Men's Free Skate

[Mathman]

The only one who I think should have been higher was Lysacek.

Absolutely. What a great routine! He's the next Matt Savoie. All those dance moves really made the program come to life.

I also liked Serov. Very clean. (LOL, when Dick Button complemented him for his simplicity of movement, and then right afterwards had to say, well, except for that arm flailing right there.)

I think this is the first skating contest ever where I liked the men better than the ladies.

There were some missed jumps, but overall I thought all of the performances they showed were excellent.

Mathman

 

[lavender]

Mike should have at least been 2nd. I don't get it. Joubert has the worst program out there and even if he skates clean it's a bad program. I swear he needs to get rid of that ridiculous footwork and hire a new choreography. I really liked him when I first saw him skate to that Untouchable soundtrack then he hired Yagudin.

 

[Matt]

Just finished watching it on TV, lol!.....

As the tag line of this post suggests, the ABC coverage just finished airing here in my part of the world

I was very impressed w/ Ryan Jahnke's skating. Aside from the fact that I'm a sucker for Grieg's Piano Concerto in A minor , the programme really highlighted the very lyrical quality of his skating that I haven't noticed before. What I think really helped him under CoP was the use of all the MITF as entrances into particular jumps in the middle of the programme, such as the back spiral-tano 3lutz combo. The question mark for him is the same one it has always been: can he land at least one 3axel on one foot?

I do think Lysacek should have gotten a little more credit for his programme. He had similar difficulty and creativity with the entrances in the middle of his programme (the wally-3lutz-3toe....I'm sorry... ). He did have problems with the 3axel like Jahnke and really died off at the end of the programme due to fatigue, but if Jahnke could go from 4th to 2nd with his programme, Lysacek deserved something too.

Joubert surprised me. I'm a Baboo fan of the highest order, but I was very disappointed. I don't remember him being that inconsistent that early in the season. He isn't the picture of consistency that Dick Button made him out to be in the commentary, but I don't remember him ever being that inconsitant. Of course, with a 12 point lead going into the FP, he wasn't going anywhere, but it was still disappointing. I like his FP, though; I love the music to "1492" and I think it has a lot of potential

 

[Mathman]

Okay, I'm confused. I thought Michael's music was great, loved the shirt and the overall program. I would have had him in second, maybe even first. I also liked Ryan's program, but his two falls on the triple axels to me marred the program quite a bit. And what's with Joubert ending up first? I had him in third........I guess I don't really understand a system that puts skating cleanly behind splats.....42

Show, here's the link to the detailed scores for each judge, if you want to see where the points came from that put Joubert first. (No points for Michael's cool shirt, alas.)

http://www.isufs.org/results/gpusa04/GPUSA04_Men_FS_Scores.pdf

Joubert won over Jahnke overall because Joubert was 12 points ahead of Jahnke after the short program -- an impossible gap to overcome.

Comparing Joubert to Weiss, they both got credit for a quad. Michael got a -1.8 for two-footing his, and Joubert got a -2.8 for falling. So Joubert did not lose too much ground there. The clincher was that Joubert got credit for two thriple Axels, one in combination, each with a start value of 9.0. Even though he again got a negative COE, that's still a lot of points to make up.

Jahnke, in his interview with Peter Carruthers, commented on the fact that even though he didn't attempt a quad and fell on both of his triple Axels, he was still well aware of his chance to rack up a lot of points here and there in the second half of the program. He skated a very CoP-savvy program.

MM

If link doesn't work, go to

http://www.isufs.org/results/gpusa04/index.htm

and click on Judges Scores PDF

 

[dr.frog]

I was very impressed w/ Ryan Jahnke's skating. ... The question mark for him is the same one it has always been: can he land at least one 3axel on one foot?

I'm told that the axels in his programs were the only ones he missed all week! :sheesh:

 

[show 42]

Thanks Mathman........I knew the CoP was going to be complicated, but this seems to be way too much analyzing for a 4 minute program. We went from simplistic to impossible with the changes in the two systems. There's got to be some middle ground here..........I know, let the audience vote with little electronic keypads!!! 42

 

[cheekers85]

Jahnke

I totally agree with BronzeisGolden and Matt. I was really entranced by Jahnke. Wow what a beautiful skate and skater! He showed alot of lyriscism here and what a good program. I loved all the inbetween entrances, did he do a back low spiral into a flying sit? Soo cool. But the two splats was a little much to take for a medal performance (maybe one) and Joubert too. This Cop is confusing right now but I feel like it has promise. I guess i am going to have to commit to really learning more of it and understading it soon- instead of just thinking like the old system. (lol)
Overall I was really happy for Jahnke. It's great to see that he has the capability i think of placing really high this year with the judges.This is my kind of skater, and the kind of skating I prefer. And the kind that seems rarer in the men. I will watch that progam again sometime soon even with the two falls and glad to have it one tape. I hope does a good clean one soon.

