My Problem with Michelle Kwan and Sarah Hughes

[KwanRachs]

Re: My Problem with Michelle Kwan and Sarah Hughes

sk8cynic,

if you are interested, you should go to Cruella de Kwan's MK Video site <a href="http://www.jimandmaryjo.com/MK/" target="top">www.jimandmaryjo.com/MK/</a>. She has nearly all of MK's competitive programs on her site to download and view w/Real Player and some w/Windows Media player. That way you can view MK's jumping career. I agree that Sasha spins very beautifully in the air, with her toes pointed. She's a ballet dancer on ice, imo. Michelle is, like I heard someone on either this board or another say, a skater's skater. She's graceful, if not balletic, and she has the best lines and edging in the business,imo. They have two different, but great, styles. MK's is just more an overall elegant, confident, and consistent skater, while Sasha has some lovely elements, but not enough consistency (at this point). We'll see what next season holds, though.

FYI: I recommend watching her 2000 Worlds Red Violin LP and her 2001 Worlds Song of the Black Swan LP, specifically. She had great spring in her jumps (esp. TRV) and some really great 3/3s.

 

[Skate Sandee]

Re: My Problem with Michelle Kwan and Sarah Hughes

I like Sasha's jumps until she lands them. She has good spring, tight rotations, and perfect backspin air position. But her landing makes me cringe all the time. >>

Shine - you nailed it! The beginning and middle of Sasha's jumps are usually things of beauty. But I agree that the landings make me cringe. So I can't ever feel relaxed when she goes into a jump. I am no technical expert, but I always felt like she is landing on the front part of her blade, kinda leaning forward. Now I understand from what you described that it could be an inside edge landing problem.

Michelle's jumps could be higher, but you can't argue her consistency. (I think her problems last year were mental, not technique issues). Irina's triple loop is GORGEOUS - my favorite jump of hers. I can think of many skaters that I would cite as having more secure jumps individually than Sasha. But at least Sasha makes the little errors look good!

 

[elingrace4eva]

Re: My Problem with Michelle Kwan and Sarah Hughes

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>It's your to like any skater you want, but don't try to say you like someone and you don't based on reasons in which you can't back up.[/quote]

I did back up my reasons in my original post. I think that Michelle Kwan's landings aren't very exciting. To me. That back's up my statement. She takes off fast, and lands slow, which takes away from the excitment of the program. I won't dispute the fact that she lands all her jumps cleanly and on the right edge, but they aren't tight and lack attack. There, I backed it up.

Also, about Sarah's double axel, height doesn't make a great jump, you also have to have fast rotation and a good landing. She has great height, but is lacking in the other two. I disagree that her height makes up for it, because, to me, it looks sloppy.

I'm entitled to my opinion too.

 

[kwansong999]

Re: My Problem with Michelle Kwan and Sarah Hughes

"I think that Michelle Kwan's landings aren't very exciting"

elingrace4eva, i know how you feel. Its so boring to always see MK stand up for her landings... Oh please.

Again, i think she has very exciting landings. the curves, the line, the carriage, and flow (no dead-stops) are amazing.

I say for next year, MK should do her spins on her head... to add a little drama and excitement. <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/ohwell.gif ALT=":\">

Im entitled to my opinion as well. I agree with everyone else: You may not like a skater but dont make up things to "back it up"....

 

[eltamina]

I don't go for loud presentatio and excitement

She takes off fast, and lands slow, which takes away from the excitment of the program.

BTW, is excitement in the ISU rule book? Of course you are entitled to your opinion, but some of us just disagree with you.

You may not like it but Sarah's double axel receives a lot of credit from judges. A lot of audience love the big airy jump, with a huge amount of real estate that it covers, and the correct ouside edge exit into a spiral.

Aww, for Sarah reigning Olympic champ, it sounds so good.

For Michelle, 5 X world champ, and the most decorated skater in US history that sounds so good.

 

[SHINE2002]

Re: I don't go for loud presentatio and excitement

I never knew fast rotations make a jump great? Tara probably had the fastest rotations on her jumps yet her jumps had no spring and looked so mechanical. But to each his own I guess...

