Men's short

[Buttercup]

Actually, Brian is behind Patrick by almost 8 points.

Here's what I think:

1. Joubert has gotten himself into trouble with the popped jump. If he did get through the rest of the SP ok, maybe it won't affect his confidence for tomorrow too much.

2. As I wrote a few posts ago, 8 points is not that much in an LP. If you look at 2008 Worlds as an example, the gap from Buttle to Joubert in the LP was about 10 points, and from Joubert to Weir, who ended up third another 12 points. At 2007 Worlds, Takahashi nearly won it despite being 9 points back after the SP, and Dai and Brian are much closer in terms of ability than Chan and Joubert. Is it likely that Joubert/Kozuka will win? Hard to say. But it's by no means finished. Chan's PB for the LP is 145.something, which may not be enough.

3. Looks like Joubert will be getting the benefit of the doubt on PCS, so Chan will need to bring his A-game on tech. I read somewhere he was threatening two different quads and two 3As (there's no element sheet for him on Ice Network). I'll believe it when I see it, but if he can manage something near that, it would be totally cool.

I think, Brian is not in a top form yet.

Could be. But in recent years it didn't seem like he was a late-season skater. Again, I really hope it's not a confidence thing. He can certainly be his own worst enemy.

 

[hrmsk8ngnutt]

My biggest question: How many points does one get for a cheated single toe loop? Oh Brian! And I am not sure of the rule. Is it any 3 jumps required in the SP or are they named? If the rule says double or triple and the skater does only a single, how bad is that in fulfilling the requirement?

I could be wrong, but I thought that in the combination it could be a triple/triple, quad/triple, or quad/double. If he only did a single, then there is no combination and it would be deemed an omission and would get 0 points. Unless the rules have changed???

 

[shallwedansu]

Brian's PCS score is the giftiest gift I've seen in all the men's competition this season.

 

[enlight78]

Brian's PCs continue to baffle me..How does he get a higher transition score than kozuka and chan even do they have more of them and their more intricate. Do he have invisible transitions that only judges can see. I want brian to do well, but I prefer kozuka and chan.

 

[fumie_fumie]

Here's what I think:

1. Joubert has gotten himself into trouble with the popped jump. If he did get through the rest of the SP ok, maybe it won't affect his confidence for tomorrow too much.

2. As I wrote a few posts ago, 8 points is not that much in an LP. If you look at 2008 Worlds as an example, the gap from Buttle to Joubert in the LP was about 10 points, and from Joubert to Weir, who ended up third another 12 points. At 2007 Worlds, Takahashi nearly won it despite being 9 points back after the SP, and Dai and Brian are much closer in terms of ability than Chan and Joubert. Is it likely that Joubert/Kozuka will win? Hard to say. But it's by no means finished. Chan's PB for the LP is 145.something, which may not be enough.

3. Looks like Joubert will be getting the benefit of the doubt on PCS, so Chan will need to bring his A-game on tech. I read somewhere he was threatening two different quads and two 3As (there's no element sheet for him on Ice Network). I'll believe it when I see it, but if he can manage something near that, it would be totally cool.


Could be. But in recent years it didn't seem like he was a late-season skater. Again, I really hope it's not a confidence thing. He can certainly be his own worst enemy.

Excellent post..

If Brian lands one quad in a combo in LP, then it will wipe out the lead instantly. Patrick Chan is having problem with 3A as well. So I wouldn't be surprised if the placements shift around in the top 3 men.

As for PCS, everyone here find it mistifying. I noticed that judges use it quite liberally when a big gun falters in the tech elements to boost his/her placement. Tomas Verner at last year's worlds came to my mind.

 

[decker]

He did just a single toeloop?! Base value 0.4.... I think I read yesterday that 3A is this seasons required jump in the SP.