 

[Mathman]

Jahnke, without a quad in his arsenal, would be absolutely dead under 6.0 scoring. But with the CoP I think we will see a lot of good scores without quads.

 

[show 42]

Jahnke, without a quad in his arsenal, would be absolutely dead under 6.0 scoring. But with the CoP I think we will see a lot of good scores without quads.

Ah, one good thing so far that I am liking about the new system.............42

 

[sk8er1964]

Ah, one good thing so far that I am liking about the new system.............42

ITA! It is so nice to see quality skating given just as much weight as the big jumps. I saw Jahnke's program at Skate Detroit and was impressed with it there. I liked Joubert's programs last year, but am not fond of this one. To be honest, I was pulling for Jahnke to win, because I thought Joubert not only performed way below his ability, but also performed a lackluster program presentation-wise. Guess Joubert's short-program lead was enough. I was pleasantly surprised with Mike's program. Last year I liked his short, but hated his long. It seemed so stilted to me. It's clear that he is likes his long this year, and I think that it will only improve as he gets more comfortable with it. I liked Lycesek's program too, but it needs work. He's good, but, IMO, not-quite-ready-for-prime-time. It will come.

 

[JonnyCoop]

Quite honestly, I don't think it was an evening to write home about for ANYONE, but then again I never expect much at Skate America anyway because it's the first major competition out of the box. However, I think the overall energy among the skaters might have been a little higher had there actually been more than 25% of the seats filled.... :sheesh:

I think Jahnke was overall the best, tho. I usually have a problem with piano concerto programs as the music tends to trill away while the skater is out there doing stuff that could be done to just about any type of music, but I think Ryan did an excellent job interpreting the music and made good use of it. [The costume, however, is another issue entirely. ICK!!!]

As for Weiss, well, one thing I give him credit for is that his programs tend to get better as the season goes on, and it will be interesting to see this one evolve. It's a good choice for him, but I think the musical selections could have been a little more daring; to me they sounded like Led Zep Muzak and he seemed to be just kind of aimlessly drifting around out there as opposed to really getting into the music and doing much with it.

As for Joubert, IMO this program has got a long way to go and he's got to REDO THAT FOOTWORK. Most of it looked completely ridicolous, especially those "pseuod-Riverdance" portions.

As for Lysacek, IMO this one needs some work, too, but he's got guts for even going near anything that Browning ever did. The program has potential, but the choreography could use, as Uncle Dick would say, some "point of view". [I'm surprised that Uncle Dick didn't actually say this, for once it would have actually made sense; did find the "fell off the curb" comment rather amusing, however, in an evil sort of way...] What I did not understand here was the fact that his score was noticeably lower than those of Joubert, Weiss, and Jahnke, and to my eye, by the time the pros and cons of each of those 4 programs came out in the wash, they were all about even. But the CoP is impossible to understand anyway without a scorecard; I was under the impression that the reason why the 0.5/1.0 system (and before that the 0.6/0.4/1.0 system) was implemented to start with was so TV viewers could make sense of the results, apparently the ISU has now stopped caring whether anyone understands the results or not.

 

[Doggygirl]

Hi Johnny...

But the CoP is impossible to understand anyway without a scorecard; I was under the impression that the reason why the 0.5/1.0 system (and before that the 0.6/0.4/1.0 system) was implemented to start with was so TV viewers could make sense of the results, apparently the ISU has now stopped caring whether anyone understands the results or not.

I agree with your point that it will take some time for us spectators to fully grasp the COP. While I agree that the 6.0 system might cater more effectively to TV viewers, I think it's a very one dimensional system that only really says something about an overall impression rather than a really detailed level of scoring a complete program. i.e. one fall can mar the overall impression under 6.0, which I think left many skaters NOT getting judged on a total program (just as one example).

