misc PAIRS grumblings
- Thread starter Mafke
- Start date
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2003
ITA with what you are saying.
It seems there is a rule that states a competitor has two minutes to resume skating after an injury stoppage. Zhang took 4 minutes. A quote in the paper from coach Oleg Vasilev said "they broke the rules". However the ISU disagreed saying indeed skaters have two minutes to resume skating.....but the two minutes starts only after the event referee determines the skaters can continue. So conceibably the referee could wait a few minutes or a few hours or perhaps a day or two to decide that the competitors can continue, then the two minutes start counting down.
dlkksk8fan said:
I don't think that the Zhangs should have been allowed to resume from the point of the fall. That kind of fall, had she gotten up from it and resumed skating would have taken a chunk of their program out. No way would they have been able to regroup in time to hit all the other elements in their program. The only pair who was robbed was Pang and Tong, but I feel bad for them because P&T were the only Chinese pairs team who demonstrated decent pairs moves (SBS spins, death spiral, arabesque). Then again I am no teknik so can't tell you anything about lifts.
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2003
I have to agree with you on this one.
I agree with most here that while T&M deserved to win, they weren't the most exciting gold medalists. I also agree that Z&Z have no business being in second place.
I think pairs is just going through one of its down periods. I remember it seeming pretty bleak between 94 and 98. I remember an even less inspiring Russian pair, Eltsova and...his name escapes me...starts with a B? They won at least one, maybe two Wolrd titles. After a while, B&S, S&P and S&Z came around. I'm sure pairs will improve again.
I think pairs is just going through one of its down periods. I remember it seeming pretty bleak between 94 and 98. I remember an even less inspiring Russian pair, Eltsova and...his name escapes me...starts with a B? They won at least one, maybe two Wolrd titles. After a while, B&S, S&P and S&Z came around. I'm sure pairs will improve again.
- Joined
- Sep 24, 2003
One gripe i have with the pairs is how many pairs had lost unison! It wasn't just the Chinese. Is this a side effect of the COP? I don't remember so many pairs losing their unison on the SBS spins...
The only one I remember in SLC having made that mistake was S/Z...
The only one I remember in SLC having made that mistake was S/Z...
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2003
Due to COP, the pairs are doing much harder spins than they used to, with more changes of edges, leg, and position. It's harder to synchronize. Even pairs that generally have no problems with their spins had a problem or 2 last night, probably due to Olympic nerves 
to Pang and Tong who did the best SBS spins ever for a Chinese pair!
to Pang and Tong who did the best SBS spins ever for a Chinese pair!
- Joined
- Jul 28, 2003
You're thinking of Eltsova & Bushkov, who trained under Moskivin, Tamara Moskvinna's husband, then switching Pavlova, who has trained Totmianina & Marinin prior to their switching to Vasiliev, as well as Berezhnaja prior to her teaming up with Sikhuralidze. They did indeed win Worlds in 1996, but I would equate that to Petrova & Tikhonov's World medal.Antilles said:
- Joined
- Jul 31, 2003
Antilles said:
Yeltsova & Bushkov were world champions in 1996. They had to settle for the silver in 1997 when the gold was given to Woetzel and Steyer, inspite of them having problems on both throws. Y&B had some nice things- she had wonderful rotations in the air. They were quite pleasing to watch, but certainly not at the same caliber of the great Russian pairs of the past. It was a down period in pairs. G&G only skated in the 94 Olympics. Sergei Grinkov died in 1995. Around the same time M&D split. K&D had just paired up and were going through growing pains. Meno & Sand just could not get it done under pressure, so there were different world champs every year (93-B&E, 94 S&N, 85-K&N, 96 Y&B, 97 W&S). In 1998 B&S established themselves as a great talent. S&Z, though very raw, emerged as a pair of the future. K&D had developed enough to win the OGM.
Right now Russia is certainly going through a down period but T&M totally belong among the great Russian pairs. They have great basics, extensions, and they express themselves through their body lines. However, now that they are retiring and Pet-Tik are also retiring, there is no one to carry the torch. I have doubts about O&S despite their talent. Russia has been a leader in pairs skating for so long that it is going to feel strange. The Chinese pairs brought athleticism and excitement but they are taking away the finesse, the solid foundation, and the beauty of pairs skating. So I think for the next few years we will see a down period in pairs skating. Some new pairs may emerge, but they are likely to be from other countries - Canada and USA are very likely candidates.
Vash
- Joined
- Dec 12, 2005
i also have to agree with the fact that pang & tong were robbed. i thought their fp was phenomenal (despite a few minor mistakes) and their musicality was excellent... they also had one awesome sbs spin. even though zhang & zhang's podium placement is a bit questionable, my hat is off to them for going for the quad sal throw. anyone with the courage to get thrown across the ice, rotate four times, and land on foot gets a standing ovation in my book, and it's not like it was something "insane" for them to do... they had a 40% success rate with the move and were landing it in practice. so bravo to them for trying something new.
- Joined
- Feb 5, 2004
Mathman said:
Yep exactly - its a change in pivot position...the traditional death spiral pivot for the man is the back pivot and they switch to front pivot for difficulty.
I think its the ugliest because the men don't keep the line they end up breaking a the waist and sticking their bum's out...ugly ugly ugly....but such is the way with CoP, its seems the uglier the position, the more difficulty you rack up.
Ant
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
in line with DG's questioning the length of time for Z&Z to continue has come up from several of my friends who happen to be casual fans.
I hd trouble answering it with the referee's ok. Can anyone explain this?
Joe
I hd trouble answering it with the referee's ok. Can anyone explain this?
Joe
- Joined
- Feb 5, 2004
Joesitz said:
Joe i don't have the rules to hand but someone who is very well read quoted from the rule book to me that there is one rule about being allowed 2 mins because of a disruption pertaining to something like a lace breaking or coming loose or a piece of costume coming off, there's another about the referees whistle being blown (which is was in the case of Z&Z) in case of medical conerns/attention, once the referree is satisfied that the correct action has been taken, and the skaters decide to continue, they then have two minutes to get themselve together to pick up their program from where the referee blew the whistle.
Ant
- Joined
- Mar 22, 2004
antmanb said:
I don't follow this, they have to consult with the referee or whoever and decide whether or not to continue and get themselves together within 2 minutes?
Or does the referee blow the whistle, get the situation sorted out, and then blow it again at which point they have two minutes (that would make more sense, but being the ISU I realize making sense isn't a priority).
- Joined
- Feb 5, 2004
Mafke said:
Sorry - the referee blows the whistel to being teh progrm to an end and mark where in the music the skaters "finished". They then get medical attention/consultation. Once the referee is satisfied that the thing is sorted he then times two minutes and the music goes back on and the skaters pick up from where they left off.
Effectively the time allowed to be paused is as long as it takes plus two minutes.
Ant