 

[VeryColdWater]

Re: I don't go for loud presentatio and excitement

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Also, about Sarah's double axel, height doesn't make a great jump, you also have to have fast rotation and a good landing. She has great height, but is lacking in the other two. I disagree that her height makes up for it, because, to me, it looks sloppy.

I'm entitled to my opinion too.[/quote]

Of course you are entitled to your opinion but in this case its a fact that you are incorrect. How fast you rotate in the air is not an element that is generally judged. You may prefer the jumps to be rotated fast but that is not a tie breaker if all things are equal. Sarah's landing edge is on that jump is better then any of Sasha's jumps. The amount of speed she takes in and out and generally she adds a 3 toe right after is wow. The amount of ice covered is great and the air position (for her) is very nice indeed. Sarah's 2a is shown in instructional videos. Nothing Sasha does is of that level yet, not even her spirals. Your opinion is colored and its is really disturbing the technical reality of the situation. I think Sasha's jumps are the best looking in the air but her landings are not all that great and her edges need work.

 

[AY2006]

Re: I don't go for loud presentatio and excitement

I have a few thoughts...

1. Sarah's double axel is her best jump, because most other jumps are flawed.

2. I love everything Sasha does above her ankle. Landing of her jumps is not one of the reasons I enjoy her skating. (I don't want all the "thrills" associated with it. I'd rather see a secure edge and smooth run out.)

3. Michelle's jumps may not have the greatest height or distance, but they look great because they are so well integrated into her programs.

4. If you really want to see a "natural jumper," find some old tapes of Midori Ito.

 

[VeryColdWater]

Re: I don't go for loud presentatio and excitement

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>4. If you really want to see a "natural jumper," find some old tapes of Midori Ito.[/quote]

Word. She was a one of a kind, the most talented jumper the sport has ever known.

 

[maxell1313]

Re: I don't go for loud presentatio and excitement

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Quote:4. If you really want to see a "natural jumper," find some old tapes of Midori Ito. Word. She was a one of a kind, the most talented jumper the sport has ever known.[/quote]

I think Ito was great, but Tonya Harding really *was* a good jumper...when she actually did get on the ice. She probably could have been one of the all-time greats if she'd had any kind of work ethic. What a waste of talent....

 

[maxell1313]

Re: I don't go for loud presentatio and excitement

ITA with everyone who says Sarah's double axel is a thing of beauty. Probably her best jump ever.

As far as Sasha's double axel...I refer you to this year's Nationals when she landed her axel on an inside edge instead of an outside edge. I have yet to figure out how she did that without breaking her ankle.

 

[Jimmy Hoffa 2]

Re: I don't go for loud presentatio and excitement

How do you land a jump with excitement? I suppose it could be exciting to see if a skater will actually stand up on one foot or to see them scramble to get on the correct edge. Does that mean a skater who does the jump correctly to begin with is boring? I wish all skaters would jump that boring.

 

[heyang]

Re: My Problem with Michelle Kwan and Sarah Hughes

Very nice analysis folks.

I tend to agree that Sasha has some wonky landings, but she's not the worst.

I think most would agree that Maria B was pretty bad at the landings. Very occasionally, she had some flow out of jumps. Most times, she would land with stiff knees and end up bending forward or falling. The woman definitely made me nervous and she's not even close to the top of my list of favorites.

 

[Lanternlight]

Re: My Problem with Michelle Kwan and Sarah Hughes

Definitely Maria's landings were some of the worst. She had nice style, but she always looked sooo stiff.

I can see Michelle not having the best height or speed into her jumps, but you can't argue the security of her landing edge. Though I guess waiting to see what will happen when Cohen lands would be more "exciting" given the uncertainty of the outcome. :evil: :lol:

 

[Yankees Suck 01]

Re: My Problem with Michelle Kwan and Sarah Hughes

Yes Michelle needs more height on her jumps but I seriously do not understand how anyone can have complaints with her landings. Just sit in the first 5 rows of a competition and listen to Michelle when she follows through on the landing of her jump. Not a sound to be heard.