I'm not sure if the 6.0 (or previous) scoring systems were designed with fans in mind or not. But shouldn't the scoring system as a primary motivation be designed to score the skaters first? They are the ones making the investments of time and money to compete. So as a fan, I don't mind having to work at a better understanding of a new system, so long as it seems more *fair* to the competitors. I know opinions differ on this - I'm just saying IMO it seems more fair to the skaters than 6.0 was to me.

I hope the technology and commentators catch up. I'm not sure if in today's world of the new system, Dick and Peggy have any instantaneous feedback (or a fast way to pick through it) to be able to say things like "so-and so's spirals were a level X, while so and so's was level Y, hence the difference in scoring." I hope things evolve in that direction, much like gymnastics.

The other thing that would be helpful would be the commentator's ability to talk about start values prior to each skate. I think it would help the viewing audience better understand placements if summaries were briefly discussed in advance in terms of each skater's planned elements. That way what on the surface might appear to be a very good performance wouldn't be so misunderstood if it's clearly a much easier routine under COP. By the same token, a performance with obvious flaws might be better appreciated in terms of skater placement if the viewer knows up front it's a much more difficult program.

Does that make sense? I think they've done a pretty good job evolving this in gymnastics. I hope the same sort of thing happens with figure skating.

DG

 

[Mathman]

One thing I like about the CoP is that at least we can see afterward why one skater won and another lost. Skater X won because he got 9 points with a +1 GOE on his triple Axel, etc., etc. We can still argue over the marks of course (hey, he should have got a +2, are the judges blind?) But at least we know what we are arguing about.

Under the ordinal system, where the marks were used only as place-holders for the ordinals, all we knew was that at the end of the day, judges 2, 3, 5, 6 and 7 thought skater X was better and judges 1, 4, 8 and 9 said, no, skater Y was better. No wonder the public perception was that the judging was all politics and deal-making.

MM

 

[euterpe]

I thought Joubert was just plain bad. He didn't deliver one completely clean jump in the whole program. Either he had to fight for the landing, or there was no flowout. He thought his footwork was GOOD? Feh! It was slow, without life, and just plain boring. I hate it that Joubert is on two feet 95% of the time. His program had none of the innovative moves and jump entrances that Jahnke's had. If he hadn't been 12 points ahead after the SP, he would have suffered Ando's fate (maybe he should have).

I, too think Lysacek wuzrobbed. The program suits him to a T, and with a little more practice he should do better at his next event.

Weiss was Weiss, two-footing the quad and never managing to land a 3A. He was lucky to win bronze. If Roman Serov had skated a less lugubrious program, Mike might have finished off the podium.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

C,mon guys - Skate America is the dress rehearsal of the season. They are all working towards their most unbelieveable skate in Moscow.

I think the first thing Brian has to do is get rid of that costume.

Joe

 

[STL_Blues_fan]

C,mon guys - Skate America is the dress rehearsal of the season. They are all working towards their most unbelieveable skate in Moscow.

I think the first thing Brian has to do is get rid of that costume.

Joe

Joe, have you seen his SP costume? The free skate costume looks very regal in comparison to that one!

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

SBf - You have to remember he is French, and I appreciate the French being different but he could do better with those costumes. BTW, I do not like him skating like a Russian. It's keeping him from developing his own style. JMO

Joe

 

[STL_Blues_fan]

SBf - You have to remember he is French, and I appreciate the French being different but he could do better with those costumes. BTW, I do not like him skating like a Russian. It's keeping him from developing his own style. JMO

Joe

Couldn't agree more. BTW, I always enjoyed French uniqueness in terms of costumes and choreography (especially Sarah Abitbol and Stephane, can't recall his last name) - but Brian doesn't excite me at all. I think he tries too hard to be like Yagudin. And while I agree that SA is a "warm-up act" - Yagudin nor Plushenko ever had such a bad skate so early in a season (well, maybe the last Goodwill games for Yagudin).

Yana

 

[Hikaru]

I think sometimes skaters go a little carried away with the costumes, as in "I-want-my-costume-to-explain-what-I'm-skating". To be honest, I didn't understand Brian's costumes this time :scratch:

 

[Grgranny]

I can't believe what I did. I checked the tape after I had it all edited. I have a new vcr and haven't learned a lot about it yet and taped the wrong channel.