Michelle will be at Marshalls

[R.D.]

RD, Millie's question was about people who begrudge Irina's high scores. That is, the people who say, Irina does not deserve high scores because she is ugly, and also she is cheating by taking performance-enhancing drugs, and besides that, I never liked her anyway.

Well, you will always have doubters and haters out there, and there's nothing one can do to stop that. But you said specifically:

If anyone doesn't like the high scores Irina is getting, let them get out on the ice and do better.

This gave me the impression that you were targeting anyone who didn't agree with Irina getting high scores, even if they had a valid argument against her. So I took that to mean that in order to criticize something you don't like, you first have to "prove" that you're "better". Sorry if I misunderstood.

I'm not saying that you personally have to go out on the court and hold them to 92. I'm saying that if the other guys want to win, the only way to do it is to score 98. Complaining about the officials -- that's what losers do.

OK, yeah that makes sense. But of course, being a basketball fan, I must say that there is NO GUARANTEE of a score that a given team will produce on a given night. The Lakers might score 110 points against the Knicks, but score only 85 against the Pistons. Big difference. (Of course, even then, the numbers against the same team on different nights will be different as well.) You don't have such a difference in skating. Irina will get the same or a similar score no matter who she competes against. Arakawa can't go on the ice and try to deliberately cause Irina to make a mistake so her point count will be lower. (However, the mental image that comes to mind is funny ). There's no such thing as defense. That's just how it is in individual comps like these. You just have to do your best and hope and pray your competitors don't do as well and the judges judge fairly. (The latter shouldn't even be an issue.)

 

[gezando]

I Why how surprising that what came to your mind as an "example," in your opinion, of a skater who did not skate the best yet won the gold was Cohen's placement ahead of Arakawa in '03 Skate Canada.

From reading most forums, that is one of the more obvious one from recent history, another one more distant in history was Irina's win over Maria at NHK.

I think you've got "Get that b***h Sasha" tatooed on your brain.

Rgirl

Once again, I was not posting you, talking to you, and you started another attack. Oh please, Rgirl, talk about your amydala, or your butt all you want, and I know you called jh a GS poster a "b!tch", but please leave my brain out of it.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

It would be nice if posters use a bit of decorum in their wordings. People read into them what they think the writer said. It's the writer's fault for being ambiguous in his/her writing. If you are going to use word 'stagnating' explain it so that it is not misunderstood. What would happen if the writer had said: I see Michelle has not skated any GPs for several years now, that could lead to a stagnating condition.

When posters are constantly putting down one skater more than any other and they write something dubious about that one skater, the fan immediately sees it as a bash because the writer doesn't clarify his remarks. Otherwise the writer fully intended to bash the skater. Only the writer knows for sure.

Joe

 

[orchid]

I haven't read al the responses to this thread, therefore, I apologize in advance if this line has come in topic already.

I believe it is important for Michelle to show she can skate and skate well. So the judges may see her after this long injury.

Don't you think there is an obligation betwixt usfsa and Michelle, the US champ ?

And, most importantly, the pyshological tricks/ghosts participation in this event can offer.

 

[sarahmistral]

just 2.5 cents...

It would be nice if posters use a bit of decorum in their wordings. People read into them what they think the writer said. It's the writer's fault for being ambiguous in his/her writing. If you are going to use word 'stagnating' explain it so that it is not misunderstood. What would happen if the writer had said: I see Michelle has not skated any GPs for several years now, that could lead to a stagnating condition.

When posters are constantly putting down one skater more than any other and they write something dubious about that one skater, the fan immediately sees it as a bash because the writer doesn't clarify his remarks. Otherwise the writer fully intended to bash the skater. Only the writer knows for sure.

Joe

agreeing to disagree that "stagnating" is not offensive or a bash, in reference to *ANY* skater...when Red Dog is the writer, I understand that I'm not dealing with a Kwan-hater, or an anyone-hater, but a pretty balanced poster. But that's just me. I don't see what's so offensive or extreme about saying that Michelle, or ANY skater is stagnating...I've seen a few posts lacking decorum on GS, but that scarcely comes close, in my ever-so-humble opinion. If someone has an opinion about a skater, can't that opinion just be an opinion, rather than a bash? Like Bronze is Golden (I think it was BiG) said, saying "Michelle is stagnating" is nowhere near malicious; saying "Michelle is a loser and I hope she falls on he a$#" is very different. Though it's not as clear cut every time, I think in RD's case, it simply is. But again, just my opinion. I don't post often, and I don't come to bash; I also don't like singling anyone out and am nonconfrontational to a fault, but I feel I need to speak out - I feel RD's being singled out unfairly, regularly, with these repeated, relentless sarcastic, barely veiled digs, and it's getting really annoying.

