Miki & Mao send out warning! | Page 3 | Golden Skate

Miki & Mao send out warning!

Seanibu - It's not totally the spirals that irk me. It's the whole program which the poor choreographers have to work around. I'm not sure CoP even says they have to be in sequence so that they all look the same.

Joe
 
Problem is, lack of balletic skill is not Asada's problem artistically. She is very graceful and light across the ice already. No, what she needs is some help on interpretation of music, and not ignoring her choreography/ music as the jumps come up. Her SP was lovely and full of feeling, even with the technical mistake, but her LP, with the more demanding technical content, was a huge, mechanical-looking bore.

Judging by her FP PCS's at Worlds this year (and Joubert's) giving up artistry for technical content isn't such a bad idea. Obviously doing a lot of hard jumps gets great scores for choreography and interpretation as well.:)
 
Judging by her FP PCS's at Worlds this year (and Joubert's) giving up artistry for technical content isn't such a bad idea. Obviously doing a lot of hard jumps gets great scores for choreography and interpretation as well.:)

The only people that seem to be discussing the lack of artistry are the fans, certainly not the judges. Lack of artistry did not affect Mao or Brian's PC's score at all. High tech content = high PC's score. Maybe artistry has gone out of fashion along with the 6.0 system.
 
The only people that seem to be discussing the lack of artistry are the fans, certainly not the judges. Lack of artistry did not affect Mao or Brian's PC's score at all. High tech content = high PC's score. Maybe artistry has gone out of fashion along with the 6.0 system.

Maybe those judges that do know what is real artistry? Armchair fans on some random skating boards certainly do not hold the gospel.

In terms of artistry, Mao is miles ahead of most current ladies except maybe Yu-Na. She is light, fast, and interprets music in an appropriate way, and EXCITES the audience. If Mao is not a natural artist, who is?
 
Well, what else looks anything like figures in FS? I can't think of any that are "true to" figures, but spirals are the closest there is IMO. Not they are anything like them, but as far as having ANYTHING that RESEMBLES them, I can't think of any other. Nothing IS figures but that IMO is as close as it comes anymore.

Honestly i think som eof the transitions the skaters do much more resemble figures than the spirals. Particular when a skater come to cente ice and does some transitions to s stop in a circular pattern. The spirals are just held edges and most of the ladies wobble all over the show with no real precision as to where they place them on the ice. Its the clean turns and loops in the transitions that the skaters do that i think most resemble figures.

Maybe instead of insisting that foot over head enhances the level for spirals they should say that the following things are level enhancers:
- only one cross over between spiral positions is allowed;
- difficult turns between spirals (double brackets to three turn to turn a forward sprial to backwards for example)

Ant

Ant
 
Seanibu - It's not totally the spirals that irk me. It's the whole program which the poor choreographers have to work around. I'm not sure CoP even says they have to be in sequence so that they all look the same.

Joe

Unfortunately Joe i think the COP does define the spiral and step sequences and being end to end of the rink (or width to width to make a full circle for circular step sequences) and either two full circles or a serpentine and a circle for the spiral seuquence.

Though actually i like the idea of saying keep the requirements for the spirals (with a few amendments) but instead of having to do them in a sequence you can do your four or five sprials throughout the program at appropriate times. The element list will show the caller when the intended-to-count spirals will appear so they wouldn't be completely in the dark.

Ant
 
Just to clarify.

It's not spiral _positions_ that drive me crazy (well, some of them do but that's another point) but spiral sequences with one ugly position after another with poor edge control done for the sole purpose of racking up points.

My proposal. Eliminate the spiral sequence and replace it with a footwork sequence with optional moves in the field, some of which can be spirals. Limit the number of spiral positions a skater can do in a program and punish flash-crotching spirals and punish poor changes of edge and edging in GOE.
 
Just once I'd like to hear them say they want to work on their artistry for next season. Both could seriously use it.

But they have said it. And many times, too. The problem is - they said it to the Japanese media.

Miki: "My goal for this season is to prove to everyone that Miki Ando is not all about the jumps."

Mao: "My goal is to become a perfect skater, with perfect jumps, spins, steps and power of expression."
"I want to become a bit more mature in my skating."


I think that referring to them as merely jumpers is insulting for the girls. Both of them work as much as they can on different aspect of their skating.
Mao worked not only on the jumps, but also on expression, spins, steps and spirals. Her arabesque spiral and improved Biellman with both hands on the blade are the best of those executed by senior ladies nowadays. Her SP is sublime, and I always tear up at the end of the step sequence. Beautiful, balletic, sublime.
Her LP is not as good, but I enjoyed her performance at Worlds. Everything right on music, great contact with the audience, graceful arms, nice smile during the spiral sequence. I'm not fan of the music or the choreo (although the Worlds version was much better than the previous one) but the performance was good.

