize that we all have a right to our opinion, but this theme of "this Canadian should be higher" and "that Canadian should be higher" is getting tiresome.

First it was Dube and Davison should be higher than Inoue and Baldwin.

Now Jeff should be higher than Brian. And Chris should be higher than Johnny, and Chris should be higher than Evan. And Chris should be higher than Stephane...

I'm wondering if any of you that think all these Canadians are undermarked have ever, ever thought that a Canadian's placement was too high? Or is it always that the poor Canadians are always undermarked because those dumb old judges have no idea what they're doing?

Canadians lurve their skaters!

 

[Tigger]

After finally getting to see the SP's on CBC CC's afternoon highlights show (of all the times for the power to go out last night... ), I don't have a problem w/the placements, but do agree that Brian should be a bit closer to Jeff points wise. Yes, both had problems w/the lutz, but Brian did touch down w/his hand while Jeff managed to save his. The difference was the combinations and I don't have a problem there as Brian did a lovely quad combo.

It's the components though. No way does 007 stack up w/Jeff's Tango. While Brian does sell the hell out of the 007 program, the steps, the quality of spins...It's just not on par w/what Jeff can do and due to that, they should be a bit closer going into the LP's tonight.

However, what are you going to do when you're at home and comfy in your PJ's, right?

 

[jennylovskt]

Great SP for Joubert! I am happy for him. Wish he will get the title this time.

Even though Johnny's SP score is not impressive, at least he beat Evan again. This should give him a little boost. He seems to be affected by it easily. There is a great chance for him to be what we considered successful - stay in the top 6, possibly top 5. He is way better in spirit than last year at the Worlds. And I think he will skate great compare with his last Worlds' LP.

Good for Evan to try quad combo in SP! What a fearless fighter! although his skating doesn't move me much in general, I respect his courage a lot!

Sad for Lambiel. A big question mark for him in LP. I hope he could get medal.

It seems that the Japanese men didn't react too well under the huge pressure and expectations at home. I don't think there is any promises that Takahashi will do well in the LP.

It looks like that Joubert will be gold. Buttle, Lysacek, Lambiel, and Takahashi will compete for the podium. My best guess at this point is

Joubert
Takahashi
Buttle
Lysacek
Lambiel
Weir

But my wish at this point is

Joubert
Lambiel
Buttle
Weir
Takahashi
Lysacek

 

[lehmeh]

Canadians lurve their skaters!

Nothing wrong with skater lurve, lol, but many folks have gone way beyond lurve to wuz robbed excess.

 

[Tigger]

II'm wondering if any of you that think all these Canadians are undermarked have ever, ever thought that a Canadian's placement was too high? Or is it always that the poor Canadians are always undermarked because those dumb old judges have no idea what they're doing?

Not all of us think our skaters placements are deserved. I can think of numerous gifts Sandhu's gotten in the past, as well as Elvis Stojko. I know I'm going to be flayed alive for that one, but Elvis always got higher Artistic Impression as a rule than he actually deserved. There were one or two exceptions, but those were the exception rather than the rule.

 

[cloudkicker09]

I really really really want Brian Joubert to win the World Title, he totally deserves it after the season he has had. But in no way shape or form should Jeff be any closer to Brian then he already is. Brian landed a 4t-3t, Jeff did not even attempt a quad. I am sorry but technical elements and difficulty will always beat artistry.

I also believe that considering this is Japan, that yes both Japanese mens skaters are under a lot of pressure from the media to deliver and I am sad to say that both of them might choke. But if the judges are kind they might hold up Takahashi, then again the judges did not hold up either Sandu or Buttle last year when worlds were held in Calgary, Canada.

 

[screech]

Now Jeff should be higher than Brian. And Chris should be higher than Johnny, and Chris should be higher than Evan. And Chris should be higher than Stephane...

I'm wondering if any of you that think all these Canadians are undermarked have ever, ever thought that a Canadian's placement was too high? Or is it always that the poor Canadians are always undermarked because those dumb old judges have no idea what they're doing?

I don't think that people are saying that Jeff should be higher than Brian in placement, just in PCS, and even if I wasn't a fan, I wouldn't think that should really be disputed. I'm a Jeff fan through and through, but Brian should definitely be in first and out of everyone, I think Brian most deserves to win and I want him to win the title. As for the Chris should be higher than arguments, looking at the techinical scores, Chris should be (and is) ranked higher than those other skaters (being 3rd in the TES scores), but the general consensus seems to be that everyone always seems to say how 'jumps are what makes the skating' and 'jumps trump artistry' so if that's the case, then Chris should be above everyone Johnny, Evan and Stephane. I can fully admit that Chris needs to work on his PCS a lot more to be a world contender, though he sold his program. My argument wasn't that he should be ahead of Johnny and Evan overall, just that he should be a bit closer than those two. And that if 'jumps trump artistry' then he should be ahead of Stephane.

And as for whether Canadians have been given gifts, YES! Lots of times. 2005 Worlds, Jeff was lucky with the silver. Elivs was given many gifts. Kurt was given gifts, Emanuel was given gifts (um, 2003 GPF anyone?) Every country is given gifts and placed higher than fans think they should be every now and then. And I'll be the first to say that I would gladly retract my statements about how I, as a viewer, think people should have been scored, in a thread where everyone is discussing this topic and most people seem to be in consensus, if there are reports from people there live who saw something that can only be seen in person that didn't come across on TV. Things like yes, Takahashi had better speed than Jeff. Or maybe Stephane's program seemed to reach to the top row of the arena whereas Chris's only reached half way up. But as a viewer, watching at home, looking at what I saw, I am free to offer my opinion, and if you think it's favouring Canada, then so be it, but it's my opinion.

And as for, how did you put it? "because those dumb old judges have no idea what they're doing?" I happen to have some judging certification myself, so take these opinions as those of a judge who just happens to be at home rather than in Tokyo.

[/snarky rant]

 

[slutskayafan21]

I am a Canadian and I like Jeff, but Stephane is my favorite skater and I hope he sticks it to all you haters who says he was given a gift and comes all the way back with a great free skate to win the silver, or even the gold should Joubert stumble. I dont know if he will but seeing all the Lambiel haters in here talking about him being supposably "held up" makes me want him to stick it to you all that much more. GO STEPHANE!!!!

 

[zandor]

GO BRIAN! You can do it!:agree:

 

[Tigger]

Thank you for that screech.