It's starting to feel like some partisan, political nonsense - if you're a fan of skater X then it's obvious why you said something even mildly critical (even if constructively critical) about skater Y...is our current political climate seeping into Golden Skate?

sheesh,
sarah m.

sarah m.

 

[antmanb]

RD, Millie's question was about people who begrudge Irina's high scores. That is, the people who say, Irina does not deserve high scores because she is ugly, and also she is cheating by taking performance-enhancing drugs, and besides that, I never liked her anyway.

It's like saying, the Pistons scored 97 points last night. But they only deserved to score 92.

Well, they didn't. They scored 97.

I'm not saying that you personally have to go out on the court and hold them to 92. I'm saying that if the other guys want to win, the only way to do it is to score 98. Complaining about the officials -- that's what losers do.

MM

MM i have to disagree you with you there. What about when the officials have been caught cheating, it was proved to everyone that they cheated and yet they remain officials in the sport. Judges Balkov and Danilchenko were guilty of cheating and they remain judges. A crackopt system is put in place that anonymizes judging so that we can't now see who's giving out marks??? I'm going to complain about those officals til the cows home - they're crooked as anything and should have been ejected from our sport like Harding was.

Until the judging system is transparent and judges are accountable for the marks they give, i'm going to look for anything suspect in the marks that they give out, whether its overinflated PCS marks for a skater like Irina, or whether its underinflated (if taht's even a word!) PCS marks for a skater like Ando.

Ant

 

[Mafke]

The entire problem in judging is that the public perceives (or at least I do) that judges are held to a _lower_ standard than anyone else involved in the sport when they should be held to a _higher_ standard.
COP and anonymity do nothing to help this.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

It's starting to feel like some partisan, political nonsense - if you're a fan of skater X then it's obvious why you said something even mildly critical (even if constructively critical) about skater Y...is our current political climate seeping into Golden Skate?sheesh,
sarah m.

sarah m.

There is no secret who is a fan of any skater in forums even when they pretend they are not a fan of anyone.
Most of us have been around a long time and we know the regular posters who are fans of a particular skater. We also know that certain posters are obsessed with putting down a certain skater either lightly or hard to the point where they post more anti/skater remarks than praiseworthy remarks of their favorite. There is no surprise in reading these posts. There is nothing illegal about these posts. However just as this discussion is annoying ,so too are the constant remarks about one skater by the obsessed one.

I am not alone when I say that obsessed posters are boring. We know they will not contribute anything substantive to a discussion except their put downs which are all well too known. It is just as bad as constant gushing.

As an example, I would say that some fans are happy for Michelle to skate in Marshalls.. Others will speculate that there is something fishy about it. When one asks for proof of that speculation and the writer does not answer that question completely, then these retorts go back and forth. There are some posters who love to keep busy in life with these retorts moreso than giving anything worthwhile to the thread. And you know there will be pages and pages of the same argument by the same people.

As for Golden Skate, it can hold its own.The skating discussions are tops and the pyschological theories are boring. JMO

Joe

 

[dorispulaski]

Red Dog--

OT: MM- I take it you're kidding? I mean, there ARE people out there who don't like Krispy Kremes

Actually, there are a LOT of people who don't like Krispy Kremes. In New England, the Krispy Kreme stores are not doing very well. The biggest criticism is that the coffee is dreadful--and in New England, a donut without good coffee is no donut at all. The secondary criticism is that they are way too sweet, but people differ in how they describe why they do not like Krispy Kremes.

The Krispy Kreme management assumed the rest of the nation was donutless, and was salivating in eager anticipation of the first Krispy Kreme sign in their neighborhood.

And indeed, we all tried Krispy Kreme because of the hype. However, it was not a good choice by KK management.

Dunkin Donuts and several other more regional chains are still flourishing and expanding here in CT and MA. But now Dunkin is expanding along the I95 corridor and is all over Florida. The Krispy Kreme sign is less and less apparent. This is one reason the stock tanked.

Yes, we will get to skating now--describing why you do not like the taste of someone else's favorite donuts or their favorite skater's style or performances is an exercise fraught with peril. Even having smilies available does not prevent one from being misunderstood.

This is one of several reasons that I don't post very frequently any more.

Doris-who wants to see Michelle skate again and reserves judgment on stagnating until she sees the skating.

 

[Mathman]

Michelle is the Kwispy Kween.

