Mixed Reviews on Zhang's Debut

[carolinefan177]

Who would have thought Zhang would have her flip downgraded on her 3F-3T...I was expecting the ladder part of the combination if anything. I was really impressed by her though, and I'm glad she handled the pressure well!! Her spins and spirals were amazing as usual. She just needs to fix that flutz and her rotation problem on the 3-3.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/cs-071027skate,1,6073899.story

<3
Go Caroline!

 

[R.D.]

She had a very good debut. But can she wrap it up well? That's the question. She definitely is in the hunt for a medal here.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Her standing ovation says it all. She's part of the elite skating crowd now - no more too new for seniors talk.

 

[kandidy]

The music is too heavy for 14 years old girl. She is still lack of speed and problems with jumping technics.
Her spiral and spins were great.

 

[gio]

The music is too heavy for 14 years old girl. She is still lack of speed and problems with jumping technics.
Her spiral and spins were great.

I think the music is OK, she has to be more comfortable with it, but remember that it is the beggining of the season.
Last year music was too heavy for her, IMO. But this year she choosed it right. Plus she has matured very much. A lot more sophisticated and artistic.

About the jumps, she could train more the height of jumps IMO. Joesitz says it is not possible to train, but I think it could be trained with special gym exercises. I think it's about muscles.
Small jumps are not aestethically pleasant to watch. If she wants to beat Mao, Yu Na and Kimmie, she has to fix her jump technique and jump higher or in distance.
About speed. I think it could be trained too.

But she is 14 years of age and she could improve a lot in all departments.

 

[JonnyCoop]

Small jumps are not aestethically pleasant to watch. If she wants to beat Mao, Yu Na and Kimmie, she has to fix her jump technique and jump higher or in distance.

Small jumps didn't seem to hurt Tara Lipinski -- then again, Tara wasn't exactly competing against Major Technicians, either. ITA that they don't make for the greatest visual effect....

 

[flyingnun]

About the jumps, she could train more the height of jumps IMO. Joesitz says it is not possible to train, but I think it could be trained with special gym exercises. I think it's about muscles.
Small jumps are not aestethically pleasant to watch. If she wants to beat Mao, Yu Na and Kimmie, she has to fix her jump technique and jump higher or in distance.
About speed. I think it could be trained too.

But she is 14 years of age and she could improve a lot in all departments.

Strength is only a small part of what makes a jump go up. The majority of it is timing and knee bend. While maybe a little bit more muscle couldn't hurt caroline she can not put a lot of weight on or change her rotational inertia too much. Ultimately she just needs to spend a summer working with a jump specialist who will work the fundamentals with her.

 

[cassieandcheetah]

Small jumps didn't seem to hurt Tara Lipinski -- then again, Tara wasn't exactly competing against Major Technicians, either. ITA that they don't make for the greatest visual effect....

yeah it didn't hurt Tara at all, but it tremendously hurt Jenny Kirk, how should one explain that?

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

A proper lutz, i.e., one executed from a true back outside edge will have a skater jump higher than from a flatz or flutz.

I do believe there can be a training method to get jumps somewhat higher but not to any height worth commenting on.

I do believe there is a limit to the height one can get on a jump as genetics play a role. Some people are born with better spring in their legs than others. Not unlike some baseball players have better arms for pitching than others.In summer Olympics, the athletes doing the hurdles and those geared to the high jump are specialists in their fields. Athletic coaches know that certain people are more cut out for one thing more than another.

Esthetically, I prefer jumps with music in figure skating, but I admit a high jump can be a wow.

 

[flyingnun]

yeah it didn't hurt Tara at all, but it tremendously hurt Jenny Kirk, how should one explain that?

Tara rotated her jumps faster and more efficiently and didn't fall as much.

 

[Tinymavy15]

everybody is being WAY to hard on her. cut the girl some slack. she is 14 years old and VERY talented. she had a beautiful skate and proved she belonged among the senior ladies. she has a great work ethic and go far. she was underscored imo, but whatever.

 

[heyang]

Very few US ladies are noted for tremendous speed. The Russians seem to have the lock on speed in figure skating.

US ladies are typically known for their grace and lightness in appearance.

 

[Mafke]

Can we get a little moderation in the case of Zhang, please? She's essentially still a junior and has lots of promise and some serious technical faults (slowness, ugly take-offs and a flutz for starters).

I'd like to see her improve.But the current hype is turning me off her almost as much as I'm turned off of Asada and for the same reason (over eager fans trying for a coronation or lifetime achievement award before the skater has earned it).

No, it's not fair to the skater but there you have it.

 

[feraina]

Who would have thought Zhang would have her flip downgraded on her 3F-3T...

That's what I thought too when I first saw the slow-mo replay.

Then I re-watched it on Youtube and paused it a few frames at a time. Then it did look like the flip was more cheated than the toe. The flip looked like it was just over 1/4 of a turn cheated, where as the toe was just about 1/4. I think the 3F looked less cheated because she had more speed going into and coming out of it.

One thing I have noticed is that in downgraded jumps that don't look much cheated to the casual eye (e.g. Rachel Flatt's SP at last National's, Emily's LP at the last WC), the skater tends to exit in a direction conspicuously different than the entry. I think the early touch-down causes the blade to rotate quickly on the ice, and by the time the skater has checked out and taken control of the landing, the blades have already rotated quite a bit, thus the skater can come out almost perpendicular to the direction of entry. To me, it looked like Caroline changed direction more on the 3F than on the 3T. If my theory is correct, then I think this could be a neat shortcut for people viewing in real time to spot under-rotations without the benefit of slow-mo or frame-by-frame pausing -- but more experienced skaters, please comment on this!

 

[R.D.]

I'm willing to cut her some slack here. This is her FIRST skate as a Senior, after all.

 

[gio]

everybody is being WAY to hard on her.

Nobody was hard on her in this thread!!! We are discussing what she has to improve. It is constructive criticism.

 

[gio]

US ladies are typically known for their grace and lightness in appearance.

Yes, you are right! And we have also the exception that confirms the rule = Tonya Harding. :agree:

There is a tradition of Ice Princesses in the USA, even though I wouldn't really put Michelle Kwan in that category. She was too special. I would put her in a category of her own.

 

[wildone]

Her spins were beautiful asthetically.

 

[Vash01]

Caroline was lovely and her skate was the most enjoyable to watch, but she does need to work on some things (her kick before the jump really bothers me). She has lots of time.

 

[nubka]

I'd like to see her improve.But the current hype is turning me off her almost as much as I'm turned off of Asada and for the same reason (over eager fans trying for a coronation or lifetime achievement award before the skater has earned it).

No, it's not fair to the skater but there you have it.

ITA. I felt that way about Kwan way back when...