 

[DORISPULASKI]

Re: My Problem with Michelle Kwan and Sarah Hughes

So true. When Michelle is on and skating in the zone, if you shut your eyes, you would never know anyone is skating, she is so quiet and flowing on the blade. And Michelle had a lot better height, especially in her lutzes, this year, than in the last couple years. The Feeling Begins at Worlds is my favortie ever Michelle SP.

To see what it is about Michelle's skating, go to a competition or one of the shows. She is one of those skaters who looks best live. For one thing, she has such powerful stroking that she is a lot faster than you would think.

If you watch Sasha skate live, she used to land with huge thumps and scratching, which takes away from the effect but you don't hear them on TV. But Sasha at World's this year was a lot better than Sasha at Nat's last year. And I expect and am looking forward to her being better next year.
She is a very determined and talented young lady, and if Elena Sokolova can have a breakthrough year at 23, there's plenty of time for Sasha to get her landings sorted out.
Elena used to land stiff and pitch forward all the time, but she sure does not do that any more!!!

dpp

 

[Kara Bear]

Re: My Problem with Michelle Kwan and Sarah Hughes

Are we going to spend the whole off season bickering over which lady is better?

 

[KwanFan1212]

Re: My Problem with Michelle Kwan and Sarah Hughes

^^^Evidently. :x <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/embarassed.gif ALT=""> <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/ohwell.gif ALT=":\"> :| <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/grin.gif ALT=" >D">

BTW-I just wanted to add my two cents about the difference in seeing skating in person and watching it on TV. There are SO many things you notice more in person that you do on TV. Michelle hardly makes any noise when she skates and that shows great edging, something Yuka Sato also does very well. I have seen both of these skaters live and it is very apparent how much control over edges they have on the ice. MKs jumps are so picture perfect most of the time that for someone to actually say that they are not is completely astounding to me. I have not seen Sasha skate live yet so I can't comment on her at all right now (seeing her this weekend) but I did see Sarah last year too and her 2A is a gorgeous jump. Just my two cents and a lot of other things that I wanted to say have all ready been said so I am done now.

 

[Ogre Mage]

Re: My Problem with Michelle Kwan and Sarah Hughes

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Sarah's 2a is shown in instructional videos. Nothing Sasha does is of that level yet, not even her spirals[/quote]
I wonder, though if Sasha's layback this year could be shown in instructional videos? If you look at her stretch, leg/foot position, speed, and centering she seems to have reached Nikodinov-like stature with this move.

 

[christinaskater]

WHY MICHELLE KWAN IS THE BEST

Michelle Kwan has no problem this yr i think lacking 3-3 combo is not a problem

AGAIN FIGURE SKATING IS NOT FIGURE JUMPING ITS NOT THE ONLY THING THAT MAKES IT A SPORT

Michelle has the best jumps in the business so steady and secure, the distance and height and rotations have improved so much this year,her jumps are so beautiful the preparation and checking of the landings are so amazing. Judges are blind not to acknowledge MK's jumps and consistency. Especially during the nationals everything was textbook perfect PERFECT

She has the best spiral overall aspect of it
2nd in extension but her back spiral in FOG is 180 i believe too
The edge and holding of her spirals are exquisite, she makes u believe she is superwoman she is flying because of the speed, strength and edge she achieves,


Spins are amazing this year, i like how she makes her moves the best, her layback maynot be classic but it looks better for me than the other layback spins

Her combination spins are so fast and centered, really excellent stretch and extensions

FOOTWORK No one touches her footwork in all of ladies skating simply the BEST.

Stag jumps, inas, spread eagles are the best for me, Ina is good but not the best

Artistry and musicality no one else comes close to her
Yukina Ota, S Cohen is R and Juliet, Fumie are the nearest but still far from Michelle

Speed has improved so much

Flow on ice- She is the best

Edging- She is the best

Competitive Fire, freedom, joy-She is still the best

Stage presence and acting ability and command of the audience is at par with Cohen and better in a lot of aspects She is the best

Consistency 5 out 5 this year thats it