But if you want a truly bad cup of coffee, Tim Horton is your guy. (Sorry, Canada.)

:agree:arty:

Doris P,
Give us another chance,
Where would we be
Without your great posts about pairs and dance?

MM

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Yes, we will get to skating now--describing why you do not like the taste of someone else's favorite donuts or their favorite skater's style or performances is an exercise fraught with peril. Even having smilies available does not prevent one from being misunderstood.

Good point. I agree. misunderstanding the writer's intent is the writer's fault.

This is one of several reasons that I don't post very frequently any more.

I think I'm saying for many posters that we have noticed and we've missed you. Your insights into Pairs and Dance have helped me very much in viewing these disciplines.

Doris-who wants to see Michelle skate again and reserves judgment on stagnating until she sees the skating.

Yes. The lady has been around a long time and all too frequently in the past few years. t'll be grand to see her again.

Joe

 

[Mathman]

Good point. I agree. Misunderstanding the writer's intent is the writer's fault.

I don't think Doris is saying that it is the writer's fault. To me, this puts too great a burden on the writer (we are not professional journalists and novelists, after all -- just folks trying to do the best we can.)

I would hope the reader also is prepared to give people the benefit of the doubt and is not too quick to leap to judgment.

MM

 

[swannanoa54]

I have been sitting back reading the comments about the big farce of Marshalls and Michelle being there. What a joke!!! Why don't they just give it to Michelle now even before she skates, we all know that she has it in the bag already! We all know that the Kwanics out number the rest of the fans of other skaters, all put together. They will be on the phones like bees around a hive. She will win even if she justs stands in the middle of the ice and waves to everybody. I don't see why the rest of the skaters are even going there, they should know that they are not going to win even is they do triple, triple, triples and do head stands on the ice. Be happy for Michelle now.

I don't mean to be rude at all, but in the light of everything that has happened I decided I'd take your comment and rework it a little. So please humor me because I can see this comment applying to several skaters:

(I have been sitting back reading the comments about the Olympics and Irina being there. What a joke! Why don't they just give it to Irina now even before she skates, we all know that she has it in the bag already!.....Irina will win even if she just stands in the middle of the ice and waves to everybody. I don't see why the rest of the skaters are even going there.....Be happy for Irina now!)

Ok, I just had to do that because I'm feeling a little nutsy this morning. I, personally, think this whole "skating idol" thing is ridiculous, but I will be one of those who will run up their phone bill (not a whole lot, maybe 3 or 4 calls) plus one free computer vote from each computer in my house. But I wonder why people think it's a "given" that Kwan will win? Cohen has tons of fans herself.

 

[Linny]

Goodness gracious

This thread seems to be focusing on the skaters and the performances and the sort of judging.... but I think we're missing the boat. Even if Michelle and Sasha weren't there and the biggest name was Lyudmila Pakhomova, the point of the competition is to get people to noticed the advertising! Duh! Up to 20% of network television watchers are now doing it the Tivo way and they FF through the ads. If you have to watch the show when it's broadcast in order to participate, they hope you'll notice all the nice presents you can buy at Marshall's. Tiz the season.

I'm subborn, though. I won't be watching live, guess I won't be voting. I'll see it later. Even without seeing the ads, though, I do patronize sponsors of figure skating. Can't really patronize sponsors of equestrian sports (can't afford a Rolex!) so I have to do my part some how!

Linny

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

I don't think Doris is saying that it is the writer's fault. To me, this puts too great a burden on the writer (we are not professional journalists and novelists, after all -- just folks trying to do the best we can.)

I would hope the reader also is prepared to give people the benefit of the doubt and is not too quick to leap to judgment.

MM

I think the reader in most cases, does just that. But with repeated jabs with no explanation of what the jab is all about I put the onus on the writer. Ya know, what's it all about Alfie?

And there is nothing illegal about such posts. No one especially me likes to ban posters, but there is nothing wrong with questioning what's behind the accusation . Is there?

Joe

 

[Bowers]

Every pound a skater gains, every point a skater loses, every inclusion or exclusion in an Olympic article interview, every ache or pain, every new move in a competitor's routine.....All of these are magnified in the weeks & days leading up to Olympics. Now, let's add to that an inane, professional-type competition which has absolutely no base whatsoever in amateur competition and stick it on major network television. (Grand Prix rates only cable coverage.) Let's also make it clear that it is obviously weighted toward honoring an injured icon with an overwhelming popular vote, while making no requirement that she do anything remotely similar to what she might or might not do in her national or olympic program. ... That she will likely get no relevent feedback on what she really needs for such a competitive program. Instead, let's have the general public phone, or log in and vote for who they deem is the best skater. And they can vote as many times as they wish (or have money to pay for). Need I say more?