Miki's LP was indeed a bit of a jumping fest, but, honestly speaking, this was as much as she was able to do at that time. I did not even expect her to go through her programs without fall. After her disastrous LP performance at Nationals she was off the ice for a long time. She is unable to do a Biellman spin, layback is painful for her and so are spirals requiring back flexibility.
For me, it's difficult to believe that this is the same girl who just over a year ago disliked skating and was intending to retire. That she was able to fall in love with skating again and in a really short time get back in shape is something amazing for me.
Plus, her SP is great - by far my favorite Scheherezade program.

I think the whole jumps issue is blown way out of proportions by the media. I think the skaters would much rather practice in peace and keep their tricks for themselves until (if ever) they are ready to incorporate them in their programs, but media follow them anywhere nowaydays. And media love big tricks. Not many of them report the tricks the skaters use to improve their presentation - ballet and modern dance lessons, watching movies and trying to copy gestures and facial expression of the actors, etc.. That does not mean the skaters are interested in jumping only. Contrary to what many fans think, a lot of them does care about the audience and want to skate programs that would be inspiring and memorable.
 
it's obvious Mao has a talent and I say go for it if you can, while you can still do the jumps.
 
Miki: "My goal for this season is to prove to everyone that Miki Ando is not all about the jumps."

Didn't see too much other than jumps at Worlds, though.
 
He meant just Miki Ando.

Also...Verner's LP was very element-centric with not much choreography? He's a great skater, though.

~Z
 
Mao's artistry

I just wanted to add that Mao seems to me to be such an artistic skater.

She listens to the music very well and everything so naturally flows with the music.

She also has everything that makes a beautiful dancer: good extension and lithe movements of arms and hands, beautiful back in spiral sequences, great stretch in her legs, and the straight posture, all of which is one of the best among the top skaters.

Her ballet foundation matched very well with the classical music by Chopin. In classical ballet, you should never be showy, but express subtle, delicate sophistication. Here's her SP without broadcasters and see how she becomes that music with all the connecting fotworks and elegant upper body movements:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tkp-5n1fb2k


I think that her musical artistry, balletic line, and reserved, fresh gracefulness are under-rated among figure skating fans. I don't think that the artistry in figure skating is all about acting, dramatic facial expressions, and voluptuous grace. I am not saying that these are unnecessary, either. While some people prefer those dramatic, theatrical styles, others prefer more reserved, classical expressions. Neither of them are less artistic than the other. Although I do enjoy dramatic/theatrical performances from time to time, I personally cannot watch them too many times.

Further, the most important factor in artistry is obviously the quality of skating. Her skating is just like floating on the cloud. While her skating is very fast, it is not like pushing by muscle power, but using the edges skillfully. Her difficult jumps and spins also have beautiful positions that naturally fit in elegant music without looking athletic.

While Mao's SP was described as the masterpiece by many people, her LP music did not appear to be too popular. Although I myself did love her LP performances a lot, I didn't think the LP music the best match with her strengths. Because this kind of music requires powerful attack to the beat, her gentle skating looks as if she were too soft. More gentle, hamonious music appears to become her smooth skating, lithe movements, and fresh gracefulness. Further, the construction/balance of the program was not as good as her SP. This program had relatively less connecting fotworks and more cross over skating especially in the beginning and the end of the program. Moreover, the same kinds of jumps were repeated (i.e., two double axels, two flips, two lutzs, one of which being a combination, respectively). Additionally, the repetition of the same melody gives a monotonic impression. It would be also difficult to keep up to the beat becoming faster and faster towards the end when the skater gets more and more exhausted.

But her LP improved a lot after a couple of revisions. Especially, the last revision that replaced the circular steps with straight line steps and more choreography in the slow part appeared to be very effective. Although this circulating melody lines give a restless impression, the slow part had a slient moment where she completely ceased to move. After these changes, I was able to appreciate the slow part much better than before. Her jumps came to exactly hit the beat and her ice-dancing-like strokes between steps also lived up to the quick beat.

She and her coach made these changes because she herself thought jumps stood out too much in her LP and wanted to improve artistry, according to her interviews before the Worlds.

She has also kept saying many times that she wants to improve her artistry, spins and the other elements.

To me, her LP at the Worlds was really enjoyable because she showed her feelings so honestly that it was filled with lively energy of her own charm.
 
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Spiral are sooooo over raaaated. Way back when school figures were a must, every lady had a good spiral because they could stay on the edge without bobbles. Nowadays, one can name the ladies on one hand with bobbleless spirals; But it seems young fans judge spirals by the free leg and not the skating leg.

Joe
 
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