No. The required SP jumps for senior men are a 2A or 3A; any solo triple or quad with connecting steps or other free skating movements (no quad if there is one in the combo); and a jump combination (2/3, 3/3, 4/2 or 4/3). The axel and the solo 3 or 4 must not be repeated in the combo.

Last week, Verner got 0 for his combination because he had already doubled his quad toe and then did a 3Z + another 2T. I don't see detailed scores posted yet at icenetwork or ISU so I can't say what Brian got for his popped quad.

Susan

 

[Buttercup]

I could be wrong, but I thought that in the combination it could be a triple/triple, quad/triple, or quad/double. If he only did a single, then there is no combination and it would be deemed an omission and would get 0 points. Unless the rules have changed???

But it's not really different from a skater who falls on the first part of a combo and doesn't put the second jump on the end. You get the mark for the first jump in that case, too.

I wouldn't be surprised if the placements shift around in the top 3 men.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Alban Preaubert in the mix, as well. Could turn out quite interesting.

 

[so_proud]

Chan-- Perfect. Congrat!!! Chan

Jubert-- Everything was awesome except the quad failure. Felt that he has something different.

Kozuka--very neat except the fall in the entrance of the spin.

 

[Kinga]

I really hope that Chan will hold his leading position!!

Brian's PCS score is the giftiest gift I've seen in all the men's competition this season.

I don't understand Joubert's PCS either...

 

[siberia82]

I don't understand Joubert's PCS either...

Almost no one does. I was also a little miffed that his PCS was higher than Buttle's at the 2008 Worlds. Clearly the ISU favour Joubert, and they even increased the value of the quad to please him.

 

[Hsuhs]

I don't understand Joubert's PCS either...

What's not to understand? He's been skating to this crowd-pleasing music for a while. Besides, last worlds has proved that Joubert's a bigger artist than Buttle, in terms of PCS.

 

[fiercemao]

I really hope that Chan will hold his leading position!!



I don't understand Joubert's PCS either...

He's fast, he's powerful, he's showing the athletism which is truly lacking in today's figure skating world. FS is losing market rapidly because only a few rabid fans are into a universe dominated by boring femnine performances by both girls and balleria-wantable male skaters such as Johnny Weir.

 

[cloudkicker09]

What's not to understand? He's been skating to this crowd-pleasing music for a while. Besides, last worlds has proved that Joubert's a bigger artist than Buttle, in terms of PCS.

Almost no one does. I was also a little miffed that his PCS was higher than Buttle's at the 2008 Worlds. Clearly the ISU favour Joubert, and they even increased the value of the quad to please him.

I really hope that Chan will hold his leading position!!



I don't understand Joubert's PCS either...

I understand, Brian is a CROWD PLEASER, he skates t music that exictes the crowd, he has come along way from the so called "Yagudin Jr." nickname that Mishin had given him and now he is on his way. For the record, I happen to be a big fan of Brian's skating Besides the PCS today do not suprise me, THIS IS FRANCE after all and he is the hometown favorite, and the national hero.

 

[cloudkicker09]

He's fast, he's powerful, he's showing the athletism which is truly lacking in today's figure skating world. FS is losing market rapidly because only a few rabid fans are into a universe dominated by boring femnine performances by both girls and balleria-wantable male skaters such as Johnny Weir.

I agree with except for that last part. I reason I love Men's figure skating is because of the quad's, I mean look who my favorite skater is (notice the avatar), I think it is a real problem when mens skaters are ditching the quad in favor of playing it safe. If the sport continues on this pattern, then the quad will become obsolete. That would truly be a tragedy

 

[Buttercup]

Almost no one does. I was also a little miffed that his PCS was higher than Buttle's at the 2008 Worlds. Clearly the ISU favour Joubert, and they even increased the value of the quad to please him.

Actually, just as I wrote in the predictions thread, people always take issue with the PCS of the skaters they dislike. Those of us who like Brian have no problem with his PCS. Do you know what I find strange? Patrick Chan getting the tech marks he does with no quad, an iffy 3A and often with easier 3-3s.