But what about the other skaters? Surely Sasha is in a win/lose situation. If she wins, she'll lose the popular vote. And what psychological play will this have on her at Nationals. (Where is Nix in all of this? I can imagine what Tarasova's stance would be if she were still coaching Sasha. I can't imagine the hold that USFSA has over its members!) The other skaters are new to the scene from the standpoint of the general public and they have nothing to lose except time away from their competitive practice while cutting & pasting to put together two programs for this event. Quite distracting with Nationals only 30 days away and Olympics the following month! Egregious, indeed.

Raise money? Why not put together a skating beneftit/spectacular, nationally televised, between Nats and Olympics, featuring the Olympic team in their competitive and/or exhibition programs while inviting all previous USFSA Olympic medalists to do guest spots. No competition! But provide a background panel of experts in CoP (national and international) to provide written, confidential feedback to each amateur participant and his coach/choreographer.

Seems more constructive to me in this tense and anxious time for competitors.

 

[nymkfan51]

I agree Joe. If someone is going to write/post something (especially the negative stuff) ... then they should be prepared to give some explanation for it. Otherwise, the reader is very likely to become confused/frustrated/angry.

Good one, Real!

 

[Kwanford Wife]

Ok... Lots of drama about Marshalls in relation to skaters, but let's expand on DG's point from earlier regarding this format... I would hazard a guess that by making it a call-in format the following things are under review...

Marshall's approaches the USFSA and says "we just don't think we're getting the bang for the buck as a sponsor; viewership is down, casual interest is down, its expensive, etc." The USFSA, in all its logical & profit driven wisdom, proposes a format that will give a true number to the interest level as a way of proving just how popular skating is with the target Marshall's customer... in a very American Idol way... while hopefully raising a ton of money from eager little uber fans in the process... this competition has little to do with individual skaters & everything to do with money. However, because the USFSA is so bad & inept at marketing & promotion, I seriously doubt anything positive will come from it, other than seeing Kwan & Sasha skate prior to Nationals.

Thus ending the KW business class for the day.

 

[Doggygirl]

Ok... Lots of drama about Marshalls in relation to skaters, but let's expand on DG's point from earlier regarding this format... I would hazard a guess that by making it a call-in format the following things are under review...

Marshall's approaches the USFSA and says "we just don't think we're getting the bang for the buck as a sponsor; viewership is down, casual interest is down, its expensive, etc." The USFSA, in all its logical & profit driven wisdom, proposes a format that will give a true number to the interest level as a way of proving just how popular skating is with the target Marshall's customer... in a very American Idol way... while hopefully raising a ton of money from eager little uber fans in the process... this competition has little to do with individual skaters & everything to do with money. However, because the USFSA is so bad & inept at marketing & promotion, I seriously doubt anything positive will come from it, other than seeing Kwan & Sasha skate prior to Nationals.

Thus ending the KW business class for the day.

Great post - the line I bolded made me wonder if anyone has seen any advertising for this event on TV. I rarely watch anything "live" on TV these days other than news, so they could be promoting the heck out of this and I would never know. So....anybody seen any advertising? If this was advertised during the GP events, I wouldn't have seen that either as I Tivo everything and watch it later, hence speeding through all commercials.

Call me curious..

DG

 

[Kwanford Wife]

Great post - the line I bolded made me wonder if anyone has seen any advertising for this event on TV. I rarely watch anything "live" on TV these days other than news, so they could be promoting the heck out of this and I would never know. So....anybody seen any advertising? If this was advertised during the GP events, I wouldn't have seen that either as I Tivo everything and watch it later, hence speeding through all commercials.

Call me curious..

DG

You are such a smart & intuitive young woman... Of course there hasn't been any promotion for this event!!! This is the USFSA we're talking about! Advertising & promotion is beneath this board / bored group... the lack of logic, planning & execution is astounding to me!!!

Granted, I now live in Richmond vs. Detroit, but I haven't seen one commercial or promotional piece within the skating community. My family & I went skating last Saturday to the Ricmond Ice Zone (a level b/c rink here in Richmond - the sister rink to where MADE was filmed) with autographs & photos of skaters who've visited (MM - A MK photo there made me think of you!) but not one poster for a live, televised event ... but there was a display at a Marshall's retailer. You do the math... We complain all the time about Speedy & his co-horts killing the sport, but IMO, the USFSA is holding the gun...