Men SP

[Brandi_DeLain]

I don't think it's a good idea to go for a quad in the SP until you've pretty much mastered it in your LP. The LP is much more forgiving if you don't hit.

Evan's quad attempt was downgraded to a triple, plus he lost points for the fall and not being able to add the combo. If he'd done a 3-3 combo instead, he'd be much closer to Takahashi (who managed 80.04 without the almighty quad).

If you can score 75-80 without the quad, why even bother trying it? The potential gain doesn't outweigh the risk, IMO.

~ Brandi ~

 

[Mathman]

Thanks for posting, Brandi DeL. Welcome to the forum.

I can't fault Evan for going for the quad, though. Evan wants to win a world championship and the Olympic gold medal. The only way he will ever do that is quad, quad, quad. He needs to attempt it every time out, falls and all, if he hopes to achieve his long-term goals.

 

[Ximena]

Thanks so much for the reports, Ximena. What a great read this thread is this morning!

Edited to add: But I did have one question: what color was Lysacek's costume?

I'm glad you enjoyed the reports, it was my first time doing PBP, it's so much easier to wacth this when you're favorite it's not competing at all and you can relax,

What color was the costume? I seemed to have black out for a minute and now I no longer remember.

The problem with Evan keep trying the quad, with a chance of falling, is that if I'm not wrong, he has a delicate hip, if he keeps falling on the hip or keep pushing the quad before being ready, it may cause some serious problem. Didn't he had a hip injury already?

 

[Brandi_DeLain]

Thanks for the welcome, Mathman!

I hear what you're saying about Evan needing to pound the quad if he wants to achieve his goals, but I'm going to argue with you anyway, lol.

I've read that he planned a 4T-3L combo (14.0 base value). I've also read that he was doubling-down on the loop in practice, and a 4T-2L is only 10.5 base value (only .5 more than a 3Z-3T). It just doesn't seem worth the risk to me.

I have to admit I'm not a big fan of the quad, so that clouds my judgment. I'd much rather see a smooth, well-executed 3-3 than a wonky quad attempt. Having said that, I do think a quad is necessary in the LP to be competitive.

Also, Thank You to everyone who posted scores/reports.

~ Brandi ~

 

[demarinis5]

Thanks for posting, Brandi DeL. Welcome to the forum.

I can't fault Evan for going for the quad, though. Evan wants to win a world championship and the Olympic gold medal. The only way he will ever do that is quad, quad, quad. He needs to attempt it every time out, falls and all, if he hopes to achieve his long-term goals.

I´m really glad that Evan had the guts to try to jump the quad-combo now early in the season. This time it did not succeed (he did it at the warm-up though), but practicing and trying to do it at competitions is the only way for him to get it more consistent. WOW, go Evan, go Daisuke & others!!!

Count me in as one who thinks including the quad in his SP is a good move for Evan. He is going to need a quad in his SP and LP to remain competitive with the other men and for a realistic chance for gold in 2010. Good strategy. JMO

Thanks for all the reports.

 

[Fozzie Bear]

I love Patrick Chan's program. Finally someone does a good program to Tan Dun's music! I'm glad to see he has a great 3 axel now. His speed, flow, carriage, and expressiveness are first rate, as Dick would say.

I watched Takahashi's SP after seeing Chan's, and I must say I still very much dislike Morosov as a choreographer. Takahashi is an intense and interesting skater--he deserves a program with actual choreography and transitions. There was not much in that program besides the big footwork sequences. Jump, jump, jump right from the beginning.

 

[Linny]

Huh?

The previous poster thought Takahashi had only jump jump jump but I totally didn't see that. I saw some rockin and some rollin and a totally amazing program.
Linny

 

[skatingfan04]

Great for Reynolds to land that quad in the short. I believe it's a jump he's been doing for a while now, though. He landede two quads in hes FS at last years nationals, and they were great jumps, albiet two footed. It seems he has the temdancy to two foot the quad, but he rotates it fully, so he gets big marks for them anyway. Good for him to go for it.

 

[Ximena]

I know most of you won't care a bit about this, but Plush is at SA!!!

I'm so happy, I don't know why!!

 

[Fozzie Bear]

The previous poster thought Takahashi had only jump jump jump but I totally didn't see that. I saw some rockin and some rollin and a totally amazing program.

"To each his own" definitely applies to skating. Three consecutive jumping passes at the top of the program, followed by nice elements that weren't really connected by any transitions involving the feet. That's what I saw.

 

[slutskayafan21]

I don't think it's a good idea to go for a quad in the SP until you've pretty much mastered it in your LP. The LP is much more forgiving if you don't hit.

Evan's quad attempt was downgraded to a triple, plus he lost points for the fall and not being able to add the combo. If he'd done a 3-3 combo instead, he'd be much closer to Takahashi (who managed 80.04 without the almighty quad).

If you can score 75-80 without the quad, why even bother trying it? The potential gain doesn't outweigh the risk, IMO.

~ Brandi ~

Evan isnt good enough to score in the 80 range with no quad. His international PB in the short with no quad is a 73-something (for a clean performance). He couldnt even get an 80 for a clean short program with no quad at his own Nationals, with the inflated scoring there, so of course he wont at an international event. So to get the kind of score a better overall skater like Takahashi gets without a quad, he has to try the quad.

 

[tilak]

I agree that Evan needs a quad in the SP unlike Johnny Weir, for example, who received a score of 80 points (if I remember correctly) in his short at the Olympics in Torino.

 

[slutskayafan21]

I agree that Evan needs a quad in the SP unlike Johnny Weir, for example, who received a score of 80 points (if I remember correctly) in his short at the Olympics in Torino.

Weir's score at the Olympics was actually 80.00 dead even. I think Oda, Takahashi, Weir, Buttle are maybe the skaters who could get away with no quad in the short. I would add Lambiel to that, except in the past is likely to pop/miss the triple axel which is why he has to do the quad (I hope this year Lambiel has a brand new triple axel for us all to see ).

 

[SailorGalaxia518]

I know most of you won't care a bit about this, but Plush is at SA!!!

I'm so happy, I don't know why!!

Probably checking out the Men's competition to see what they are doing so that he will know what to do for his comeback................He is not stupid

 

[Ximena]

Probably checking out the Men's competition to see what they are doing so that he will know what to do for his comeback................He is not stupid

I think it's mostly Mishin dragging him to SA so he can check on him more closely. Still, I'm glad he is around.

 

[oxade21]

Evan isnt good enough to score in the 80 range with no quad. His international PB in the short with no quad is a 73-something (for a clean performance). He couldnt even get an 80 for a clean short program with no quad at his own Nationals, with the inflated scoring there, so of course he wont at an international event. So to get the kind of score a better overall skater like Takahashi gets without a quad, he has to try the quad.

Evan's problem is not a quad but consistency, he is one of those skaters who will never be able to deliver two clean programs. That's why I think he is destined to end up being 2nd or 4th.

 

[slutskayafan21]

Evan's problem is not a quad but consistency, he is one of those skaters who will never be able to deliver two clean programs. That's why I think he is destined to end up being 2nd or 4th.

Well he is generally a very consistent long program skater so that still puts him ahead of most of his rivals who rarely skate a clean short or long- Lambiel, Buttle, Weir, as some examples. I actually think one of his strengths is he makes less mistakes and is more consistent then many of his competitors. He often misses something in the short program, but most of his rivals make more mistakes then them and that is how he is able to beat some of them.

 

[oxade21]

Well he is generally a very consistent long program skater so that still puts him ahead of most of his rivals who rarely skate a clean short or long- Lambiel, Buttle, Weir, as some examples. I actually think one of his strengths is he makes less mistakes and is more consistent then many of his competitors. He often misses something in the short program, but most of his rivals make more mistakes then them and that is how he is able to beat some of them.

I am not talking about those skaters, I am talking about his presumed goal to become world champion or olympic champion. In oder for him to win, he needs to be clean in both programs with no high difficulty content, or he can bomb one part but deliver super difficult and absolutely clean other one. He can do that technically but in oder to overcome HUGE PCS scores Dai and Stephane gets he needs at least two quads in long and one in short. I think that's his strategy and that what Joubert is doing more successfully. Well, good luck to him, but please have some variety in costumes and music department, I am sure the judges will start notcing that soon too.

 

[slutskayafan21]

I am not talking about those skaters, I am talking about his presumed goal to become world champion or olympic champion. In oder for him to win, he needs to be clean in both programs with no high difficulty content, or he can bomb one part but deliver super difficult and absolutely clean other one. He can do that technically but in oder to overcome HUGE PCS scores Dai and Stephane gets he needs at least two quads in long and one in short. I think that's his strategy and that what Joubert is doing more successfully. Well, good luck to him, but please have some variety in costumes and music department, I am sure the judges will start notcing that soon too.

So basically you are saying he has to start matching the combined jump difficulty/consistenty of Joubert to have a shot to win the biggest titles, and he isnt able to do that up to now. I agree with that then. Mind the judges also love Joubert and give him arguably generous GOE and PCS too.

As for the lack of variety in costumes and music, I think part of that is he has painted himself as the "macho and masculine" skater to contrast to his American rival Weir, and has almost mocked anything effiminiate about the sport, so he has painted himself into a corner of what looks and music he can use without being wary of treading into that territory.

 

[GoldMedalist]

If Takahashi had done his short program from tonight at Worlds he would be the World Champion right now, unless Joubert went into attack mode more in the long. It was his short program that cost him the World title.

He should be World Champ right now anyway; his Short Program at 2007 Worlds was great. But, I digress.