As for the value of the quad being changed, the ISU is constantly tinkering with the system, and personally I think making the quad both riskier and more rewarding if it's done right is exactly the right thing, for once.

Besides, last worlds has proved that Joubert's a bigger artist than Buttle, in terms of PCS.

I think PCS is too subjective to "prove" anything, and much as I like Brian, I would argue that he's a better performer than Buttle, not a better artist. Jeffrey Buttle strikes me as the more musical of the two, and the more naturally graceful. Where Joubert excels is in picking music that showcases his strengths (athleticism, speed, showmanship). Think of him as an actor picking the right roles, not as the character actor who can play anything.

But all that is besides the point, because PCS does not equal artistic impression. We keep making that mistake in posts here because it is "the second mark". But PCS doesn't have that much to do with artistry, and treating it as such is what makes the scoring mystifying to some.

He's fast, he's powerful, he's showing the athletism which is truly lacking in today's figure skating world. FS is losing market rapidly because only a few rabid fans are into a universe dominated by boring femnine performances by both girls and balleria-wantable male skaters such as Johnny Weir.

I agree with the assessment of Brian's appeal. I totally disagree re Johnny, who is one of the more interesting personalities in figure skating, and about some of the ladies.

 

[siberia82]

Bradley someone has to tell him that his music is for Amercians only. He did some nice content of program but they did not please the judges due to music choice, imo.

French fans don't like Elvis Presley?

FS is losing market rapidly because only a few rabid fans are into a universe dominated by boring femnine performances by both girls and balleria-wantable male skaters such as Johnny Weir.

You obviously possess a very narrow view of gender roles. From a purely objective standpoint, there's no such thing as a purely "masculine" or "feminine" personality trait. They're ALL human characteristics. The masculine/feminine dichotomy only carries the weight that it does because a society or culture chooses to place a lot of importance on something which is essentially an arbitrary distinction.

 

[fiercemao]

You obviously possess a very narrow view of gender roles. From a purely objective standpoint, there's no such thing as a purely "masculine" or "feminine" personality trait. They're ALL human characteristics. Those masculine/feminine dichotomy only carries the weight that it does because a society or culture chooses to place a lot of importance on something which is essentially an arbitrary distinction.

This is absurd. Are you trying to force us who are not into Johnny Weir style of skating to become his fans?

It looks to me many rabid fans are happy that FS is becoming a boring, one-dimensional 'feminine' skating. This is exactly the narrow view, and narrow demographic background of many so-called die-hard fans.

 

[gold12345]

I agree with except for that last part. I reason I love Men's figure skating is because of the quad's, I mean look who my favorite skater is (notice the avatar), I think it is a real problem when mens skaters are ditching the quad in favor of playing it safe. If the sport continues on this pattern, then the quad will become obsolete. That would truly be a tragedy

I even miss triple axel-triple toe combinations. Yeah, the triple lutz-toe and triple flip-toe are nice, but just dull in comparison to the bigger tricks they should be capable of doing.

 

[Winnipeg]

I was planning to watch the SP but Eurosport was showing snooker instead.:scowl:



EGAD! WHat in the world were they thinking? I mean snooker?:scowl::scowl::disapp::scratch:

 

[siberia82]

This is absurd. Are you trying to force us who are not into Johnny Weir style of skating to become his fans?

I'm not trying to "force" you to like Johnny Weir's style, just as you shouldn't expect everyone to share your opinion on Brian Joubert. I happen to prefer musical skaters, which is why I feel that Joubert's PCS is slightly overmarked compared to Chan or Buttle. Yes, it deserves to be high because of his great power and speed; I just don't feel it should be higher than their score. But at the end of the day, it doesn't matter what I believe; only the judges determine the fate of the skaters.

I think we can ALL agree that PCS is a major headache, regardless of who our favourites are. :banging: